Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Perseus_Stoned 03-30-07, 05:07 PM	How does the increased spell level benefit Paladins/Rangers/Bards? Found here. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedSpellCapacity) Do they switch over to the cleric/druid/wizard spell list for the next level (to determine the spells) or does it only allow superior metamagic feat application and extra spell slots for lower level spells? Or am I reading it wrong and it does something else?
Razorgrin 03-30-07, 05:18 PM	How does the increased spell level benefit Paladins/Rangers/Bards? Do they switch over to the cleric/druid/wizard spell list for the next level (to determine the spells) or does it only allow superior metamagic feat application and extra spell slots for lower level spells? Door #2; it only grants you higher-level slots, not new spells with which to fill them.
Perseus_Stoned 03-30-07, 05:22 PM	Door #2; it only grants you higher-level slots, not new spells with which to fill them. Are these higher level slots only useful for metamagic feats?
Razorgrin 03-30-07, 05:25 PM	Are these higher level slots only useful for metamagic feats? Unless you had some other ability to use them, yes. I don't recall if prep casters are allowed to fill high-level slots with lower-level spells; theoretically, you could just fill your slots with cure critical wounds and play post-battle cleanup. If you had another ability that required you to sacrifice spell slots to activate, you could use them for that. The Innate Spell feat starts to look much more attractive when your spell slots really aren't doing anything.
Perseus_Stoned 03-30-07, 05:30 PM	Unless you had some other ability to use them, yes. I don't recall if prep casters are allowed to fill high-level slots with lower-level spells; theoretically, you could just fill your slots with cure critical wounds and play post-battle cleanup. I believe I found wording to indicate this is the case. The Improved Spell Capacity feat allows characters to gain spell slots above 9th level (which can be used to hold lower-level spells or spells whose level has been increased beyond 9th by the use of metamagic feats). Unfortunately this feat seems hellbent on being available to all, yet tailored only to 9th level spells. Strict RAW interpretation says it won't work, but would everyone agree RAI would support this case?
ClementWillowbreaker 03-30-07, 05:37 PM	Lvl4 paladin spell with +1 metamagic vs Lvl9 wizard spell with +1 metamagic. Gee, I wonder which one is actually worth the feat? No one cares if paladins can take it- it doesn't do them much good.
Razorgrin 03-30-07, 05:49 PM	Lvl4 paladin spell with +1 metamagic vs Lvl9 wizard spell with +1 metamagic. Gee, I wonder which one is actually worth the feat? No one cares if paladins can take it- it doesn't do them much good. Well, the paladin could fill his slots with quickened energy admixtured maximized empowered meteoric strikes. I imagine whoever was on the receiving end of a couple dozen of those would care. :P
Perseus_Stoned 03-30-07, 05:52 PM	Lvl4 paladin spell with +1 metamagic vs Lvl9 wizard spell with +1 metamagic. Gee, I wonder which one is actually worth the feat? No one cares if paladins can take it- it doesn't do them much good. I'm not inquiring as to whether it would be viable, I'm inquiring as to whether it can legally be done. Please stay on topic.
runestar 03-30-07, 08:21 PM	It is the only way paladins and rangers can access epic spellcasting though. There might be a few ways of adding lv5+ spell to their spell list. I think there should be a prc or 2. Divine disciple for example, adds an extra domain. For paladins/rangers etc, those domain spells would be added to your spell list. Normally, you would be limited to 1-4 lv domain spells(since you only have up to 4th lv slots). But if you could get 5th lv and higher slots(such as via ISC), you could memorize those spells in said slots.:) It is possible to maximize the use of these slots, but it will take some effort.
ClementWillowbreaker 03-30-07, 09:39 PM	I'm not inquiring as to whether it would be viable, I'm inquiring as to whether it can legally be done. Please stay on topic. I am on topic. You asked how it benefited them. Others said it works just like clerics and wizards. And I was kind enough to mention that does not actually improve a paladin's ability to contribute to a fight. And Razor, after taking a feat 9(?) times to pay for the four other metamagic feats required for your idea, it deserves to be good.
Merestil Haye 03-30-07, 10:15 PM	I'm not inquiring as to whether it would be viable, I'm inquiring as to whether it can legally be done. Please stay on topic.Yes, it can legally be done. The Benefit section of the feat reads :Benefit When you select this feat, you gain one spell slot per day of any level up to one level higher than the highest-level spell you can already cast in a particular class. You must still have the requisite ability score (10 + spell level) in order to cast any spell stored in this slot. If you have a high enough ability modifier to gain one or more bonus spells for this spell level, you also gain the bonus spells for this spell level. You must use the spell slot as a member of the class in which you can already cast spells of the normal maximum spell level. There is nothing there that suggests this only grants a spell above 9th level, and it does not. The bit you quoted comes in a section headed "Spell Slots above 9th level" devoted to a discussion of the mechanics of these new levels of spellslot and specifically the bonus spells received for a high ability. The 3,0 FAQ discusses how a Bard can qualify for Epic Spellcasting - by taking Improved Spell Capacity multiple times so he or she can cast 9th level spells. The spell slots provided by ISC act like any other. A caster can always use them to cast a lower-level spell, and they may be used to cast metamagic-enhanced spells.
Razorgrin 03-31-07, 04:48 PM	And Razor, after taking a feat 9(?) times to pay for the four other metamagic feats required for your idea, it deserves to be good. Yeah, that's a case of me being an idiot. I haven't cracked my ELH since about two weeks after it came out, so I'd forgotten you had to take ISC once for each higher level you wanted to unlock. Never mind.