Improved Two-Weapon Fighting [Archive] - Wizards Community

Improved Two-Weapon Fighting [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Castle_Black
03-02-07, 01:23 PM Greetings All,

We have been running the new 3.5 campaign for a few months now and I have two rangers that are of sufficient level to get the improved two-weapon fighting feat. They are all interested, of course, in doing as much damage as possible if needed. With the extra off-hand attack, does the -5 penalty stack with the penalty that you have to take with two-weapon fighting, or is that -5 the total penalty for the second off-hand attack?

For example, Morrolo (6th level ranger) with longsword and light mace with the two-weapon fighting feat has a penalty of -2/-2 (chart from pg. 180 PHB) when attacking with two weapons. If he does a full attack and uses the improved two-weapon fighting feat for his second off-hand attack, will his penalty be -5 or is it a total of -7? (using the light mace)

To continue with the previous example, when these rangers are high enough level to gain greater two-weapon fighting, that feat states the penalty is -10 for the third off-hand attack. Will that third off-hand attack carry a total penalty of -10 or -12? (again using the light mace)

Thank you for any help you can give on this matter!

Castle
Zherog
03-02-07, 01:29 PM Let's say our 6th level ranger has a +6 to attacks before any penalties (that is, a +6 BAB and no other modifiers). His BAB entitles him to two attacks, at +6/+1.

If he fights with two weapons (and only considering the Two-Weapon Fighting feat), he would attack at +4/-1 with his primary hand and +4 with his off-hand.

Adding in Improved Two-Weapon Fighting grants a second attack with the off-hand. He would attack at +4/-1 with his primary hand and +4/-1 with his off-hand.
Ranger REG
03-02-07, 07:23 PM Greetings All,

We have been running the new 3.5 campaign for a few months now and I have two rangers that are of sufficient level to get the improved two-weapon fighting feat. They are all interested, of course, in doing as much damage as possible if needed. With the extra off-hand attack, does the -5 penalty stack with the penalty that you have to take with two-weapon fighting, or is that -5 the total penalty for the second off-hand attack?
It stacks. 3.5e clarifies this so that your off-hand attacks and attack bonuses mirrors that of your primary hand attacks and attack bonuses, respectively.
Castle_Black
03-05-07, 10:07 AM Adding in Improved Two-Weapon Fighting grants a second attack with the off-hand. He would attack at +4/-1 with his primary hand and +4/-1 with his off-hand.[/QUOTE]

Zherog,

I'm a little confused still. I now understand that the off-hand attack takes the highest bonus on the first attack, just like the primary hand. But wouldn't the ranger attack at +4/-1 with his primary hand and +4/-6 with his off-hand? (because the second off-hand attack carries the additional -5 penalty on top of the -2 for fighting with two weapons)

Thanks again for your help,

Castle
Puca
03-05-07, 10:20 AM With normal, non-two-weapon fighting, your second (iterative) attack is at -5 from your normal, initial attack. (When your BAB is +6 your second, iterative, attack is at -5 from that: +1.) The wording of Improved TWF is weird, but thats all it is trying to communicate: -5 from your normal attack bonus. Zherogs numbers are correct.
Zherog
03-05-07, 11:09 AM What Puca said is accurate. Especially the part about me being correct. :D
crowclub
03-05-07, 01:14 PM Both of the extra attacks use your full BAB. The first at -2 and the second at -7.

So whatever your primary hand's attack bonuses are with I2WF, your extra attacks mimic those bonuses exactly.
Castle_Black
03-23-07, 04:48 PM Gentlemen,

Thank you for your help! We are playing again this weekend and your information will be put to good use.

Castle
I_Poke_The_Darkness
03-24-07, 03:02 AM How does the attacks work with 4 swords? :fight!:
I am making a new character starting with an ECL of 3. I want a fun and playable character that can hold his own in a low magic, high psychic campaign. The other people are a scout/ranger, druid, telepath, psychic warrior. I am looking at being a thrikreen and going for weapon mastery.

1) I know that you cant be thrikreen at level three, but my DM is letting me start with only one level in thrikreen and the other two as level adjustment, and next level I have to talk the other level of thrikreen.

2) I have never played a character that uses two weapons or gets multiple attacks so I am not sure how this works, but if I am a ranger the Multiweapon Fighting replaces the Two Weapon Fighting. The Multiweapon feats require a higher base attack then the Two weapon fighting, so how would it work? Ranger gets Improved Two Weapon at level 6 but Improved Multiweapon needs base attack + 9, so would you get the Feat and just not be able to use it or would I get it early?
“A 6th-level ranger who has chosen the two-weapon combat style is treated as having Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, even if he does not have the prerequisites for it, but only when he is wearing light or no armor.”
And
“This feat replaces the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms.”

3) What class should he be? Would it be better to go with the ranger and (maybe) get the multiweapon feats sooner or would it be better to go with a fighter to get the weapon specialization and a lot of other feats? Or I could go as a Psychic Warrior? What prestige classes would help to make him better with 4 swords, or should he just be straight ranger or fighter?

3) Looking at the weapons I was going to go with short sword in order to only have -2 to hit from multiweapons. My thought is that -2 to hit and d6 damage is better then -4 to hit and 1d8 damage because I can get power attack so if I want to do more damage my short swords could be – 4 to hit and d6+2. Any thoughts on weapon choice?

4) What feats would people go with? I know that I will want the Multiweapon feats and things like power attack, weapon specialization and (if it makes all my weapons better, psychic weapon)

I know this is a lot of things, but any input will help.
kalstrand
03-24-07, 01:21 PM You can't Power Attack with a light weapon so short sword and Power Attack are useless together.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Castle_Black 03-02-07, 01:23 PM	Greetings All, We have been running the new 3.5 campaign for a few months now and I have two rangers that are of sufficient level to get the improved two-weapon fighting feat. They are all interested, of course, in doing as much damage as possible if needed. With the extra off-hand attack, does the -5 penalty stack with the penalty that you have to take with two-weapon fighting, or is that -5 the total penalty for the second off-hand attack? For example, Morrolo (6th level ranger) with longsword and light mace with the two-weapon fighting feat has a penalty of -2/-2 (chart from pg. 180 PHB) when attacking with two weapons. If he does a full attack and uses the improved two-weapon fighting feat for his second off-hand attack, will his penalty be -5 or is it a total of -7? (using the light mace) To continue with the previous example, when these rangers are high enough level to gain greater two-weapon fighting, that feat states the penalty is -10 for the third off-hand attack. Will that third off-hand attack carry a total penalty of -10 or -12? (again using the light mace) Thank you for any help you can give on this matter! Castle
Zherog 03-02-07, 01:29 PM	Let's say our 6th level ranger has a +6 to attacks before any penalties (that is, a +6 BAB and no other modifiers). His BAB entitles him to two attacks, at +6/+1. If he fights with two weapons (and only considering the Two-Weapon Fighting feat), he would attack at +4/-1 with his primary hand and +4 with his off-hand. Adding in Improved Two-Weapon Fighting grants a second attack with the off-hand. He would attack at +4/-1 with his primary hand and +4/-1 with his off-hand.
Ranger REG 03-02-07, 07:23 PM	Greetings All, We have been running the new 3.5 campaign for a few months now and I have two rangers that are of sufficient level to get the improved two-weapon fighting feat. They are all interested, of course, in doing as much damage as possible if needed. With the extra off-hand attack, does the -5 penalty stack with the penalty that you have to take with two-weapon fighting, or is that -5 the total penalty for the second off-hand attack? It stacks. 3.5e clarifies this so that your off-hand attacks and attack bonuses mirrors that of your primary hand attacks and attack bonuses, respectively.
Castle_Black 03-05-07, 10:07 AM	Adding in Improved Two-Weapon Fighting grants a second attack with the off-hand. He would attack at +4/-1 with his primary hand and +4/-1 with his off-hand.[/QUOTE] Zherog, I'm a little confused still. I now understand that the off-hand attack takes the highest bonus on the first attack, just like the primary hand. But wouldn't the ranger attack at +4/-1 with his primary hand and +4/-6 with his off-hand? (because the second off-hand attack carries the additional -5 penalty on top of the -2 for fighting with two weapons) Thanks again for your help, Castle
Puca 03-05-07, 10:20 AM	With normal, non-two-weapon fighting, your second (iterative) attack is at -5 from your normal, initial attack. (When your BAB is +6 your second, iterative, attack is at -5 from that: +1.) The wording of Improved TWF is weird, but thats all it is trying to communicate: -5 from your normal attack bonus. Zherogs numbers are correct.
Zherog 03-05-07, 11:09 AM	What Puca said is accurate. Especially the part about me being correct. :D
crowclub 03-05-07, 01:14 PM	Both of the extra attacks use your full BAB. The first at -2 and the second at -7. So whatever your primary hand's attack bonuses are with I2WF, your extra attacks mimic those bonuses exactly.
Castle_Black 03-23-07, 04:48 PM	Gentlemen, Thank you for your help! We are playing again this weekend and your information will be put to good use. Castle
I_Poke_The_Darkness 03-24-07, 03:02 AM	How does the attacks work with 4 swords? :fight!: I am making a new character starting with an ECL of 3. I want a fun and playable character that can hold his own in a low magic, high psychic campaign. The other people are a scout/ranger, druid, telepath, psychic warrior. I am looking at being a thrikreen and going for weapon mastery. 1) I know that you cant be thrikreen at level three, but my DM is letting me start with only one level in thrikreen and the other two as level adjustment, and next level I have to talk the other level of thrikreen. 2) I have never played a character that uses two weapons or gets multiple attacks so I am not sure how this works, but if I am a ranger the Multiweapon Fighting replaces the Two Weapon Fighting. The Multiweapon feats require a higher base attack then the Two weapon fighting, so how would it work? Ranger gets Improved Two Weapon at level 6 but Improved Multiweapon needs base attack + 9, so would you get the Feat and just not be able to use it or would I get it early? “A 6th-level ranger who has chosen the two-weapon combat style is treated as having Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, even if he does not have the prerequisites for it, but only when he is wearing light or no armor.” And “This feat replaces the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms.” 3) What class should he be? Would it be better to go with the ranger and (maybe) get the multiweapon feats sooner or would it be better to go with a fighter to get the weapon specialization and a lot of other feats? Or I could go as a Psychic Warrior? What prestige classes would help to make him better with 4 swords, or should he just be straight ranger or fighter? 3) Looking at the weapons I was going to go with short sword in order to only have -2 to hit from multiweapons. My thought is that -2 to hit and d6 damage is better then -4 to hit and 1d8 damage because I can get power attack so if I want to do more damage my short swords could be – 4 to hit and d6+2. Any thoughts on weapon choice? 4) What feats would people go with? I know that I will want the Multiweapon feats and things like power attack, weapon specialization and (if it makes all my weapons better, psychic weapon) I know this is a lot of things, but any input will help.
kalstrand 03-24-07, 01:21 PM	You can't Power Attack with a light weapon so short sword and Power Attack are useless together.