Increasing CL for Dispel Magic (PEACH) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Increasing CL for Dispel Magic (PEACH) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Stickyfingers
08-16-07, 12:27 AM A friend of mine is preparing a Drow campaign and I am working on building a Warlock with Voracious Dispelling. The main point of the build is to have Dispel magic at will since its an invocation, and to use it as a counterspell. A main feature of this build if you will. And I am wondering if there is a way to increase the CL for the Dispel Checks.

Warlock 6/Duskblade 14 is what I am going for. I mean if I have to just go Warlock to 20 I guess that's what I have to do, but I am looking for an alternative.

As I understand the rules, I only get the Warlock levels added to the Dispel Check, and therefore my check for a targeted Dispel check would look like this:

1D20+6 (warlock CL) vs. DC=11+CL of spell being dispelled.

Assuming I go standard class progression as to not incur an xp penalty while leveling at least to 6th level. It will take me until level 11 to arrive at Warlock 6 / Duskblade 5 where I will pick up Voracious Dispelling as my Least Invocation.

This starts me out with 1D20+6 vs. DC 22=11+CL(the level of the spellcaster who cast the spell lets assume its equal to mine as a base and then its 11)

If my math above is right I will start out with a 25% chance to roll high enough to dispel magic that is equal to my level. And it will be reduced for every +1 CL above my own by 5%. With this holding true by level 15 I will have a 5% chance, only succeeding on a roll of 20. And that is only against an equal level caster. Above level 15 it will be impossible to dispel or counter anything.

So I am looking for a way to increase my CL for the dispel check to where at least it will be usable up until level 20. And also give Voracious Dispelling and the Dispel Magic spell in general a few more levels of longevity.

Note: Practiced Spellcaster wont help because they are both Spellcasting classes and you have to have HD in a non spellcasting class to gain the bonus to your CL. And Elven Spell Lore from PHBII is not enough of a bonus and has a higher Prereq.

I am not sure if there is anything published or not similar to this, but how is this for a Feat:

Practiced Dispeller
You are an adept at unraveling and counterspelling the magic of other spellcasters.
Prerequisites: Caster level 5, Spellcraft 8 ranks
Benefits: You gain a bonus to your caster level for Dispel checks. Increase your caster level by 1 for every 3 class levels (max +6) you obtain for the purposes of dispelling or counterspelling another's ongoing effects or the magical abilities of items they carry.

Special: Only Arcane and Divine caster levels count in the total for determining the bonus to the caster level check. A Warlock's invocation can be used for a dispel check if this feat is taken. This is an exception to the rule that spell-like abilities cannot be counterspelled, or may they be used to counterspell. The bonus to caster level may raise the check bonus above the normal +10 maximum.

Example: My warlock 6 / Duskblade 5 would have a 1D20+9 roll starting out. 6 from the Warlock level and then a +3 bonus from having this feat.

So please critique/offer suggestions. And yes, I've looked using Search and it didn't come up with anything concrete to go by and so I decided to post a Feat idea instead.

Thanks a bunch!
SF
tarkin
08-16-07, 10:15 AM You are wrong that you 'have to have class levels in a non-spellcasting class'.

While that is in general a good rule of thumb it is not true.

For example, if you are 5 Wizard/5 cleric, Practisced Spellcaster (Wizard) will let you have an effective caster level of 9 for wizard.

Practices Spellcaster WILl help you.

-----------

Your proposed Practiced Dispeller is abusive.
One of the key things that shows this is it uses the typical "per level increase' that so many abusive feats do.

Feats generally do NOT increase when your level goes up. You are supposed to instead get the "Greater" version of the feat.

Prestige Class abilities/Class abilities are things that go up with your level.

More importantly, it is not limited by the creature's HD, the way Practisced Spellcaster is. That means a pure wizard can take it and come away with a huge Dispelling bonus.
Stickyfingers
08-16-07, 10:47 AM Thanks for the reply. It was informative and I missed that part in practiced spellcaster about the classes, thanks again. It was really late when I decided to post this thread lol

So let me revise:

Practiced Dispeller
You are an adept at unraveling and counterspelling the magic of other spellcasters.

Prerequisites: Caster level 5, Spellcraft 8 ranks
Benefits: You gain a bonus to your caster level for Dispel checks. Increase your caster level by 2 for the purposes of dispelling or counterspelling another's ongoing effects or the magical abilities of items they carry. This feat stacks with other feats that raise ones caster level for dispel checks.

Special: A Warlock's invocation can be used for a dispel check if this feat is taken. This is an exception to the rule that spell-like abilities cannot be counterspelled, or may they be used to counterspell. The bonus to caster level may exceed the normal +10 maximum for purposes of the dispel check.

And:

Greater Practiced Dispeller
You are an adept at unraveling and counterspelling the magic of other spellcasters.

Prerequisites: Practiced Dispeller
Benefits: You gain a bonus to your caster level for Dispel checks. Increase your caster level by 2 for the purposes of dispelling or counterspelling another's ongoing effects or the magical abilities of items they carry. This bonus stacks with the one from Practiced Dispeller and other feats that raise ones caster level for dispel checks.

Special: A Warlock's invocation can be used for a dispel check if this feat is taken. This is an exception to the rule that spell-like abilities cannot be counterspelled, or may they be used to counterspell. The bonus to caster level may exceed the normal +10 maximum for purposes of the dispel check.

This should erase all signs of abuse, put a cap on the check bonus, but still allow it to be used in the calculations for the dispel checks.

SF
Stickyfingers
08-16-07, 11:24 AM More importantly, it is not limited by the creature's HD, the way Practiced* Spellcaster is. That means a pure wizard can take it and come away with a huge Dispelling bonus.
*fixed spelling in quote :D

Actually it is limited as the Prereq requires a caster level of 5. So in essence, a player could not take this feat until level 6 unless they had a way to get a bonus feat of their choice at level 5. The same goes for the Greater version, one has to have the first one.

And now how I revised it. It only adds so much per feat to the caster check to not be abusive. But still allows the feat to be viable when the characters level exceeds level 10 in the case of a pure caster.

SF
tarkin
08-16-07, 11:33 AM As written now, these feats look fair. I would have no problem allowing them in any game.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Stickyfingers 08-16-07, 12:27 AM	A friend of mine is preparing a Drow campaign and I am working on building a Warlock with Voracious Dispelling. The main point of the build is to have Dispel magic at will since its an invocation, and to use it as a counterspell. A main feature of this build if you will. And I am wondering if there is a way to increase the CL for the Dispel Checks. Warlock 6/Duskblade 14 is what I am going for. I mean if I have to just go Warlock to 20 I guess that's what I have to do, but I am looking for an alternative. As I understand the rules, I only get the Warlock levels added to the Dispel Check, and therefore my check for a targeted Dispel check would look like this: 1D20+6 (warlock CL) vs. DC=11+CL of spell being dispelled. Assuming I go standard class progression as to not incur an xp penalty while leveling at least to 6th level. It will take me until level 11 to arrive at Warlock 6 / Duskblade 5 where I will pick up Voracious Dispelling as my Least Invocation. This starts me out with 1D20+6 vs. DC 22=11+CL(the level of the spellcaster who cast the spell lets assume its equal to mine as a base and then its 11) If my math above is right I will start out with a 25% chance to roll high enough to dispel magic that is equal to my level. And it will be reduced for every +1 CL above my own by 5%. With this holding true by level 15 I will have a 5% chance, only succeeding on a roll of 20. And that is only against an equal level caster. Above level 15 it will be impossible to dispel or counter anything. So I am looking for a way to increase my CL for the dispel check to where at least it will be usable up until level 20. And also give Voracious Dispelling and the Dispel Magic spell in general a few more levels of longevity. Note: Practiced Spellcaster wont help because they are both Spellcasting classes and you have to have HD in a non spellcasting class to gain the bonus to your CL. And Elven Spell Lore from PHBII is not enough of a bonus and has a higher Prereq. I am not sure if there is anything published or not similar to this, but how is this for a Feat: Practiced Dispeller You are an adept at unraveling and counterspelling the magic of other spellcasters. Prerequisites: Caster level 5, Spellcraft 8 ranks Benefits: You gain a bonus to your caster level for Dispel checks. Increase your caster level by 1 for every 3 class levels (max +6) you obtain for the purposes of dispelling or counterspelling another's ongoing effects or the magical abilities of items they carry. Special: Only Arcane and Divine caster levels count in the total for determining the bonus to the caster level check. A Warlock's invocation can be used for a dispel check if this feat is taken. This is an exception to the rule that spell-like abilities cannot be counterspelled, or may they be used to counterspell. The bonus to caster level may raise the check bonus above the normal +10 maximum. Example: My warlock 6 / Duskblade 5 would have a 1D20+9 roll starting out. 6 from the Warlock level and then a +3 bonus from having this feat. So please critique/offer suggestions. And yes, I've looked using Search and it didn't come up with anything concrete to go by and so I decided to post a Feat idea instead. Thanks a bunch! SF
tarkin 08-16-07, 10:15 AM	You are wrong that you 'have to have class levels in a non-spellcasting class'. While that is in general a good rule of thumb it is not true. For example, if you are 5 Wizard/5 cleric, Practisced Spellcaster (Wizard) will let you have an effective caster level of 9 for wizard. Practices Spellcaster WILl help you. ----------- Your proposed Practiced Dispeller is abusive. One of the key things that shows this is it uses the typical "per level increase' that so many abusive feats do. Feats generally do NOT increase when your level goes up. You are supposed to instead get the "Greater" version of the feat. Prestige Class abilities/Class abilities are things that go up with your level. More importantly, it is not limited by the creature's HD, the way Practisced Spellcaster is. That means a pure wizard can take it and come away with a huge Dispelling bonus.
Stickyfingers 08-16-07, 10:47 AM	Thanks for the reply. It was informative and I missed that part in practiced spellcaster about the classes, thanks again. It was really late when I decided to post this thread lol So let me revise: Practiced Dispeller You are an adept at unraveling and counterspelling the magic of other spellcasters. Prerequisites: Caster level 5, Spellcraft 8 ranks Benefits: You gain a bonus to your caster level for Dispel checks. Increase your caster level by 2 for the purposes of dispelling or counterspelling another's ongoing effects or the magical abilities of items they carry. This feat stacks with other feats that raise ones caster level for dispel checks. Special: A Warlock's invocation can be used for a dispel check if this feat is taken. This is an exception to the rule that spell-like abilities cannot be counterspelled, or may they be used to counterspell. The bonus to caster level may exceed the normal +10 maximum for purposes of the dispel check. And: Greater Practiced Dispeller You are an adept at unraveling and counterspelling the magic of other spellcasters. Prerequisites: Practiced Dispeller Benefits: You gain a bonus to your caster level for Dispel checks. Increase your caster level by 2 for the purposes of dispelling or counterspelling another's ongoing effects or the magical abilities of items they carry. This bonus stacks with the one from Practiced Dispeller and other feats that raise ones caster level for dispel checks. Special: A Warlock's invocation can be used for a dispel check if this feat is taken. This is an exception to the rule that spell-like abilities cannot be counterspelled, or may they be used to counterspell. The bonus to caster level may exceed the normal +10 maximum for purposes of the dispel check. This should erase all signs of abuse, put a cap on the check bonus, but still allow it to be used in the calculations for the dispel checks. SF
Stickyfingers 08-16-07, 11:24 AM	More importantly, it is not limited by the creature's HD, the way Practiced* Spellcaster is. That means a pure wizard can take it and come away with a huge Dispelling bonus. *fixed spelling in quote :D Actually it is limited as the Prereq requires a caster level of 5. So in essence, a player could not take this feat until level 6 unless they had a way to get a bonus feat of their choice at level 5. The same goes for the Greater version, one has to have the first one. And now how I revised it. It only adds so much per feat to the caster check to not be abusive. But still allows the feat to be viable when the characters level exceeds level 10 in the case of a pure caster. SF
tarkin 08-16-07, 11:33 AM	As written now, these feats look fair. I would have no problem allowing them in any game.