Post/Author/DateTime	Post
infideli 11-12-07, 10:03 AM	Do increased intelligence bonuses grant skill points only for new levels attained or do they count retro-actively as well? I could not find it in the SRD, but my 3.0 group (of rules lawyers) said the points were retroactive. Official rulings, please. G
CrazyOzzy 11-12-07, 10:11 AM	They are not retroactive, in 3.5 at least, sorry. No idea about 3.0, never played it. You may house rule it so if you prefer, you could explain it by the fact that because you are more intelligent, your capacity for learning and your learning speed increase and you "catch-up" on all the things you could have learned before. For me, as a DM thinking about his players, it is one of those things that I would maybe implement but am always too afraid to do so. No retroactive skill points, unlike HP when CON goes up, forces a character to place his INT as high as he wants it from the start instead of planning to place his stat augments in it, which limits his other stats (in case of melee characters for example).
Eerongal 11-12-07, 10:13 AM	im like 90% sure that 3.0 worked the same way, no retroactive skill points. But it's been years since my last 3.0 game.
Merestil Haye 11-12-07, 10:20 AM	Far from being retroactive in 3,0, skill point increases were deferred. You did not gain extra skill points for increasing Int until the level after the increase. A char with 15 Int who raised it to 16 at 4th level got increased skill points from 5th. In 3.5 the character would have the extra skill point immediately (ie at 4th). Neither version of the game allowed retroactive adjustment of skill points.
infideli 11-12-07, 10:26 AM	Thanks for the responses. Allowing it to be retroactive keeps bookkeeping and audits easier. I just had to draw a matrix to count my skill points, a column for class, racail bonus, and intelligence at each level and try to remember when I boosted which stat and when my intelligence item was also boosted. In real life, I think it would be retroactive. I remember having a difficult time doing trigonometry and calculus, but after aging, traveling and experiencing different things, learning new languages... virtually everything I had attempted to learn before suddenly cleared and I got 96% in advanced math with a poor teacher when I had 78% with a good teacher. It was like the lessons I had almost learned suddenly became crystal clear. But a ruling is a ruling and a game is a game! (though I don't see why one stat would behave mechanically different than another stat... Con vs. Int) G
danste01 11-12-07, 10:28 AM	I don't know for 3.0 but 3.5 player handbook p 10 "She does not retroactively get additional points for her previous levels (that is, skill points she would have gained if she had had an Intelligence score of 16 starting at 1st level)." I don't like this.
runestar 11-12-07, 10:40 AM	I remember having a difficult time doing trigonometry and calculus, but after aging, traveling and experiencing different things, learning new languages... virtually everything I had attempted to learn before suddenly cleared and I got 96% in advanced math with a poor teacher when I had 78% with a good teacher. In game terms, that could be the result of your increased int resulting in an improved int modifier which in turn boosts your relevant skill check, rather than you having more skill points to play around with and assign to the appropriate skill. Likewise, it appears to make book-keeping easier only if you plan on playing a wizard at a higher lv. This way, you can quickly calculate your total skill points by using the formula [new int*(HD+3)], rather than having to note the thresholds where your int reaches the next even number and calculate the difference. I think dragons were allowed this specific exception for such a reason. If you were playing your wizard from scratch, it should be no hassle at all, apart from the eyesore of seeing the odd skill here and there with a few ranks in it.
Nom 11-12-07, 03:26 PM	Hit points and Con changes aren't "retroactive". It works the same way as an attack bonus or skill bonus: you calculate the final value based on whatever your score is at the time. If your ability score changes then the value immediately changes. In the case of hit points, it's rolled hp + HD*Con. In contrast, Skill points do not instantaneously change when Int changes. Putting on a headband of intellect doesn't grant points; getting hit by feeblemind doesn't remove skill points. Skill points are awarded when you increase in level and are thereafter fixed.
risner 11-12-07, 07:52 PM	Do increased intelligence bonuses grant skill points only for new levels attained or do they count retro-actively as well? Official ruling is only levels gained after the permanent increase in INT.
StevenO 11-12-07, 07:54 PM	Your group of Rule-Lawyers are trying to pull a fast one an break the RAW. In 3.5 there is ONE exception I can think of that retroactively increases skill points with a higher INT. The exception is for true Dragons which always get INT x (HD+3) bonus skill points. The reasons for that are Dragons are normally played as NPCs thus making it MUCH easier to figure out skill points for older dragons; previously a wyrmling earns skill points at a different rate than an ancient dragon. The second reason for a dragon retroactively getting skills for their age based INT increases is because it is assumed they learned something in all those years.
Airos 11-16-07, 04:32 AM	Thanks for the responses. Allowing it to be retroactive keeps bookkeeping and audits easier. I just had to draw a matrix to count my skill points, a column for class, racail bonus, and intelligence at each level and try to remember when I boosted which stat and when my intelligence item was also boosted. In real life, I think it would be retroactive. I remember having a difficult time doing trigonometry and calculus, but after aging, traveling and experiencing different things, learning new languages... virtually everything I had attempted to learn before suddenly cleared and I got 96% in advanced math with a poor teacher when I had 78% with a good teacher. It was like the lessons I had almost learned suddenly became crystal clear. But a ruling is a ruling and a game is a game! (though I don't see why one stat would behave mechanically different than another stat... Con vs. Int) G Int represents your characters capacity to learn. Con represents how healthy your character is right now. When you're 19 years old, in college and failing calculus you don't get to automatically "learn" advanced math when you're 26 just because you've increased your I.Q.. You can, however, use the extra "skill points" you gain from the increased int to go back and re-study the areas you weren't good at earlier in life. You said yourself, with a higher I.Q. you could learn the math skills that escaped you before. Con, on the other hand, doesn't have much bearing on how healthy you were before. At the age of 10 it's most likely your going to be about as healthy as all the other 10 year olds. As the years go on your con can improve or it can worsen. Perhaps you've taken up sports and a healthy diet, improving your con, granting you more stamina and an increased ability to survive in a fight. Conversely you could have taken up smoking and a diet of fast food, decreasing your con. Either way this doesn't have any affect on how healthy you where when you were 10, only on how healthy you are now. So, yeah, that's my take on why int increases don't work retroactively.