Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bkdubs123 07-04-07, 07:17 PM	Why are there no feats that allow a fighter to take advantage of any intelligence score higher than 13? It's crap! I'm making a really cool Fighter whose seeking to become a Nightsong Enforcer who prides himself on his 18 intelligence. BUT I've looked through every book I own and there is no feat that requires intelligence over 13. He is a master of tactical movement, a great grappler, and even better at performing devastating bull rushes (dungeon crasher substitution levels). The problem is, he has this huge brain and no way to take tactical advantage of it. I'm thinking there could be a feat that allowed for a special Appraise check. Maybe the feat could be called Appraise Prowess, and allow the fighter to look an enemy over and determine their skill or something while simultaneously getting some morale bonus, or lower the opponent's morale. Perhaps there could also be a special Knowledge based feat. Not sure what kind of knowledge, maybe History or Warfare. Something that would allow the fighter to gain some sort of tactical advatage. Finally, I'm just going to create a few tactical feats that require a high Intelligence. One with 15 and one with 17. Basically, I really want to see if there are any other feats out there, homebrewed or houseruled, that anyone here has created.
Irbian 07-05-07, 09:00 AM	I think that exists a feat that grants your int bonus to your atacks, but... I'm not sure..
TheDragonmaster 07-05-07, 10:46 AM	I think that exists a feat that grants your int bonus to your atacks, but... I'm not sure.. Yes, but it A) is an Epic Feat and B) replaces Str to Attacks... it is 3.5, as it is in CW, if I'm not terribly mistaken (can be).
Werral 07-05-07, 10:54 AM	Skill tricks. MOre Int=more skill points so More skill tricks.
DrRufio 07-05-07, 11:26 AM	B) replaces Str to Attacks... it is 3.5, as it is in CW, if I'm not terribly mistaken (can be). That is not a feat though, the swashbuckler class allows this as a class skill at level 3 i think.
jaelis 07-05-07, 11:32 AM	I'm with Werral. With a high Int, you get lots of skills and skill tricks. That's how you should be taking advantage of the high Int. Yes, it's a bummer everything good is cross-class, but you'll still be able to do a lot of things a regular fighter can't. You might also check out the "Stat X to Bonus Y (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=320889)" thread.
mostholy2 07-05-07, 11:52 AM	Warblade from ToB also has some nice uses for high INT with battle clarity, ardor, cunning, skill and mastery and works nicely to complement the fighter. It probably fits better to what you are looking for (using his INT to improve his combat prowess) and doesn't limit you to using light weapons like the insightful strike from the swashbuckler.I'm thinking there could be a feat that allowed for a special Appraise check. Maybe the feat could be called Appraise Prowess, and allow the fighter to look an enemy over and determine their skill or something while simultaneously getting some morale bonus, or lower the opponent's morale.The feat closest to what you are describing may be Combat Intuition in CAdv. It lets you do an assess opponent check (using sense motive skill). If successful, you gain a +1 insight bonus to attacks vs. that opponent.
wonlee76 07-05-07, 01:47 PM	Why are there no feats that allow a fighter to take advantage of any intelligence score higher than 13? Maybe its just me but doesn't Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm and Improved Trip count as feats where a fighter takes advantage of an intelligence score of higher than 13? Tack on the feats in CW such as Karmic Strike (which requires Combat Expertise as a pre-req I believe) and you got a handful of decent feats that require a decent Int score to take advantage of.
bkdubs123 07-05-07, 02:08 PM	@Werral: Ah, yes, I hadn't even thought of skill tricks. I'll look my character sheet over again and see what I can do. @Mostholy2: Yes, the Warblade works nicely for the intelligence end, but doesn't help me get toward my goal of Nightsong Enforcer at all. His next few levels are going to be spent in the Streetfighter class to get the necessary skill ranks. During these levels I should also be able to pick up some nifty skill tricks. I guess I'll just have to go ahead and continue with developing some tactical feats that actually require a tactical mind to y'know... perform them. lol.
mostholy2 07-05-07, 03:26 PM	@Mostholy2: Yes, the Warblade works nicely for the intelligence end, but doesn't help me get toward my goal of Nightsong Enforcer at all. His next few levels are going to be spent in the Streetfighter class to get the necessary skill ranks. During these levels I should also be able to pick up some nifty skill tricks.I haven't really looked at Streetfighter, but my impression of the class is that it was not one of the better ones out there. That being said, I am assuming that you are trying to get a PrC (no multi-class XP penalty) that gives full BAB progression (good combat progression) while still having "hide" and "move silently" (meet NgtSgEnforcer pre-reqs) as in-class skills. Since you probably already meet the BAB req. for NtSgEnf, I would recommend if you haven't taken rogue class levels to do so. You lose out on using one of your multi-classing classes and BAB progression, but you gain way more than enough skills to meet the pre-reqs and evasion at level 2.
bkdubs123 07-05-07, 04:04 PM	Streetfighter is subpar at best, yes, but I really like its stand tough class feature, and I don't want to go into rogue. Let's not discuss my build however, and try to stay on the topic of combat oriented feats for an intelligent character.
mostholy2 07-05-07, 04:39 PM	Sure thing. It's all mostly flavor anyways. There really isn't much (or anything I can think of) feat-wise that you can really use your INT modifier to improve your combat effectiveness. I agree with wonlee76 that the closest thing to it would be any feats that require the combat expertise feat (ie. improved trip, disarm, feint, karmic strike, defensive strike, defensive throw, imp. CE, quickstaff).
dknight100 07-05-07, 05:03 PM	Although you don't want to discuss your build, 3 levels of swashbuckler would be immensely worth your while. You wont lose out on bab or hp, and you'll get some alright powers, free weapon finesse, and +int to damage, in addition to your str. With your int, thats +4 damage, very, very nice.
bkdubs123 07-05-07, 11:35 PM	He's not a finesse fighter. He's a smart thug. Think about any of those Italian Job, Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels, criminal movies. He's strong, tough, and smart. He power attacks and Bull Rushes, he doesn't want disarm or trip attacks he just wants some way to get a tactical advantage in battle. I hope I'm not coming across as whiny, because I truly feel like there is a gross lack in this department. There's tons of published feats and even homebrew feats for a melee-er to use taking advantage of a high score in every stat except intelligence. I'll try to spend some time tonight coming up with a few feats of my own.
FponkDamn 07-06-07, 01:00 AM	Aside from Skill Tricks, which really, really help out any fighter, there's one feat you should absolutely consider: Knowledge Devotion (out of Complete Champion). I play a Factotum/Fighter with this feat and it's very, very awesome (it's not, strictly speaking, a fighter-feat; you'd have to use one of your normal character level feats to get it, but it's still way worth it). Knowledge devotion gives you one knowledge as a class skill, and lets you translate checks of that skill to identify monsters directly into attack and damage bonuses, based on how well you do. My char has all six knowledges that identify monsters (arcana, nature, dungeoneering, religion, planes, local) and the Collector of Stories skill trick (bonus on knowledge checks to identify monsters) so he always gets a huge bonus, no matter the type. Even with only getting one knowledge as a class skill, the collector of stories trick will make every check better, and the minimum bonus for the Knowledge Devotion feat is +1, so it's never a bust. And Knowledge is Int-based. Plus more skill points = better Knowledge check. So if you're a thug, pick Knowledge: Local and bash to bits any humanoids you come across. - Johnny
bkdubs123 07-06-07, 03:24 AM	Hmm. Interesting. I'll have to check that out. Thanks. Basically its like the Archivist's class feature then?
FponkDamn 07-07-07, 01:05 PM	Similar, though not as versatile. It doesn't do as much as the Archivist ability; it's just a straight (though very impressive) bonus to attack and damage. Of course, you can MAKE this more versatile - a bigger bonus to hit means more freedom to dump BA into Power Attack and/or Combat Expertise, for example (as my character does). Plus, you get the neat added bonus of actually having a Knowledge skill as a class skill for a fighter. And remember, even with no ranks, a Knowledge skill may be used untrained, as long as the DC is 10 or less. But the Knowledge Devotion feat doesn't have a DC, it just measures your check, and even on a 1 you get a +1 bonus. So once you have this feat, you essentially gain at least a +1 bonus to attack and damage as long as you have enough information about what you're fighting to know it's a monster (i.e. can see it, etc.). So high Int directly translates into more damage. Hooray for Int-based fighters! Glad I'm not the only one. - Johnny