Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NerdNumber1 05-09-07, 01:51 PM	How do you work intiminate (or diplomancy for that matter) if you are being truthful? Example 1: (Rogue is using diplomancy to get captured enemy to answer questions when a repeating crossbow weilding orc (with low cha and no ranks in intiminate) gets impatent) Orc (calmly): Answer questions or I shoot. Enemy: You're bluffi... *shot in the leg for non-leathal damage* ..WTF! Orc (calmly): Answer questions or I shoot, again. (He knows that a silent captive is worthless and doesn't really care if the enemy lives or dies) Enemy: ...You can't kill me, I'm to valu... *Shot in stomach for leathal damage* ...Ok I'll talk! Now it doesn't take a charismatic bard to shoot someone in the leg until they feel like talking, so how should this be ruled? Sensing motive would only show that the orc will shoot you if you don't answer his questions (just like he said and did).
jaelis 05-09-07, 02:00 PM	Anyone can threaten. Just say "tell me what I want to know, or I'll kill you." However that doesn't work if (a) the target is so fanatical he'd rather die than tell you, or (b) you aren't in a position of power to carry out your threat. In those kind of situations, intimidate is used. Either to make the fanatic so scared of you that he goes back on his principles, or to convince someone you aren't immediately threatening that you can come back later and mess him (or his family) up good.
CCS 05-09-07, 02:02 PM	How do you work intiminate (or diplomancy for that matter) if you are being truthful? Example 1: (Rogue is using diplomancy to get captured enemy to answer questions when a repeating crossbow weilding orc (with low cha and no ranks in intiminate) gets impatent) Orc (calmly): Answer questions or I shoot. Enemy: You're bluffi... *shot in the leg for non-leathal damage* ..WTF! Orc (calmly): Answer questions or I shoot, again. (He knows that a silent captive is worthless and doesn't really care if the enemy lives or dies) Enemy: ...You can't kill me, I'm to valu... *Shot in stomach for leathal damage* ...Ok I'll talk! Now it doesn't take a charismatic bard to shoot someone in the leg until they feel like talking, so how should this be ruled? Sensing motive would only show that the orc will shoot you if you don't answer his questions (just like he said and did). This is a fine example of role-playing. And at some point the DM will simply have to decide if the captive deigns to answer.... There's no rolls or checks involved & it's not a matter of rules. Just common sense. Don't worry, your game, like thousands of pre-3e/3.5 ones before it, will survive.
Inigo Carmine 05-09-07, 02:23 PM	Don't confuse the intimidation skill with mundane bullying, physical threats (even if carried out) or torture. One of the biggest mistakes with D&D 3.x is people reading the name of something without bothering to look at the mechanics. Look at the mechanics; the name is something tacked on to the end that will usually, sometimes or only very very occasionally fit the mechanic. Look at the effects of the initimidate skill: they will treat you as friendly. It is not just physical threat, it is psychological domination of a person. If you have someone intimidated in the D&D skill sense, you can hand them a loaded shotgun and turn your back and them, and not only will they not shoot you, but they will actively take unsolicited risks to help you. So ask yourself: if said orc was hog-tied to a chair and immobile (helpless by D&D standards) and the enemy was alone and standing over him with a Scythe, able to CDG him, would said enemy still offer up the information willingly, and probably untie the orc and let him go as well? If not, then he is not "intimidated" by the orc. === That being said, under the threat of death, people will sometimes be willing to offer up information in exchange for their lives. It is not a skill based things any more than the PCs need to fail a morale check in order to try and escape from an enemy that is beating them.
the_Luggage 05-09-07, 04:52 PM	And of course, your DM can always make ranks in diplomacy/intimidate more useful to get by making the information you get under threat of force unreliable- people will say anything to make the hurting stop. (I think that was the point of the post above, but I felt like stating it more explicitly). I've been in that situation myself, with my Cha 6 goblin. He was always with the stabbing and shooting of prisoners until the party cleric/psion pointed out that we could get much more reliable info with Charm Person. D'oh.