Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Howland Reed 01-29-08, 04:28 PM	I loved the 7th level maneuver Finishing Move from Tome of Battle...until I noticed something. As a 7th level maneuver, it deals either +4d6, +8d6, or +14d6 damage, depending on how hurt your enemy is. But Ancient Mountain Hammer, also a 7th level strike, deals a flat +12d6 damage...and it ignores DR. So in at least half of all situations (your enemy is not wounded below 50% HP), Elder Mt. Hammer is highly superior...and even in those situations where Finishing Move is most useful, it's still about the same (2d6 more damage, but doesn't pierce DR). Does this sound a little off to anyone else, or is it just me? Would it be out of line to move the damages to +5d6, +10d6, +15d6?
jaelis 01-29-08, 06:16 PM	I thought the idea was that Stone Dragon was supposed to be better at flat out damage, while Iron Heart gives you more options and tactical advantages, in general. So you wouldn't want an IH damaging strike to be the equal of an SD damaging strike. I mean, SD has nothing to match Iron Heart surge, does it?
Mr_Teapot 01-29-08, 06:18 PM	I loved the 7th level maneuver Finishing Move from Tome of Battle...until I noticed something. As a 7th level maneuver, it deals either +4d6, +8d6, or +14d6 damage, depending on how hurt your enemy is. But Ancient Mountain Hammer, also a 7th level strike, deals a flat +12d6 damage...and it ignores DR. So in at least half of all situations (your enemy is not wounded below 50% HP), Elder Mt. Hammer is highly superior...and even in those situations where Finishing Move is most useful, it's still about the same (2d6 more damage, but doesn't pierce DR). Does this sound a little off to anyone else, or is it just me? Would it be out of line to move the damages to +5d6, +10d6, +15d6? It is subpar, but there are some other maneuvers out there that are similarly less powerful than other equal level maneuvers. You only really want Finishing Move if it fulfills a maneuver prereq that Ancient Mountain Hammer doesn't, or if you want multiple maneuvers with big bonuses to damage readied at the same time.
Wih 01-29-08, 08:12 PM	Keep in mind that Ancient Mountain Hammer is a Stone Dragon strike, and Stone Dragon strikes need you to be standing on solid ground to use. Finishing Move doesn't.
Artector 01-29-08, 08:18 PM	Keep in mind that Ancient Mountain Hammer is a Stone Dragon strike, and Stone Dragon strikes need you to be standing on solid ground to use. Finishing Move doesn't. Exactly what I was going to say. Though Stone Dragon is nice, I didn't care for it because of this.
navar100 01-29-08, 08:59 PM	This is a feature, not a bug. You don't have enough maneuvers readied to be able to diversify between all the disciplines in which you have access. While nothing is stopping a warblade from having maneuvers and stances from all his disciplines, doing so tends to be inefficient unless you are going for Master of Nine prestige class. Even then you'll more likely only know one maneuver from a discipline. A warblade can handle two disciplines, favoring one over of the other, but that other still contributes well. A warblade who focuses on Iron Heart and one other would take Finishing Move and be happy. A warblade who focuses on Stone Dragon and one other would take Ancient Mountain Hammer and be happy. A warblade who focuses on Iron Heart and Stone Dragon make his choice on his own preference and be happy. Go for the guaranteed great damage through DR or take the still decent damage to great damage that he can use on flying creatures and/or while is himself flying.
Ikeman04 01-29-08, 09:09 PM	Either way, I'd take Finishing Move and Improved Unarmed Strike, just so I could RKO people.
StruckingFuggle 01-29-08, 10:17 PM	Either way, I'd take Finishing Move and Improved Unarmed Strike, just so I could RKO people. Oh come on. The RKO? The Diamond Cutter is a hugely superior RKO, but seriously, the Canadian Destroyer beats all. :p
StruckingFuggle 01-29-08, 10:29 PM	Gah. Doubleposted, somehow.
Obsidianjaerc 01-29-08, 11:04 PM	Continuing the "pattern", might not be a bad patch for this largely fine maneuver. By that I mean +4d6/+8d6/+16d6.