Is Goad any good? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Is Goad any good? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zandari
01-07-08, 12:16 PM I see a couple of problems with this feat:

First, from the description -

When the goaded opponent starts its next turn, if it threatens you...

So this only works if you are standing next to the poor sorceror getting bashed on, it doesn't do any good if the bad guy is getting sucker-punched on the other side of the room. You gotta move over there first.

Second, from the description -

(If it kills you, knocks you unconscious, loses sight of you, or otherwise is unable to make melee attacks against you, it may make any remaining melee attacks against other foes, as normal.) A goaded creature can still cast spells, make ranged attacks, move, or perform other actions normally.

So all the bad guy has to do is take a five-foot step to un-goad himself?

Am I missing something here?

Zandari Lighteyes, multiclassing is fun!
Sinfire Titan
01-07-08, 04:20 PM Is this the CW version, or the Minis Handbook version? Because the Minis version is outdated.
InkBlot
01-07-08, 04:45 PM Sinfire, I think you mean CAdv. Complete Warrior doesn't have Goad.

Goad is only good if you don't have PHBII or Tome Of Battle. Even then, it's only good by default: there's simply no other mechanic for encouraging/forcing an enemy to pay attention to you instead of the glass cannons in your party. In a core + CAdv game, I'd personally rather use a reach weapon and AoO trips (or the Standstill feat if you consider the SRD core) to keep enemies from moving past my Fighter tank -- but Goad is better for a tanking Barbarian or Paladin, since they don't have the bonus feats for a traditional reach+AoO+trip build, and Goad is available at 1st level.

If you have access to PHBII, then the Knight class is your tank.

If you have access to ToB, then you can use Martial Study to give your Fighter a couple of the excellent tanking maneuvers and stances from the Devoted Spirit and Stone Dragon disciplines. Or you can take levels in Crusader, which is the tankiest tank that ever tanked. Either way, Devoted Spirit > Goad. Why use Goad when you can give an enemy you threaten a -4 penalty to hit anybody other than you, or make an AoO against him when he attacks anybody other than you, or hit him so hard he has to make a Fort save or be unable to move his feet, or give an ally an AC bonus by becoming a human shield as an immediate action? However, Goad is available at level 1, so maybe it's good to have to start with, if your DM uses the retraining rules.
CryoSilver
01-07-08, 04:48 PM Goad can also be useful when combined with Karmic Strike.
Sinfire Titan
01-07-08, 06:44 PM Sinfire, I think you mean CAdv. Complete Warrior doesn't have Goad.

Goad is only good if you don't have PHBII or Tome Of Battle. Even then, it's only good by default: there's simply no other mechanic for encouraging/forcing an enemy to pay attention to you instead of the glass cannons in your party. In a core + CAdv game, I'd personally rather use a reach weapon and AoO trips (or the Standstill feat if you consider the SRD core) to keep enemies from moving past my Fighter tank -- but Goad is better for a tanking Barbarian or Paladin, since they don't have the bonus feats for a traditional reach+AoO+trip build, and Goad is available at 1st level.

If you have access to PHBII, then the Knight class is your tank.

If you have access to ToB, then you can use Martial Study to give your Fighter a couple of the excellent tanking maneuvers and stances from the Devoted Spirit and Stone Dragon disciplines. Or you can take levels in Crusader, which is the tankiest tank that ever tanked. Either way, Devoted Spirit > Goad. Why use Goad when you can give an enemy you threaten a -4 penalty to hit anybody other than you, or make an AoO against him when he attacks anybody other than you, or hit him so hard he has to make a Fort save or be unable to move his feet, or give an ally an AC bonus by becoming a human shield as an immediate action? However, Goad is available at level 1, so maybe it's good to have to start with, if your DM uses the retraining rules.

Whoops, true dat!

Synergy with Rollibar's Gambit too. Why not all three at once? A Crusader can take some serious punishment if min-maxed right.
Orenmir
01-07-08, 06:53 PM Typically, Goad is only useful to a tank with a feat to burn (there is usually something better to choose).

Some atypical scenarios where Goad would be a great feat to choose would be:

1. For a tank with only fragile other party-members.
2. For a melee class with a lot of reach and Stand Still or Large and in Charge.
3. For a bully (fluff).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zandari 01-07-08, 12:16 PM	I see a couple of problems with this feat: First, from the description - When the goaded opponent starts its next turn, if it threatens you... So this only works if you are standing next to the poor sorceror getting bashed on, it doesn't do any good if the bad guy is getting sucker-punched on the other side of the room. You gotta move over there first. Second, from the description - (If it kills you, knocks you unconscious, loses sight of you, or otherwise is unable to make melee attacks against you, it may make any remaining melee attacks against other foes, as normal.) A goaded creature can still cast spells, make ranged attacks, move, or perform other actions normally. So all the bad guy has to do is take a five-foot step to un-goad himself? Am I missing something here? Zandari Lighteyes, multiclassing is fun!
Sinfire Titan 01-07-08, 04:20 PM	Is this the CW version, or the Minis Handbook version? Because the Minis version is outdated.
InkBlot 01-07-08, 04:45 PM	Sinfire, I think you mean CAdv. Complete Warrior doesn't have Goad. Goad is only good if you don't have PHBII or Tome Of Battle. Even then, it's only good by default: there's simply no other mechanic for encouraging/forcing an enemy to pay attention to you instead of the glass cannons in your party. In a core + CAdv game, I'd personally rather use a reach weapon and AoO trips (or the Standstill feat if you consider the SRD core) to keep enemies from moving past my Fighter tank -- but Goad is better for a tanking Barbarian or Paladin, since they don't have the bonus feats for a traditional reach+AoO+trip build, and Goad is available at 1st level. If you have access to PHBII, then the Knight class is your tank. If you have access to ToB, then you can use Martial Study to give your Fighter a couple of the excellent tanking maneuvers and stances from the Devoted Spirit and Stone Dragon disciplines. Or you can take levels in Crusader, which is the tankiest tank that ever tanked. Either way, Devoted Spirit > Goad. Why use Goad when you can give an enemy you threaten a -4 penalty to hit anybody other than you, or make an AoO against him when he attacks anybody other than you, or hit him so hard he has to make a Fort save or be unable to move his feet, or give an ally an AC bonus by becoming a human shield as an immediate action? However, Goad is available at level 1, so maybe it's good to have to start with, if your DM uses the retraining rules.
CryoSilver 01-07-08, 04:48 PM	Goad can also be useful when combined with Karmic Strike.
Sinfire Titan 01-07-08, 06:44 PM	Sinfire, I think you mean CAdv. Complete Warrior doesn't have Goad. Goad is only good if you don't have PHBII or Tome Of Battle. Even then, it's only good by default: there's simply no other mechanic for encouraging/forcing an enemy to pay attention to you instead of the glass cannons in your party. In a core + CAdv game, I'd personally rather use a reach weapon and AoO trips (or the Standstill feat if you consider the SRD core) to keep enemies from moving past my Fighter tank -- but Goad is better for a tanking Barbarian or Paladin, since they don't have the bonus feats for a traditional reach+AoO+trip build, and Goad is available at 1st level. If you have access to PHBII, then the Knight class is your tank. If you have access to ToB, then you can use Martial Study to give your Fighter a couple of the excellent tanking maneuvers and stances from the Devoted Spirit and Stone Dragon disciplines. Or you can take levels in Crusader, which is the tankiest tank that ever tanked. Either way, Devoted Spirit > Goad. Why use Goad when you can give an enemy you threaten a -4 penalty to hit anybody other than you, or make an AoO against him when he attacks anybody other than you, or hit him so hard he has to make a Fort save or be unable to move his feet, or give an ally an AC bonus by becoming a human shield as an immediate action? However, Goad is available at level 1, so maybe it's good to have to start with, if your DM uses the retraining rules. Whoops, true dat! Synergy with Rollibar's Gambit too. Why not all three at once? A Crusader can take some serious punishment if min-maxed right.
Orenmir 01-07-08, 06:53 PM	Typically, Goad is only useful to a tank with a feat to burn (there is usually something better to choose). Some atypical scenarios where Goad would be a great feat to choose would be: 1. For a tank with only fragile other party-members. 2. For a melee class with a lot of reach and Stand Still or Large and in Charge. 3. For a bully (fluff).