Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BraulioB 05-18-07, 12:50 PM	I got the scribe scroll feat and I've been comparing prices to scribe a scroll to the market value of scrolls and they seem the same. Maybe I'm missing something (probably). Looks to me that I would be paying the same price PLUS losing XP for it. That doesn't seem right. I am going by this formula in the SRD. Spell Level x Caster Level x 25 gold. Specifically, I want to make a scroll of Bull's Strength. Using that formula (2 x 3 x 25gp) it comes out to 150gp. The market price is 150gp. Also, don't I have to add the price of the materials (paper, ink)? I agree that if the spell requires a 50gp gem, that the price goes up for it. Please help me out. B
lukelightning 05-18-07, 12:54 PM	For clerics, druids, and wizards, YES. It's great for all those "just in case" spells that you know you will need at some point. Remove curse, cure disease, break enchantment, etc. It's also good for "battlefield control" spells that don't require a save, like wall spells. This frees up your prepared slots for spells you know you will use in every combat.
Breetai 05-18-07, 12:56 PM	Your exacly half right. all you pay is the component cost which is half the base price + base price divided by 25 in xp Base Price is 150 so... Bulls Strength = 75gp +6xp
Breetai 05-18-07, 12:58 PM	BTW I have found making scrolls to be an excellent suppliment to aany characters firepower/lasting power. The problem is finding time to scribe stuff.
BraulioB 05-18-07, 01:07 PM	Your exacly half right. all you pay is the component cost which is half the base price + base price divided by 25 in xp Base Price is 150 so... Bulls Strength = 75gp +6xp So you are saying that the formula is just the market price NOT the scribing price? Where is the formula for scribing that comes out to half the price (as in the example)? Is it that 12.5 gp one (for 2nd level spells)? B
Breetai 05-18-07, 01:21 PM	BTW I have found making scrolls to be an excellent suppliment to aany characters firepower/lasting power. The problem is finding time to scribe stuff.
Breetai 05-18-07, 01:26 PM	Yep 12.5 gp AND 1 xp for a 1st level spell at 1st level caster.
gotbrain 05-18-07, 01:28 PM	The SRD says: SCRIBE SCROLL [ITEM CREATION] Prerequisite: Caster level 1st. Benefit: You can create a scroll of any spell that you know. Scribing a scroll takes one day for each 1,000 gp in its base price. The base price of a scroll is its spell level x its caster level x 25 gp. To scribe a scroll, you must spend 1/25 of this base price in XP and use up raw materials costing one-half of this base price. Any scroll that stores a spell with a costly material component or an XP cost also carries a commensurate cost. In addition to the costs derived from the base price, you must expend the material component or pay the XP when scribing the scroll.
Matthew77 05-18-07, 01:29 PM	So you are saying that the formula is just the market price NOT the scribing price? Where is the formula for scribing that comes out to half the price (as in the example)? Is it that 12.5 gp one (for 2nd level spells)? B The cost to create any magic item, not just scrolls, is half the market price in GP and 1/25 the market price in exp. The GP cost is usually imagined to cover all the raw materials needed such as exotic inks and papers for scrolls. Magic supplies for items are always half of the base price in gp and 1/25 of the base price in XP. For many items, the market price equals the base price. IMO, Scribe Scroll is an excellent investment for making scrolls of rarely used, specalized spells. For extra combat firepower, wands (or better yet, eternal wands) are preferable to scrolls, but a couple hundred exp is a small price for having just the right spell for the task at hand.
BraulioB 05-18-07, 01:50 PM	OK, I got it this time. Thanks for all your help. I got confused with the Base Price and the Scribe Price. B
Lokenarin 05-18-07, 03:45 PM	only if your DM makes buying scrolls hard or rare. If you can easily buy them in what ever spell you want, then save the feat and spend the $$ loken
Warduke 05-18-07, 05:24 PM	For a Cleric I would say Scribe Scroll is arguably the single best feat you can invest in. This is of course IF the DM allows the downtime for crafting. I also agree its not really needed if buying any scroll you want need is allowed by the DM, but most DMs dont just allow buying anything you want (need) at any givin time.
Bopple 05-18-07, 08:41 PM	It's a very, very good feat at low-mid lvl. It's a handy feat at high lvl.
Thane26425 05-18-07, 09:10 PM	Scribing scrolls is good for those rarely used spells. At higher levels, I found it helpful to carry a couple of scrolls of Assay Resistance for use against creatures with a high Spell Resistance. Much more effective than Spell Penetration, even if it is not always operating like the feat. It is always handy to have lengthy Invisibility and Expeditious Retreat spells on scrolls too, and a teleport scroll can be a life saver too.
runestar 05-18-07, 11:06 PM	The wizard has scribe scroll as a bonus feat. I don't see why other spellcasters have to take the feat as well, rather than leech off the wizard? After all, the wizard can provide the use of the feat, while the cleric provides the casting of heal, to scribe a divine scroll of heal.:)
BW0222 05-19-07, 09:29 AM	Folks, As others have said, you can craft any magical item for half price and 1/25 it's cost in XP. It takes 1 day per 1000gp, with a minimum of 1 day. You basically trade 12.5gp for 1xp and some down time. A 1st-level scroll saves you 12.5gp for 1xp and 1 day. A 2nd-level scroll saves you 75gp for 6xp. A 3rd-level scroll saves you 187.5gp for 15xp. etc. The feat isn't that great. It offers no benefits which you typically can't just buy. The only times when it might be of true benefit are: a) In a low-magic campaign which does not not allow (or significantly limits) the purchase of scrolls or where locations to purchase scrolls is otherwise limited. b) In a low-treasure campaign were the PCs have significantly less gold than the recommended limits. c) At extremely low levels (1st to 3rd) where folks just don't have the money to purchase scrolls and scribing might be worth the gold savings. Also crafting might be a fast way of earning small amounts of coin. By 4th or so, IMO it usually better just to have the party chip in and buy the scrolls in order to keep the wizard's xp with the party. In most campaigns, I almost always stop using scribe scroll by 5th. Far easier just to buy the scrolls. The same might apply to other crafting feats, except more campaigns limit purchase access to wands, weapons, armor, etc. In general, if you could buy it, the savings aren't that great.
runestar 05-19-07, 10:10 AM	Actually, the 3.5 xp system quite supports item crafting. The lower lv you are, the more xp you will get from overcoming a certain challenge. This means that even if the wizard is a lv behind due to aggressive item creation, it is only a matter of time before he catches up with the party, since he now gets more xp to compensate. Also, I do not believe that you can reasonably expect to always find any scroll you want in a shop. Yes, it is possible that a wizard npc may have a few spare scrolls lying around which he is willing to sell, but what are the chances that those scrolls contain the exact same spells you are looking for? You can commission a wizard to scribe it for you, but it will take time to prepare, same as your wizard PC scribing it himself.
Nom 05-19-07, 05:44 PM	This means that even if the wizard is a lv behind due to aggressive item creation, it is only a matter of time before he catches up with the party, since he now gets more xp to compensate.Where "a matter of time" is a very long time if he's only 1 level below, and anything more than that and he takes a significant hit to spell power. And runestar is right - you generally only need one (or zero) party member with any given item creation feat.
HassanNinkin 05-19-07, 09:19 PM	also, when was the last time your DM decided to recalculate the experience chart because one character was 200 xp below the party, and therefore a different level? Every DM I've ever gamed with for the last 16 years has either given a flat XP reward for everyone in the party, or simply told players after a session that they either leveled up or didn't. Of course, anytime item creation came up in those campaigns, XP numbers were rapidly assigned.
utilitarian 05-19-07, 09:45 PM	Also depends on your campaign. Obviously if you're based out of Sharn you can pick up scrolls like candy, but if you're off in the boonies of a low magic world, chances are "scroll shops" are pretty hard to come by.
runestar 05-19-07, 10:17 PM	Where "a matter of time" is a very long time if he's only 1 level below, and anything more than that and he takes a significant hit to spell power. Well, you wouldn't really be a full lv behind, probably a few hundred xp behind, maybe a thousand or so at worst (unless you really crafted very aggressively). 1 or 2 encounters should do the trick.:)
Nom 05-19-07, 10:36 PM	Well, you wouldn't really be a full lv behind, probably a few hundred xp behind, maybe a thousand or so at worst (unless you really crafted very aggressively). 1 or 2 encounters should do the trick.:)At such small amounts, it's going to come down to the step function between your XP and theirs and the XP table. In my campaign, there's almost 10,000 XP between the most and least advanced character, and they're only 1 level different most of the time (L7-8). That said, the difference between 7 and 8 is noticeable - several characters are waiting for L8 so that they finally get iterative attacks. For the spellcasters, the difference between 6 and 7 or 8 and 9 is more noticeable: a new level of spells.
Thane26425 05-19-07, 11:37 PM	You could always run a solo adventure or three to catch up with the group, if the DM were willing. My house rules for gestalt characters is a 25% XP penalty. Not everyone takes that up and I have had one gestalt in a party. I would normally run an adventure or two on the side for that character now and then to keep them no more than a level behind others. That was no big deal.
Beckett 05-20-07, 08:38 AM	I give all baseline casters a flat 10% xp pool that can only be used for item creation. Seems only fair to me as they are generally expected to not only weaken themselves to gain an item they want but also to create for everyone else too. It works out nice, cause if they just want to make a few scrolls or potions it doesn't hurt them a bit, but if they want to make a magic weapon, it only stings a lil but not enough to upset the average xp curve of the group. So why don't rogues have to "put a part of themselves" into making a permanent trap, or fighters crafting a permanent sword? Just idle curiosity.