Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gorrath 04-28-07, 10:54 AM	I've a player who wants to make a druid with the Vow of Poverty feat. I've always hated that feat, not because it seems too powerful, but just because I think there is no point to all the bonus it gives, it's just stupid. But now, I think it may be broken with some classes, like the monk and also, now that I'm thinking about it...the druid! I think it's broken when used with Wild Shape...usually the problem with wild shape is that you lose the benefits of your gear, but with this feat you don't care about that and you get tons of bonus usable in your wild shape form. Am I missing something or it is broken? Do you usually allow this feat in your games?
Wolfpack 04-28-07, 11:09 AM	I am of the opinion that it is not broken *ducks and hides from the flamers* and here is my semi reasoning (I am in a hurry so I won't go into detail) Vow of poverty gives lots of bonuses, true and these can make for interesting characters (In my group we've had three vop characters a monk, druid, and cleric) but all of these characters wound up wishing they had never taken the feat when they fell behind the rest of the party in power level, two of them went so far as to break their vows to have magical items, and that's because there are some weaknesses that these classes had that weren't easily solved within the confines of the vow. In the case of the druid the vow is a fair bit better I admit, that is the only character class I wouldn't allow to use vow in any of my campaigns unless it was going to be a high magic item campaign as that would balance it a fair bit. Another point is that nearly everything the vow gives can become worse than the magic items the DM gives if the DM is free on handing them out. So: High magic items campaign -> vow =weak Medium magic item campaign -> vow = good Low magic item campaign -> vow = broken No clue if that'll help you but I haven't got the time to look over what I've typed. Edit: the monk with vow is often talked about as being overpowered, but take it from me it isn't anywhere near as powerful as a druid with vow.
penchant 04-28-07, 11:42 AM	I believe that VoP is set at 80% of the wealth by level if you bought equivalent magic items. Some I've talked to hate it with a passion because it does not allow a DM to rob the character blind or control his progression. This I can't understand, but then I'm not a ubercontrol freak DM. All in all it just works but as was stated above, it stays level and does not scale in the face of a non-WBL equivalent game. What I did was create an alternative template that removed the Exhalted feats and allowed the character to have any wealth in excess of the WBL limit while getting the same bennies of VoP. Check below if you care. I threw this together for a single game that lasted for just a few sessions. Level / Benefit / Gem Value Consumption 1st Armor bonus +4, Gem dependency 2nd Improved Unarmed Combat / Gems 900gp 3rd Armor bonus +5, Endure Elements / Gems 1800gp 4th Soul Strike +1 (magic) / Gems 2700gp 5th Sustenance / Gems 3600gp 6th Armor bonus +6, Deflection +1 / Gems 4000gp 7th Resistance +1, Ability score enhancement +2 / Gems 6000gp 8th Natural armor +1, mind shielding / Gems 8000gp 9th Armor bonus +7 / Gems 9000gp 10th Soul Strike +2 (adamantine), damage reduction 5/magic / Gems 13000gp 11th Ability score enhancement +4 / +2 / Gems 17000gp 12th Armor bonus +8, deflection +2, greater sustenance / Gems 22000gp 13th Resistance +2, energy resistance 5 / Gems 22000gp 14th Soul strike +3, freedom of movement / Gems 40000gp 15th Armor bonus +9, ability score enhancement +6/ +4/ +2, damage reduction 5/ adamantine / Gems 50000gp 16th Natural Armor +2 / Gems 60000gp 17th Soul Strike +4, resistance +3, Crystal regeneration / Gems 80000gp 18th Armor bonus +10, deflection +3, true seeing / Gems 100000gp 19th Ability score enhancement +8/ +6/ +4/ +3, damage reduction 10/ adamantine / Gems 140000gp 20th Soul Strike +5, energy resistance 15, Quest / Gems 180000gp Soul Stone A bearer of a shard of a Soul Stone is bound to it for life as it ties itself to the character’s heart. There are procedures to remove one, but none of them avoid removing the heart from the body. The shard is a crystal that colors and shapes itself according to the character and as the character’s life force grows, so to does the shard. The shard is, however, jealous and will not suffer the presence of other outside sources of power. Any item that the character wears or wields will act as if inside an anti-magic shell. This does not affect magic cast offensively on the character or magic items used against him. It can prevent magical restraints like dimensional shackles from functioning, but not area effects like a cube of force. Innate supernatural and spell like abilities as well as the personal ability to cast magic are unaffected as the shard considers that a natural state. It eventually makes using even normal items like armor difficult since as the crystal grows it sprouts crystalline projections from the forearms, the elbows and other areas. The crystal feels just in being so demanding from all the benefits it grants its new host. Though a shard bearer will have next to nothing in magic he will be often equal to any he meets on the battlefield. The innate magical abilities that a shard growing in a person can bestow can make them as powerful as a dragon or planar creature. At each character level, the shard grows a little bit more and a few more crystals (called facets) will grow from the skin in areas creating a tougher hide, a stronger muscle, or creating a new magical field. Each one has a purpose, though only the shard bearer knows what for. A high-level shard bearer may be mistaken for a gemlike construct or an elemental. A character receives a shard voluntarily, though they do not have to comprehend what they are agreeing to. Only a shard bearer of 20th level or higher can bestow a shard upon another character and that choice is a personal one. Armor Bonus (Su): a 1st-level shard receives a +4 Armor bonus. The bonus increases to +5 at 3rd level, and thereafter increases by +1 for every 3 character levels. Gem Dependency (Ex): The character must consume crystalline gems (like emeralds and diamonds but not like pearls and amber) in order to continue his progression. Conveniently enough this gem dependency is equal to the average gold piece per level recommendations as given in the Dungeon Master’s Guide. Improved Unarmed Combat (Ex): A 2nd-level shard’s unarmed attacks are considered armed and do lethal damage as if he had the feat. This is a change in the structure of his fists and joints and not an improvement in skill. Base damage increases to 1D4. Endure Elements (Ex): A 3rd-level shard is immune to the effects of being in a hot or cold environment. He can exist comfortably in conditions between –50 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit without habing to make fortitude saves (as described in the Dungeon Master’s Guide). Soul Strike (Su): At 4th-level a shard gains a +1 enhancement bonus to all attack and damage rolls. Weapons crafted are effectively considered +1 magical weapons as are the hand to hand attacks. This enhancement can also apply to missile weapons. This enhancement bonus increases to +2 at 10th level, to +3 at 14th level, to +4 at 17th level, and to +5 at 20th level. At 10th level even unarmed attacks are considered adamantine for purposes of overcoming damage reduction and hardness. Damage also becomes piercing or slashing (chosen upon gaining 10th level) instead of blunt for unarmed attacks. Sustenance (Ex): As the crystal shard overtakes more of the operations of the body, it provides all food and nourishment for the character by 5th level. Deflection (Su): A 6th level shard begins producing a low level magic field that provides a +1 deflection bonus to Armor Class. This bonus increases to +2 at 12th level, and to +3 at 18th level. Resistance (Ex): At 7th level a shard gains a +1 resistance bonus on all saving throws. This bonus increases to +2 at 13th level and to +3 at 17th level. Ability Score Enhancement (Ex): At 7th level, the shard begins to develop and improve its host by adding +2 to one ability score. At 11th level he gains an extra +2 to that score and a +2 bonus to another ability score. At 15th level, he gains an extra +2 bonus to those two scores, and a +2 bonus to a third ability score. At 19th level, he gains an extra +2 to those three scores and a +2 bonus to a fourth ability score. Natural Armor (Ex): At 8th level, the shard’s skin begins to look a bit scaly, but on closer inspection the skin is faceted with thousands of tiny crystals. This provides a +1 natural armor bonus (or existing natural armor bonus increases by +1). This increases an extra +1 at 16th level. Mind Shielding (Ex): At 8th level the shard begins protecting the mind and becomes immune to detect thoughts, discern lies and any attempt to discern his alignment. Damage Reduction (Su): The shard’s skin has become so tough that he gains damage reduction 5/magic at 10th level. At 15th level this increases to 5/adamantine and at 19th level to 10/ adamantine. Greater Sustenance (Ex): Once he attains 12th level, the shard does not need to breathe. Energy Resistance (Ex): At 13th level the shard gains resistance 5 to acid, cold, electricity and fire. As a crystal creature, he takes 1.5 times damage from sonic. At 20th level the resistance increases to 15 and the damage from sonic is doubled. Freedom of Movement (Ex): at 14th level the shard can act as if continually under the effect of a freedom of movement spell. Crystal Regeneration (Ex): At 17th level, the shard heals 1 point of damage per level every hour rather than every day (This ability cannot be aided by the Heal skill). Nonlethal heals at a rate of 1 point of damage per level every 5 minutes. This ability does not function if the shard is reduced to –10 hit points or below. True Seeing (Su): At 18th level the shard gains a continuous true seeing ability, as the spell. Now you wonder where all those gems of seeing come from as you look in the mirror. Your eyes do look a little faceted. Quest (Ex): At 20th level the shard is complete and reaches maturity. It will no longer nullify magic or grant new abilities. For all this time it has only given. And now it is time to ask. The character is required to perform a quest. This quest is up to the DM but it may incur an act of evil or good, a great sacrifice or simply passing out shardlings to your followers and fan club. The DM may reveal the secret origins of the shards or allow you to sell them for profit. Creature Type: Crystal The crystal subtype can apply to a variety of different creatures. It may be a creature type as a fully crystalline living being or a subtype of construct or elemental. A crystalline being is any that is made of a non-organic mineral that is crystalline in structure at the molecular level or at least 50% of its body is made up of such. Being crystalline means being at least partially translucent and hard to the touch, though movement is natural and not restricted. Crystal beings usually have at least a +4 natural armor bonus and radiate light as the spell when casting magic or using spell like abilities. They are vulnerable to sonic damage taking 1-½ times the amount of damage given. Most crystalline beings do not eat meat or vegetable material but consume raw minerals for growth and development. They might need to breath to fuel similar chemical processes as organics or other gases or none at all. A crystalline being does not age naturally and can live for a long time, but may lose experience and levels when procreating, choosing to pass on some of that experience to the offspring. Experience points are not traded but only whole levels.
Perseus_Stoned 04-28-07, 11:49 AM	Level / Benefit / Gem Value Consumption 1st Armor bonus +4, Gem dependency 2nd Improved Unarmed Combat / Gems 900gp 3rd Armor bonus +5, Endure Elements / Gems 1800gp 4th Soul Strike +1 (magic) / Gems 2700gp 5th Sustenance / Gems 3600gp 6th Armor bonus +6, Deflection +1 / Gems 4000gp 7th Resistance +1, Ability score enhancement +2 / Gems 6000gp 8th Natural armor +1, mind shielding / Gems 8000gp 9th Armor bonus +7 / Gems 9000gp 10th Soul Strike +2 (adamantine), damage reduction 5/magic / Gems 13000gp 11th Ability score enhancement +4 / +2 / Gems 17000gp 12th Armor bonus +8, deflection +2, greater sustenance / Gems 22000gp 13th Resistance +2, energy resistance 5 / Gems 22000gp 14th Soul strike +3, freedom of movement / Gems 40000gp 15th Armor bonus +9, ability score enhancement +6/ +4/ +2, damage reduction 5/ adamantine / Gems 50000gp 16th Natural Armor +2 / Gems 60000gp 17th Soul Strike +4, resistance +3, Crystal regeneration / Gems 80000gp 18th Armor bonus +10, deflection +3, true seeing / Gems 100000gp 19th Ability score enhancement +8/ +6/ +4/ +3, damage reduction 10/ adamantine / Gems 140000gp 20th Soul Strike +5, energy resistance 15, Quest / Gems 180000gp Soul Stone A bearer of a shard of a Soul Stone is bound to it for life as it ties itself to the character’s heart. There are procedures to remove one, but none of them avoid removing the heart from the body. The shard is a crystal that colors and shapes itself according to the character and as the character’s life force grows, so to does the shard. The shard is, however, jealous and will not suffer the presence of other outside sources of power. Any item that the character wears or wields will act as if inside an anti-magic shell. This does not affect magic cast offensively on the character or magic items used against him. It can prevent magical restraints like dimensional shackles from functioning, but not area effects like a cube of force. Innate supernatural and spell like abilities as well as the personal ability to cast magic are unaffected as the shard considers that a natural state. It eventually makes using even normal items like armor difficult since as the crystal grows it sprouts crystalline projections from the forearms, the elbows and other areas. The crystal feels just in being so demanding from all the benefits it grants its new host. Though a shard bearer will have next to nothing in magic he will be often equal to any he meets on the battlefield. The innate magical abilities that a shard growing in a person can bestow can make them as powerful as a dragon or planar creature. At each character level, the shard grows a little bit more and a few more crystals (called facets) will grow from the skin in areas creating a tougher hide, a stronger muscle, or creating a new magical field. Each one has a purpose, though only the shard bearer knows what for. A high-level shard bearer may be mistaken for a gemlike construct or an elemental. A character receives a shard voluntarily, though they do not have to comprehend what they are agreeing to. Only a shard bearer of 20th level or higher can bestow a shard upon another character and that choice is a personal one. Armor Bonus (Su): a 1st-level shard receives a +4 Armor bonus. The bonus increases to +5 at 3rd level, and thereafter increases by +1 for every 3 character levels. Gem Dependency (Ex): The character must consume crystalline gems (like emeralds and diamonds but not like pearls and amber) in order to continue his progression. Conveniently enough this gem dependency is equal to the average gold piece per level recommendations as given in the Dungeon Master’s Guide. Improved Unarmed Combat (Ex): A 2nd-level shard’s unarmed attacks are considered armed and do lethal damage as if he had the feat. This is a change in the structure of his fists and joints and not an improvement in skill. Base damage increases to 1D4. Endure Elements (Ex): A 3rd-level shard is immune to the effects of being in a hot or cold environment. He can exist comfortably in conditions between –50 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit without habing to make fortitude saves (as described in the Dungeon Master’s Guide). Soul Strike (Su): At 4th-level a shard gains a +1 enhancement bonus to all attack and damage rolls. Weapons crafted are effectively considered +1 magical weapons as are the hand to hand attacks. This enhancement can also apply to missile weapons. This enhancement bonus increases to +2 at 10th level, to +3 at 14th level, to +4 at 17th level, and to +5 at 20th level. At 10th level even unarmed attacks are considered adamantine for purposes of overcoming damage reduction and hardness. Damage also becomes piercing or slashing (chosen upon gaining 10th level) instead of blunt for unarmed attacks. Sustenance (Ex): As the crystal shard overtakes more of the operations of the body, it provides all food and nourishment for the character by 5th level. Deflection (Su): A 6th level shard begins producing a low level magic field that provides a +1 deflection bonus to Armor Class. This bonus increases to +2 at 12th level, and to +3 at 18th level. Resistance (Ex): At 7th level a shard gains a +1 resistance bonus on all saving throws. This bonus increases to +2 at 13th level and to +3 at 17th level. Ability Score Enhancement (Ex): At 7th level, the shard begins to develop and improve its host by adding +2 to one ability score. At 11th level he gains an extra +2 to that score and a +2 bonus to another ability score. At 15th level, he gains an extra +2 bonus to those two scores, and a +2 bonus to a third ability score. At 19th level, he gains an extra +2 to those three scores and a +2 bonus to a fourth ability score. Natural Armor (Ex): At 8th level, the shard’s skin begins to look a bit scaly, but on closer inspection the skin is faceted with thousands of tiny crystals. This provides a +1 natural armor bonus (or existing natural armor bonus increases by +1). This increases an extra +1 at 16th level. Mind Shielding (Ex): At 8th level the shard begins protecting the mind and becomes immune to detect thoughts, discern lies and any attempt to discern his alignment. Damage Reduction (Su): The shard’s skin has become so tough that he gains damage reduction 5/magic at 10th level. At 15th level this increases to 5/adamantine and at 19th level to 10/ adamantine. Greater Sustenance (Ex): Once he attains 12th level, the shard does not need to breathe. Energy Resistance (Ex): At 13th level the shard gains resistance 5 to acid, cold, electricity and fire. As a crystal creature, he takes 1.5 times damage from sonic. At 20th level the resistance increases to 15 and the damage from sonic is doubled. Freedom of Movement (Ex): at 14th level the shard can act as if continually under the effect of a freedom of movement spell. Crystal Regeneration (Ex): At 17th level, the shard heals 1 point of damage per level every hour rather than every day (This ability cannot be aided by the Heal skill). Nonlethal heals at a rate of 1 point of damage per level every 5 minutes. This ability does not function if the shard is reduced to –10 hit points or below. True Seeing (Su): At 18th level the shard gains a continuous true seeing ability, as the spell. Now you wonder where all those gems of seeing come from as you look in the mirror. Your eyes do look a little faceted. Quest (Ex): At 20th level the shard is complete and reaches maturity. It will no longer nullify magic or grant new abilities. For all this time it has only given. And now it is time to ask. The character is required to perform a quest. This quest is up to the DM but it may incur an act of evil or good, a great sacrifice or simply passing out shardlings to your followers and fan club. The DM may reveal the secret origins of the shards or allow you to sell them for profit. Creature Type: Crystal The crystal subtype can apply to a variety of different creatures. It may be a creature type as a fully crystalline living being or a subtype of construct or elemental. A crystalline being is any that is made of a non-organic mineral that is crystalline in structure at the molecular level or at least 50% of its body is made up of such. Being crystalline means being at least partially translucent and hard to the touch, though movement is natural and not restricted. Crystal beings usually have at least a +4 natural armor bonus and radiate light as the spell when casting magic or using spell like abilities. They are vulnerable to sonic damage taking 1-½ times the amount of damage given. Most crystalline beings do not eat meat or vegetable material but consume raw minerals for growth and development. They might need to breath to fuel similar chemical processes as organics or other gases or none at all. A crystalline being does not age naturally and can live for a long time, but may lose experience and levels when procreating, choosing to pass on some of that experience to the offspring. Experience points are not traded but only whole levels. This.. is a really cool idea. Anyways, from my experiences I've noticed the following about the VoP: It is really powerful if: You just look at it on paper. Its yet another addition to an incredibly min-maxed and optimized character. Your DM does not abide by the wealth guidelines and instead doesn't give you much treasure. Unless it is a low-wealth campaign, even in a gesalt game where you play a druid/monk and your DM treats your unarmed strikes at natural attacks, it will still leave you in the dust at higher levels, when you get deprived of magic items. Just ban it on the premise that they can't roleplay an exalted character (because 90% of the time that is true) and you don't wanna deal with the BoED.
Gorrath 04-28-07, 12:51 PM	For those who don't know this feat, here's what it gives to a 20th level character: Weapons considered as if +5 and good to overcome DR EDIT:also gives +5 to attack bonus and to damage Energy resistance 15 (fire, cold, electricity, acid et sonic) 10 Exalted feats Damage Reduction 10/Evil +8 +6 +4 +2 to four different stats +10 AC (exalted bonus) +2 AC (natural armor bonus) +3 AC (deflection bonus) True Seeing Regeneration 1 hp/level per hour Freedom of Movement Mind Shielding Sustenance (doesn't need to eat or drink) Greater Sustenance (doesnt need to breath) +3 to all saves
Perseus_Stoned 04-28-07, 12:53 PM	For those who don't know this feat, here's what it gives to a 20th level character: Weapons considered as if +5 and good to overcome DR Energy resistance 15 (fire, cold, electricity, acid et sonic) 10 Exalted feats Damage Reduction 10/Evil +8 +6 +4 +2 to four different stats +10 AC (exalted bonus) +2 AC (natural armor bonus) +3 AC (deflection bonus) True Seeing Regeneration 1 hp/level per hour Freedom of Movement Mind Shielding Sustenance (doesn't need to eat or drink) Greater Sustenance (doesnt need to breath) +3 to all saves Clarification: but you are not allowed to use any items except quarterstaff, a robe, and enough provisions for one day. You also must donate money to a charity of the like continually (so no extra moneys for your group).
Gorrath 04-28-07, 12:57 PM	I forgot something: The +5 weapon is not only to overcome DR, it also gives +5 to hit and +5 to damage
InkBlot 04-28-07, 01:05 PM	I played a monk with Vow Of Poverty once (recently too). He still wasn't a match for the other monk in the party who was using magic weapons and gear, let alone the cleric of the party. Our DM strictly followed the wealth-by-level guidelines. Clarification: but you are not allowed to use any items except quarterstaff, a robe, and enough provisions for one day. You also must donate money to a charity of the like continually (so no extra moneys for your group). To be precise, you aren't allowed any items except "a simple weapon*," "simple homespun clothes," the sack of food you mentioned, and maybe a begging bowl if you carved it out of wood yourself. You can also carry money, but only to bring it to the nearest needy person or charitable organization, and only if you can't convince your friends to carry the filthy lucre for you. *although this is precisely what the feat allows, it is well and truly ludicrous because it allows you to carry and use a 50gp crossbow without breaking your vow. I usually assume that by "simple" they ment "lacking complexity" not "on the list of simple weapons."
Gnarl 04-28-07, 01:17 PM	I could use a reminder here, if you pick the vow of poverty feat, do you take your share of the treasure to give it away or do the remaining party members spit your share of the treasure? In the later case, the feat is broken (because other party members have too much gear for their level), otherwise, well it's debatable. The feat is flavorless and poorly designed anyway. Just have the bad guys cast sleep and make the PC wear a cheap jewl while sleeping and bye bye vow of poverty.
Perseus_Stoned 04-28-07, 01:18 PM	I played a monk with Vow Of Poverty once (recently too). He still wasn't a match for the other monk in the party who was using magic weapons and gear, let alone the cleric of the party. Our DM strictly followed the wealth-by-level guidelines. Hey, a monk being a match for a cleric? What type of games do you normally play? :D To be precise, you aren't allowed any items except "a simple weapon*," "simple homespun clothes," the sack of food you mentioned, and maybe a begging bowl if you carved it out of wood yourself. You can also carry money, but only to bring it to the nearest needy person or charitable organization, and only if you can't convince your friends to carry the filthy lucre for you. I was trying to simplify the basic tenements of the vow, although I spoke falsely about my quarterstaff comment. You are allowed a simple weapon, not just a quarterstaff; sorry.
Neutronium_Dragon 04-28-07, 01:37 PM	> The feat is flavorless and poorly designed anyway. Just have the bad guys > cast sleep and make the PC wear a cheap jewl while sleeping and bye bye > vow of poverty. No, because he didn't choose to take ownership or claim use of it. It requires a deliberate, willing act to break that vow. The vow isn't broken if you carry something on behalf of someone else (as long as you don't use it) or if something ends up on your person without you realizing. You would need to get rid of it once you became aware of it, though. Likewise, if you're tricked into taking something which is more valuable than you realize, you're only going to have a vow-breaking problem if you continue to keep it after discovering that fact.
navar100 04-28-07, 02:01 PM	I played a monk with Vow Of Poverty once (recently too). He still wasn't a match for the other monk in the party who was using magic weapons and gear, let alone the cleric of the party. Our DM strictly followed the wealth-by-level guidelines. To be precise, you aren't allowed any items except "a simple weapon*," "simple homespun clothes," the sack of food you mentioned, and maybe a begging bowl if you carved it out of wood yourself. You can also carry money, but only to bring it to the nearest needy person or charitable organization, and only if you can't convince your friends to carry the filthy lucre for you. *although this is precisely what the feat allows, it is well and truly ludicrous because it allows you to carry and use a 50gp crossbow without breaking your vow. I usually assume that by "simple" they ment "lacking complexity" not "on the list of simple weapons." Eventually a person with the Vow doesn't need to eat; hence no need for a bowl to beg for food.
Perseus_Stoned 04-28-07, 02:09 PM	Eventually a person with the Vow doesn't need to eat; hence no need for a bowl to beg for food. Eventually isn't today, when you are currently starving.
StruckingFuggle 04-28-07, 02:12 PM	In a normal game, it's not only broken, it's usually a bad idea. (unless you're a druid, because the bonuses carry over to wildshape) In a poor game, it's a decently strong feat. In a rich game, it's an even weaker feat. In any game where you can get custom gear, it's weakness grows. And it's utterly inflexible. Even if you strip it of its asinine flavor, even if you kick out the rping "check" of "exalted", chances are your VoP Whatever will still get outshone at most every turn by someone else.
Morwen 04-28-07, 02:30 PM	I could use a reminder here, if you pick the vow of poverty feat, do you take your share of the treasure to give it away or do the remaining party members spit your share of the treasure? You must take your share of the treasure and give it to charity.
Zherog 04-28-07, 02:32 PM	10 Exalted feats This is dependent, actually, on when you took the feat. While all the other bonuses are retroactive, bonus feats are not. So if you took the feat at first level you'll have more bonus feats than a character who took it at 5th level. I could use a reminder here, if you pick the vow of poverty feat, do you take your share of the treasure to give it away or do the remaining party members spit your share of the treasure? In the later case, the feat is broken (because other party members have too much gear for their level), otherwise, well it's debatable. The former. You still receive your share of treasure; you're just expected to donate it to charity. *** I've played a character with Vow of Poverty. And let me tell you - if your DM is reasonable, it's fun but difficult. "Exalted" is a difficult standard to adhere to.
Particle_Man 04-28-07, 08:45 PM	You still receive your share of treasure; you're just expected to donate it to charity. Note: This can often showcase the wackiness of pseudo-medieval economies, when you drop 15 000 gp on the local poor. Suddenly they don't seem so poor anymore! :)
Korentin_Black 04-28-07, 10:20 PM	Actually, there's no particular expectation - remember that your character doesn't know ICly about 'party share' and 'game balance'. That said, informing the group that a share of monies they make going to certain temples and shrines is perfectly reasonable, but it's not *your* money. You've moved beyond material goods and hold them in disdain... well, usually. My one VoP character was a paladin with a celestial mule 'mount', a serious chip on his shoulder and a distinctly Dirty Harry attitude. But he was a special case. ^_^
Part-Human2 04-28-07, 10:35 PM	Anyone pointed out the 2 Save My Game Articles on Vow of Poverty (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20060609a)?
tahjn 04-28-07, 10:42 PM	Right now in our campaign I am playing a Gestalt Ninja/Warlock with a VOP and it is making him extremely broken even in context with the other party members and their magic items. Basically the VOP makes classes that don't have need of magic weapons and such(like the Warlock) into much stronger fighters. The less your class deals with magical items the more powerful the Vow becomes. A VoP fighter sucks compared to his normal counterpart, where a VoP Monk quickly outshines the normal monk.
Perseus_Stoned 04-28-07, 11:07 PM	A VoP fighter sucks compared to his normal counterpart, where a VoP Monk quickly outshines the normal monk. And then, just as quickly falls behind again.
Sleepwalker13666 04-28-07, 11:19 PM	Note: This can often showcase the wackiness of pseudo-medieval economies, when you drop 15 000 gp on the local poor. Suddenly they don't seem so poor anymore! :) I have a fighter with VoP, one of the things I do is instead of just dumping the money on the poor, she''ll hire workers to fix up poor communities, such as pave roads, build irrigation ditches etc. The money is still benefiting the poor, but it doesn't cause an ecominical imbalance. Besides I personally think that of a pc just kept dropping off large sums of gold to charities it would cause more problems than benefits.
Marcotic 04-29-07, 12:04 AM	I was atually thinking of using VoP as a guideline for treasure, so it should work out, (if it doesn't then I'll change it back)