Is this right? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Is this right? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Balthezar BlackSword
04-06-07, 05:21 PM Two-handed weapon + Leap attack + Supreme Power Attack = +8 dmg/-1 atk?

Just wow
Balthezar BlackSword
04-06-07, 09:06 PM I mean that if i combine those things i can substract 1 from my attack bonus to add 8 to my damage rolls?
tnx in advance
Weab
04-06-07, 10:54 PM I'm sure someone will come explain why in more detail, but the answer is no.

they don't add up to 8x power attack damage.
SD
04-06-07, 10:59 PM I am very happy to be the one to say no. Not because it's a terrible idea, but because I'm a jerk.

I don't think you need to be told this, but for reference: In D&D, multipliers don't stack like they do in the real world. If you have the System Reference Document, this is on page 1. It's before they even tell you what a stat is. When two or more multipliers apply to any abstract value (such as a modifier or a die roll), however, combine them into a single multiple, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. Thus, a double (x2) and a double (x2) applied to the same number results in a triple (x3, because 2 + 1 = 3).

Supreme Power Attack gives you x4 damage using a two-handed weapon. Leap Attack gives you x3 using a two-handed weapon. 4 + (3 - 1) = 6x damage. Thus for every 1 point you lose from attack bonus, you get 6 points to damage.

Here's where I think the confusion lay. Note that both of the above already take into account that a two-handed weapon is being used. You don't get to add the two-weapon benefit twice; it's already taken into account in the descriptions of SPA and LA. That text is there specifically to preserve the normal PA rules, where two-handed weapons deal extra PA damage. As such, I would thus argue that even my above example is wrong in adding that bonus twice and that you should truly be dealing 5x damage, one for power attack, one for two-handed weapon, one for Leap Attack, and two for Supreme Power Attack.

In the end, it's whatever you can make your DM believe, but in discussing the ephemeral spirit of the rules, I'd hang my hat on a 500% return on investment.
IonizedChicken
04-07-07, 07:04 AM Actually, according to the errata you WOULD be dealing x6 damage. The errata states that the feat allows you to deal +100% the normal PA damage (whether you use it with a one-handed or two-handed weapon).
Assuming normal means +2 with a THW, you'd essentially deal 4PA + 2PA with a THW. Alternatively, it would 2(2PA + PA).
It's perfectly clear, really.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Balthezar BlackSword 04-06-07, 05:21 PM	Two-handed weapon + Leap attack + Supreme Power Attack = +8 dmg/-1 atk? Just wow
Balthezar BlackSword 04-06-07, 09:06 PM	I mean that if i combine those things i can substract 1 from my attack bonus to add 8 to my damage rolls? tnx in advance
Weab 04-06-07, 10:54 PM	I'm sure someone will come explain why in more detail, but the answer is no. they don't add up to 8x power attack damage.
SD 04-06-07, 10:59 PM	I am very happy to be the one to say no. Not because it's a terrible idea, but because I'm a jerk. I don't think you need to be told this, but for reference: In D&D, multipliers don't stack like they do in the real world. If you have the System Reference Document, this is on page 1. It's before they even tell you what a stat is. When two or more multipliers apply to any abstract value (such as a modifier or a die roll), however, combine them into a single multiple, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. Thus, a double (x2) and a double (x2) applied to the same number results in a triple (x3, because 2 + 1 = 3). Supreme Power Attack gives you x4 damage using a two-handed weapon. Leap Attack gives you x3 using a two-handed weapon. 4 + (3 - 1) = 6x damage. Thus for every 1 point you lose from attack bonus, you get 6 points to damage. Here's where I think the confusion lay. Note that both of the above already take into account that a two-handed weapon is being used. You don't get to add the two-weapon benefit twice; it's already taken into account in the descriptions of SPA and LA. That text is there specifically to preserve the normal PA rules, where two-handed weapons deal extra PA damage. As such, I would thus argue that even my above example is wrong in adding that bonus twice and that you should truly be dealing 5x damage, one for power attack, one for two-handed weapon, one for Leap Attack, and two for Supreme Power Attack. In the end, it's whatever you can make your DM believe, but in discussing the ephemeral spirit of the rules, I'd hang my hat on a 500% return on investment.
IonizedChicken 04-07-07, 07:04 AM	Actually, according to the errata you WOULD be dealing x6 damage. The errata states that the feat allows you to deal +100% the normal PA damage (whether you use it with a one-handed or two-handed weapon). Assuming normal means +2 with a THW, you'd essentially deal 4PA + 2PA with a THW. Alternatively, it would 2(2PA + PA). It's perfectly clear, really.