Post/Author/DateTime	Post
runestar 06-05-07, 08:57 AM	Experience is a river (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=695040) I was just perusing the aforementioned thread and its analysis seemed fairly exhaustive. In a nutshell, I am sure we are all aware of the new rule in 3.5, which allows lower lv characters in a party to get more xp. This means that if you are say, consistently a lv lower than the other PCs in your party, you are actually getting much more xp than them at any one time. Now, the tricky issue is how to consistently be a lv behind at all times. I bring up the issue of item creation as it is the most common means of draining xp. The other way is opting not to lv and hoarding xp, but it is problematic in that not many dms may endorse this style of play. There is also the option of burning xp to wishes for magic gear you want, but it is not readily accessible until higher lvs, and is essentially an alternate means of item creation anyways (except that you do not need to spend gold or downtime). As such, I am curious as to how many of you players have had experience as item crafters who are willing to craft magic gear for your entire party, to the extent of stunting your own development for the greater good of your party. While you are lower lv, your whole party benefits from access to superior wealth, more so than what your wealth guidelines would otherwise indicate. It is a tradeoff, but one that might seem well worth it. How viable is this as a method of gameplay? Anything I should look out for or keep in mind? What type of players would this appeal to? Admitably, I doubt I could ever be so "noble" as to give up my own lv advancement for such a cause.:embarrass And I don't have eberron splatbooks, so no artificer for me...:weep: Discuss.:)
Razorstorm 06-05-07, 09:03 AM	One thing my group does, to prevent hosing the item creator, is that when he is creating the item for another player, the recipient pays the xp cost. The idea is that the recipient is being involved in the process, spending the downtime as well, pouring his own essence into the project, using the creator as a channel to accomplish the goal. This allows the party to benefit from a creators feats, but not require him to inordinantly stunt his own growth making items for the rest of the party. Razorstorm
ServanWolf 06-05-07, 09:17 AM	mhmhm was just making a Blacksmith who is a crafter class.. but its a good point what you said and which i was not thinking about. Indeed letting pay the other person seems me a good idea..but you could also say that you firstly create the item and if you are able to "seel"/give it to a party)member you get your xp back :)... or anything like that :) Or maybe that those who are specialized in crafting GETS experience from craftings things (cause they become better in it through exercise not?)
runestar 06-05-07, 09:26 AM	One thing my group does, to prevent hosing the item creator, is that when he is creating the item for another player, the recipient pays the xp cost. Yes, I realize that is becoming a rather popular rule.:) However, the main point I was trying to drive across was the interesting observation of say, a mage who expends xp to craft items to the extent of falling a lv behind. Under the current rules, he gets more xp from overcoming each encounter to compensate. He could then channel this extra xp into crafting even more items (or fueling abilities which burn xp or whatever). Thus, if you were consistently a lv behind, you are continuously getting more xp, which in turn means more xp available for item crafting. The idea is to try and game the system this way. Just wondering if anyone has managed to successfully make full use of this rule for xp gain to great benefits.:)
ekeeb 06-05-07, 09:31 AM	one of the things i allow as a DM is that if the item is created by a character for another person, they supply the funding for the item (i see a wizard creating wands and other magical items for player characters for free as the cheaters way out), and half of the XP cost as well. the DM guide states that by selling the item the creator gets the XP back, (sort of an ad-hoc award for selling the item in their spare time) but it would be unfair if PCs get the item for no cost whatsoever, make them pay you to build the item so that you have the money later on to purchase other items and in turn sell them at a good price (i'd say a DC 20 to get a higher than average price) and then get an ad-oc experience award for getting a better price that just standard market price. i think of it as import /export trading in D&D ekeeb :D
ServanWolf 06-05-07, 09:33 AM	you could try to compensate the bonus xp of you low level to advance at the same rate as the others..but the problem is that you ar a level loweR...and thus less hp and other(and not as much spells), and that can be really hard then. There should be a possiblity to get back your xp spend for the craft, cause it not normal that if you create anything (and its an extraodinary act equal to a fight sometimes i think) you should get back at least some of your xp(or even win xp). Or you could egt followers and let THEM pay the xp :p :angelhide
ServanWolf 06-05-07, 09:36 AM	@ ekeeb i think that the ad-hoc is what it should be :) then you must have the xp available but dont have the problem to have lost to much after
acide_bob 06-05-07, 09:51 AM	I did it... i mean actually making a wizard that would craft about anything his party would want. Aside from my chracter there was 1 Barbarian, 1 Fighter, 1 Bard, 1 cleric and a rogue. Yes it was a big party. Six players. But i did, just taking the xp for the entire group. And while it was not really my objective when i first started that, my character was often three or four levels behind them, i still had the better equipement the party would find. Believe me that when you create the magic items for a while party without regard to your xp, the human shield is mor willing, cure come faster, gp rain from the wallet of others on you. The fighter always make sure his new armor and sword will protect you and the barbarian wouldn't let his guard down for one second no matter what. No honestly, it was interesting to see. I don't say i'll do it again, but must admit that i like items crafter, simply cause i like to create new magc items. As a player my hobby was to looka t all the soekks and feats and try to find way to combine them to a new effect for a armor or a sword. Now that i Dm i hae the luxury to create them and put them for nothign in game, but i must admit taht i miss a bit of this wizards taht was still level 17th when other were soon reaching 21st.
ekeeb 06-05-07, 09:52 AM	oh well it would be what i would do in that situation, just a suggestion. ekeeb :D
tarkin 06-05-07, 10:42 AM	1. Of course you should craft gear for your entire party. 2. Of course you should charge full price to them. OK, maybe give them a 5% discount. At most. There is NO reason at all you should be paying XP to give your friends better items. That is just bullcrap. You take the crafting feats to benefit YOU, not your party. your so called friends are ripping you off. They want to eat YOUR experience? They think it is "just friendly?" Fine. Ask them when are they going to be "just friendly" to you? Ask them why they have not taken a feat to save YOU gold/xp.
BobbyMac 06-05-07, 11:53 AM	ahem... Players Handbook II Web Enhancement... Magic Items: Transferring XP Costs (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a)
ServanWolf 06-05-07, 01:56 PM	not bad those rules :) , but still the problem is that most person have only the first players handbook and master handbook :) . Mhmhm a good method to do this without real lose of xp are maybe followers :p mhmmh or you charm person a creature or so :D...bad :schemes: :D..and tis allowed i just read...another good thing for a crafter to have followers and cohorts :D The methods given there seems good to me :)
Lixith 06-05-07, 06:17 PM	Well.... i don't do it for the greater good of my party... but i think it's worth losing a level for some cool gear at a cheap price. It sorta depends on how much GP your DM flings around. Especially with the MIC now out...theres so much good stuff out there to make, who can find enough GP for it all? I mean... what class feature for a wizard is better than say.... a belt of battle.... once a day you get 2 rounds in one round! 12000 gp i think.... 6000 if you make it. (dont have book in front of me) How useful is that? ULTRA usefull. Items rock. In many cases items overshadow classes, IMO. A good side question. say a 5th level PC fought a 10th level PC... any class, as long as it's the same. How much MORE money would the 5 need than the 10? I think we can agree that there is a GP point where there about equal in power. I'd say they woudln't need a boatload more to kick butt.
Xeviat-DM 06-06-07, 04:14 AM	I'm trying this right now, trying to figure out how to best keep myself one level behind. I charge my party member's 75% the price, which nets me a little return, and I use the extra gp to padd up my lacking abilities.