Jump, Climb, and Hide at high levels... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Jump, Climb, and Hide at high levels... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
AvisKarlux
03-08-07, 10:08 AM With Jump and Climb, flying makes them obsolete for the most part. With monsters having true seeing and blindsense or see invisibility as a standard, it makes hide obsolete. So what have any of you done to deal with this?
Richmud
03-08-07, 10:11 AM Though blindsence does defeat hide true seeing does not.

Also there is a feat in lords of madness that allows you to hide from creatures with blindsence, blindsight, and tremorsence

As for jump and climb, its a question of resources. Why waste, money or spell slots on the ability to fly when you can consistently jump and climb over many obstacles
ClementWillowbreaker
03-08-07, 11:24 AM Have you ever noticed how many mid-to-level outsiders or dragons have (Greater) Dispel Magic and a tendency to hang out in the center of volcanoes, lakes of acid, quicksand, or craggy glaciers? That is why Jump and Climb are good.
tarkin
03-08-07, 01:24 PM Hide works fine against True Seeing and also fine against See Invisibility.

In fact, often people must do both Hide and be Invisible.

Similarly, jump/climb/etc. are often extremely important, even with Fly.
Naderion
03-08-07, 07:55 PM Also fly has a limited time, while climbing does not.
BW0222
03-08-07, 08:21 PM AvisKarlux,

>With Jump and Climb, flying makes them obsolete for the
>most part.

Depends.

Magic always has the limitation that it of of limited duration and/or uses. Skills do not.

Flying is also typically divided into overland flight and tactical (in combat) flight. The fact you have a hyprogriff a flying carpet, or can wildshape into an eagle doesn't help you get down a shear pit or in a small room. (Manuverability prevents it from being useful since you can't hover). Likewise, a fly spell doesn't do much good to cross a mountain range or search a long series of cliffs.

Activating magic also takes some time. Taking out a potion of fly and drinking it takes a full round. Whereas just jumping the pit can be done as part of your move.

Finally, magic can be dispelled, often with disasterous results. And at high levels an anti-magic shell is also possible.

I agree that climb and jump become less useful, but not entirely so.

>With monsters having true seeing and blindsense or see
>invisibility as a standard, it makes hide obsolete.

Neither true seeing nor see invisiblity help against hide. True seeing would only help if the concealment was due to some type of illusion -- say an illusionary box you were hiding behind. Even for various detect spells, one would have to know when to cast them and it typically requires several rounds of concentration to pin-point you.

Blindsense yes.. but honestly few monsters have that ability, even at high levels. Scent is far more likely to get you at you need to deal with it at much lower levels.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AvisKarlux 03-08-07, 10:08 AM	With Jump and Climb, flying makes them obsolete for the most part. With monsters having true seeing and blindsense or see invisibility as a standard, it makes hide obsolete. So what have any of you done to deal with this?
Richmud 03-08-07, 10:11 AM	Though blindsence does defeat hide true seeing does not. Also there is a feat in lords of madness that allows you to hide from creatures with blindsence, blindsight, and tremorsence As for jump and climb, its a question of resources. Why waste, money or spell slots on the ability to fly when you can consistently jump and climb over many obstacles
ClementWillowbreaker 03-08-07, 11:24 AM	Have you ever noticed how many mid-to-level outsiders or dragons have (Greater) Dispel Magic and a tendency to hang out in the center of volcanoes, lakes of acid, quicksand, or craggy glaciers? That is why Jump and Climb are good.
tarkin 03-08-07, 01:24 PM	Hide works fine against True Seeing and also fine against See Invisibility. In fact, often people must do both Hide and be Invisible. Similarly, jump/climb/etc. are often extremely important, even with Fly.
Naderion 03-08-07, 07:55 PM	Also fly has a limited time, while climbing does not.
BW0222 03-08-07, 08:21 PM	AvisKarlux, >With Jump and Climb, flying makes them obsolete for the >most part. Depends. Magic always has the limitation that it of of limited duration and/or uses. Skills do not. Flying is also typically divided into overland flight and tactical (in combat) flight. The fact you have a hyprogriff a flying carpet, or can wildshape into an eagle doesn't help you get down a shear pit or in a small room. (Manuverability prevents it from being useful since you can't hover). Likewise, a fly spell doesn't do much good to cross a mountain range or search a long series of cliffs. Activating magic also takes some time. Taking out a potion of fly and drinking it takes a full round. Whereas just jumping the pit can be done as part of your move. Finally, magic can be dispelled, often with disasterous results. And at high levels an anti-magic shell is also possible. I agree that climb and jump become less useful, but not entirely so. >With monsters having true seeing and blindsense or see >invisibility as a standard, it makes hide obsolete. Neither true seeing nor see invisiblity help against hide. True seeing would only help if the concealment was due to some type of illusion -- say an illusionary box you were hiding behind. Even for various detect spells, one would have to know when to cast them and it typically requires several rounds of concentration to pin-point you. Blindsense yes.. but honestly few monsters have that ability, even at high levels. Scent is far more likely to get you at you need to deal with it at much lower levels.