Jump over difficult terrain during Charge [Archive] - Wizards Community

Jump over difficult terrain during Charge [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Selvan
03-21-08, 05:38 PM According to the latest FAQ (and the Leap Attack Feat) it is possible to charge over squares containing difficult terrain simply by jumping over them.

I've got a few questions here:
1) Is it possible to end your jump in a square containing difficult terrain and still make the Charge? Or does it count as 2 squares of movement to "land" in such a square?

2) What's the DC for jumping over one 5ft square of difficult terrain? Is it considered a 5ft jump (distance jumped over) or a 10 ft jump (total distance moved)?

If the DC is 5 (doubled: 10). What's the DC for jumping into an adjacent square? Or is that merely considered a step?
Slimgauge
03-21-08, 06:20 PM According to the latest FAQ (and the Leap Attack Feat) it is possible to charge over squares containing difficult terrain simply by jumping over them.

Yes, as you never actually enter them, but rather pass over them without entering them.

1) Is it possible to end your jump in a square containing difficult terrain and still make the Charge?.

No.

Or does it count as 2 squares of movement to "land" in such a square?

According to the online SRD entry on Hampered Movement (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm#hamperedMovement), the type of terrain in the square entered (regardless of what mode of movement you used to enter it) determines the movement cost. You are actually entering the square you land in, rather than simply passing over it. If I was the DM, I'd either have you make a balance check to land safely or increase your jump DC, but that's not RAW.

2) What's the DC for jumping over one 5ft square of difficult terrain? Is it considered a 5ft jump (distance jumped over) or a 10 ft jump (total distance moved)?.

Center of square to center of square. 10 feet.

If the DC is 5 (doubled: 10). What's the DC for jumping into an adjacent square? Or is that merely considered a step?

To jump into an adjacent square is a DC 5 jump. You'd reach an altitude of 1/4 that at mid-point (the square boundary) or about 15 inches. You might do something like this to jump over a trip-wire without slowing down or something broader that would be awkward to step over, like a fallen tree trunk.
Selvan
03-21-08, 08:26 PM So in order to jump over a 5 ft. wide gulch, I'd have to succeed on a 10 ft jump check. That's weird.
Nathreet
03-21-08, 08:40 PM No it's a DC 5 jump check. It'd be 10 if you jumped from middle of square to middle of square, but you jump from edge to edge. Plus people would look at you funny when you made all your long jumps 2.5 feet before the line and fell in the pit whenever you landed less than 2.5 feet past the pit. Then you explain to them, "What? I'm jumping from this square to that one" and they give you more funny looks.

If you fail by less than 5 you can make a DC 15 reflex save to catch the edge. Pulling yourself up then requires a DC 15 climb check. Rolling a 10 or lower on the climb check (failure by 5 or more) means you let go and fall.

Jump DC's are doubled if you don't get a running start.

It's all here:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/jump.htm
Vegepygmy
03-22-08, 01:54 AM No it's a DC 5 jump check.Nathreet is correct. The PHB says (page 77):

The DC for the jump is equal to the distance jumped (in feet). For example, a 10-foot-wide pit requires a DC 10 Jump check to cross.

Also, I see no reason why you couldn't Jump into a square of difficult terrain and still complete a Charge. Slimgauge's assertion that a square of difficult terrain you Jump into nevertheless counts as 2 squares of movement is, AFAIK, totally unsupported by any official rule. Plus, it makes no sense.
Slimgauge
03-22-08, 10:29 AM I concede the distance jumped point.

I'll agree that paying double for the square you land in when jumping makes less that perfect sense.

Hampered Movement

Difficult terrain, obstacles, or poor visibility can hamper movement. When movement is hampered, each square moved into usually counts as two squares, effectively reducing the distance that a character can cover in a move.

If more than one condition applies, multiply together all additional costs that apply. (This is a specific exception to the normal rule for doubling)

No mention is made the mode of movement having any effect. Crawl, run, burrow, jump, whatever, it's still doubled.

You can't enter any difficult terrain during a charge. If there was an exception for the square you land in when jumping as part of a charge, you've just created a way to charge through difficult terrain by making a series of jumps. Perhaps a series of five foot jumps.
Shadowfax7
03-22-08, 10:55 AM Rolling a 10 or lower on the climb check (failure by 5 or more) means you let go and fall.This part is not Raw. It's not a bad rule at all, but not RAW as far as I can see.
Slimgauge
03-22-08, 11:00 AM Nathreet has taken that from the online SRD skill description of Climb (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/climb.htm):

A Climb check that fails by 4 or less means that you make no progress, and one that fails by 5 or more means that you fall from whatever height you have already attained.
Shadowfax7
03-22-08, 12:47 PM Nathreet has taken that from the online SRD skill description of Climb (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/climb.htm):I see says the blind man. My bad. :embarrass
Baninor
03-27-08, 11:54 AM I can't remember for sure. But I think you can't Jump as part of a charge since its not a move action. Jump can be done as part of a normal move. But I think charge doesn't count as a normal move. And to reinforce this I think there a couple feats here and there about jumping and charging which allows you to do so + some bonus.
Slimgauge
03-27-08, 03:11 PM You can make a long jump as part of a charge. As evidence, I quote from the 1/24/2008 edition of the v3.5 Main FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a) (emphasis mine)

Can my character make a jumping charge attack, either with a long jump or a high jump? Do I need the feats Fleet of Foot or Psionic Charge? If I can make a high jump as part of a charge, can I use it in conjunction with Battle Jump?

You can make a long jump as part of a charge. You must still follow all the normal rules for making a charge, such as moving in a straight line on the battle grid. This tactic can let you avoid some of the normal restrictions against charging. If a square of difficult terrain is between you and your charge target, you could possibly jump over it with a long jump. (The fact that your jump means that your movement isn’t a perfectly straight line doesn’t make the charge illegal—you’re still moving in a straight line as far as the battle grid is concerned, and the jump isn’t really changing your direction.)

Making a high jump as part of a charge is trickier. It’s hard to imagine a significant high jump that doesn’t change your direction; after all, you’re now moving vertically rather than laterally. Furthermore, if you have to slow your movement at any point of the charge, you can’t make the charge. For instance, if you make a high jump toward a ledge as part of a charge, then have to pull yourself up to the ledge before continuing, that’s not a charge, it’s a move or a double move. It’s the same for the “hop up” maneuver described on page 77in the Player’s Handbook: Since it counts as 10 feet of movement, you can’t perform such a maneuver as part of a charge.

Fleet of Foot (found in the Player’s Guide to Faerūn) and Psionic Charge (from the Expanded Psionics Handbook) might make performing a high jump as part of a charge a little easier. Both feats allow a single change in direction of up to 90degrees during the charge, which should be sufficient to allow you to make a high jump as part of a charge. Neither feat allows you to ignore the restrictions on slowed movement during a charge.

If you’re capable of making a high jump that brings you at least 5 feet above an enemy, you could employ the Battle Jump feat (from Unapproachable East) without having to start at a higher location. Of course, that would require a Jump check result of at least 40 for a Medium opponent, so it’s out of reach of most characters. You’d also have to make the Jump check from adjacent to your foe, so it would provoke attacks of opportunity (since you’re moving upward out of a threatened square). All in all, it sounds like a pretty tricky maneuver, but cinematically very exciting indeed.
Vegepygmy
03-27-08, 03:19 PM You can make a long jump as part of a charge. As evidence, I quore from the 1/24/200 edition of the v3.5 Main FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a) (emphasis mine)It has also been verified by the Rules Compendium.
Calessian
03-28-08, 11:10 AM In a mounted charge context the mount would have to have Leap Attack, correct?
Vegepygmy
03-28-08, 08:02 PM In a mounted charge context the mount would have to have Leap Attack, correct?What makes you think so?
Calessian
03-29-08, 03:33 PM What makes you think so?

Well, the horse is doing the jumping, is it not? So can you take advantage of the Leap Attack feat while mounted and if so, who should have the feat?
curtis_ownby
03-29-08, 11:47 PM Would think the player would have to jump off. They could use dismount attack skill trick combined with a jump check and do it. The problem is they would then be off of their mount. This would not be to bad if they have not put a lot into riding feats and the skill ride. There is a feat in PH2 that lets you make jump checks standing still without haning to duble the DC for the check.:D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Selvan 03-21-08, 05:38 PM	According to the latest FAQ (and the Leap Attack Feat) it is possible to charge over squares containing difficult terrain simply by jumping over them. I've got a few questions here: 1) Is it possible to end your jump in a square containing difficult terrain and still make the Charge? Or does it count as 2 squares of movement to "land" in such a square? 2) What's the DC for jumping over one 5ft square of difficult terrain? Is it considered a 5ft jump (distance jumped over) or a 10 ft jump (total distance moved)? If the DC is 5 (doubled: 10). What's the DC for jumping into an adjacent square? Or is that merely considered a step?
Slimgauge 03-21-08, 06:20 PM	According to the latest FAQ (and the Leap Attack Feat) it is possible to charge over squares containing difficult terrain simply by jumping over them. Yes, as you never actually enter them, but rather pass over them without entering them. 1) Is it possible to end your jump in a square containing difficult terrain and still make the Charge?. No. Or does it count as 2 squares of movement to "land" in such a square? According to the online SRD entry on Hampered Movement (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm#hamperedMovement), the type of terrain in the square entered (regardless of what mode of movement you used to enter it) determines the movement cost. You are actually entering the square you land in, rather than simply passing over it. If I was the DM, I'd either have you make a balance check to land safely or increase your jump DC, but that's not RAW. 2) What's the DC for jumping over one 5ft square of difficult terrain? Is it considered a 5ft jump (distance jumped over) or a 10 ft jump (total distance moved)?. Center of square to center of square. 10 feet. If the DC is 5 (doubled: 10). What's the DC for jumping into an adjacent square? Or is that merely considered a step? To jump into an adjacent square is a DC 5 jump. You'd reach an altitude of 1/4 that at mid-point (the square boundary) or about 15 inches. You might do something like this to jump over a trip-wire without slowing down or something broader that would be awkward to step over, like a fallen tree trunk.
Selvan 03-21-08, 08:26 PM	So in order to jump over a 5 ft. wide gulch, I'd have to succeed on a 10 ft jump check. That's weird.
Nathreet 03-21-08, 08:40 PM	No it's a DC 5 jump check. It'd be 10 if you jumped from middle of square to middle of square, but you jump from edge to edge. Plus people would look at you funny when you made all your long jumps 2.5 feet before the line and fell in the pit whenever you landed less than 2.5 feet past the pit. Then you explain to them, "What? I'm jumping from this square to that one" and they give you more funny looks. If you fail by less than 5 you can make a DC 15 reflex save to catch the edge. Pulling yourself up then requires a DC 15 climb check. Rolling a 10 or lower on the climb check (failure by 5 or more) means you let go and fall. Jump DC's are doubled if you don't get a running start. It's all here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/jump.htm
Vegepygmy 03-22-08, 01:54 AM	No it's a DC 5 jump check.Nathreet is correct. The PHB says (page 77): The DC for the jump is equal to the distance jumped (in feet). For example, a 10-foot-wide pit requires a DC 10 Jump check to cross. Also, I see no reason why you couldn't Jump into a square of difficult terrain and still complete a Charge. Slimgauge's assertion that a square of difficult terrain you Jump into nevertheless counts as 2 squares of movement is, AFAIK, totally unsupported by any official rule. Plus, it makes no sense.
Slimgauge 03-22-08, 10:29 AM	I concede the distance jumped point. I'll agree that paying double for the square you land in when jumping makes less that perfect sense. Hampered Movement Difficult terrain, obstacles, or poor visibility can hamper movement. When movement is hampered, each square moved into usually counts as two squares, effectively reducing the distance that a character can cover in a move. If more than one condition applies, multiply together all additional costs that apply. (This is a specific exception to the normal rule for doubling) No mention is made the mode of movement having any effect. Crawl, run, burrow, jump, whatever, it's still doubled. You can't enter any difficult terrain during a charge. If there was an exception for the square you land in when jumping as part of a charge, you've just created a way to charge through difficult terrain by making a series of jumps. Perhaps a series of five foot jumps.
Shadowfax7 03-22-08, 10:55 AM	Rolling a 10 or lower on the climb check (failure by 5 or more) means you let go and fall.This part is not Raw. It's not a bad rule at all, but not RAW as far as I can see.
Slimgauge 03-22-08, 11:00 AM	Nathreet has taken that from the online SRD skill description of Climb (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/climb.htm): A Climb check that fails by 4 or less means that you make no progress, and one that fails by 5 or more means that you fall from whatever height you have already attained.
Shadowfax7 03-22-08, 12:47 PM	Nathreet has taken that from the online SRD skill description of Climb (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/climb.htm):I see says the blind man. My bad. :embarrass
Baninor 03-27-08, 11:54 AM	I can't remember for sure. But I think you can't Jump as part of a charge since its not a move action. Jump can be done as part of a normal move. But I think charge doesn't count as a normal move. And to reinforce this I think there a couple feats here and there about jumping and charging which allows you to do so + some bonus.
Slimgauge 03-27-08, 03:11 PM	You can make a long jump as part of a charge. As evidence, I quote from the 1/24/2008 edition of the v3.5 Main FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a) (emphasis mine) Can my character make a jumping charge attack, either with a long jump or a high jump? Do I need the feats Fleet of Foot or Psionic Charge? If I can make a high jump as part of a charge, can I use it in conjunction with Battle Jump? You can make a long jump as part of a charge. You must still follow all the normal rules for making a charge, such as moving in a straight line on the battle grid. This tactic can let you avoid some of the normal restrictions against charging. If a square of difficult terrain is between you and your charge target, you could possibly jump over it with a long jump. (The fact that your jump means that your movement isn’t a perfectly straight line doesn’t make the charge illegal—you’re still moving in a straight line as far as the battle grid is concerned, and the jump isn’t really changing your direction.) Making a high jump as part of a charge is trickier. It’s hard to imagine a significant high jump that doesn’t change your direction; after all, you’re now moving vertically rather than laterally. Furthermore, if you have to slow your movement at any point of the charge, you can’t make the charge. For instance, if you make a high jump toward a ledge as part of a charge, then have to pull yourself up to the ledge before continuing, that’s not a charge, it’s a move or a double move. It’s the same for the “hop up” maneuver described on page 77in the Player’s Handbook: Since it counts as 10 feet of movement, you can’t perform such a maneuver as part of a charge. Fleet of Foot (found in the Player’s Guide to Faerūn) and Psionic Charge (from the Expanded Psionics Handbook) might make performing a high jump as part of a charge a little easier. Both feats allow a single change in direction of up to 90degrees during the charge, which should be sufficient to allow you to make a high jump as part of a charge. Neither feat allows you to ignore the restrictions on slowed movement during a charge. If you’re capable of making a high jump that brings you at least 5 feet above an enemy, you could employ the Battle Jump feat (from Unapproachable East) without having to start at a higher location. Of course, that would require a Jump check result of at least 40 for a Medium opponent, so it’s out of reach of most characters. You’d also have to make the Jump check from adjacent to your foe, so it would provoke attacks of opportunity (since you’re moving upward out of a threatened square). All in all, it sounds like a pretty tricky maneuver, but cinematically very exciting indeed.
Vegepygmy 03-27-08, 03:19 PM	You can make a long jump as part of a charge. As evidence, I quore from the 1/24/200 edition of the v3.5 Main FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a) (emphasis mine)It has also been verified by the Rules Compendium.
Calessian 03-28-08, 11:10 AM	In a mounted charge context the mount would have to have Leap Attack, correct?
Vegepygmy 03-28-08, 08:02 PM	In a mounted charge context the mount would have to have Leap Attack, correct?What makes you think so?
Calessian 03-29-08, 03:33 PM	What makes you think so? Well, the horse is doing the jumping, is it not? So can you take advantage of the Leap Attack feat while mounted and if so, who should have the feat?
curtis_ownby 03-29-08, 11:47 PM	Would think the player would have to jump off. They could use dismount attack skill trick combined with a jump check and do it. The problem is they would then be off of their mount. This would not be to bad if they have not put a lot into riding feats and the skill ride. There is a feat in PH2 that lets you make jump checks standing still without haning to duble the DC for the check.:D