Karmic strike? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Karmic strike? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
immortal_fighter
04-12-07, 02:47 PM I posted on the CO board to try to get help building a chain fighter to eventually go into chainer master. I was told i should take Karmic strike, can anyone tell me what this does?
glacialcat
04-12-07, 02:50 PM It allows you to take a -4 penalty to your AC, but in turn any enemy that hits you in melee provokes an attack of opportunity from you.
runestar
04-13-07, 12:52 AM Did someone request a chain tripper build? (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=163005):D
IonizedChicken
04-13-07, 01:39 PM Meh. Rob's Gambit is better. Also, no need to take icky feats like Dodge.
runestar
04-13-07, 09:59 PM Take both. You get 2 AoOs for every attack made on you...:D
IonizedChicken
04-14-07, 04:42 AM Naw. There's a limit between 'munchkin-izing' and 'optimizing' and that's crossing it I think. :P
Fallenangel359
04-14-07, 11:52 AM There is that rule that one action can never provoke more than one AoO
Fallenangel359
04-14-07, 11:56 AM There is that rule that one action can never provoke more than one AoO. karmic and robilars don't stack. They overlap.
StruckingFuggle
04-14-07, 01:38 PM There is that rule that one action can never provoke more than one AoO. karmic and robilars don't stack. They overlap.

Considering that they're provoked by two different actions (one by the foe attacking you, the other by the foe hitting you), no, they "stack"- though I don't think it's a necessarily accurate term ... better to say that they both trigger if a foe successfully hits you in combat, but only one if they attack and miss.
IonizedChicken
04-14-07, 04:18 PM There is that rule that one action can never provoke more than one AoO. karmic and robilars don't stack. They overlap.

Source?
runestar
04-14-07, 10:25 PM I think he is referring to this source.
Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Combat Reflexes feat you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity).
Although I think the highlighted part summarizes my point just nicely.:)
StruckingFuggle
04-14-07, 11:34 PM Yeah, it's legal.

The big problems with an RG/KS build isn't that it's illegal, it's that you're building to take damage to hand out AoOs, and so you need plenty of AoOs (...or Stormguard Warrior...:D) and a way to survive all the hits you'll take (Wrathful Healing Weapon, though that's just cheese)
runestar
04-14-07, 11:51 PM There is actually a build based on this.
You actually want the opponent to hit you. Quite 1 dimensional though.:P
StruckingFuggle
04-15-07, 12:22 AM Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me.

I made a variation on it, and got his AC into the negatives. :D
Bopple
04-15-07, 12:42 AM While it's legal, I have never seen any DM allowing them to stack.
I think very few DM out there would actually allow them to stack.
IonizedChicken
04-15-07, 02:57 AM Yeah, a combination of Stormguard, Rob's Gambit, and Karmic would rock. You could also add Defensive Sweep and enter Thicket of Blades stance to get some additional attacks of opportunity.

But yes, K. Strike and Rob would never be allowed to stack by an DM, least of all me. I've seen DMs just disallow Rob's Gambit out of hand because it's extremely abusable.
runestar
04-15-07, 03:21 AM Yeah, a combination of Stormguard, Rob's Gambit, and Karmic would rock. You could also add Defensive Sweep and enter Thicket of Blades stance to get some additional attacks of opportunity.
What do the other feats do? I have never heard of them before...:P
Brendan Candries
04-16-07, 09:49 AM since when is "hitting" someone an action by itself?
Arco_Monk
04-16-07, 02:59 PM One way I can see Karmic Strike superior to Rob.Gambit is when your opponent is so strong, he can 'always' hit you, thus your AC will not matter much.
You start at a distance. Foe moves in and hits you -> you hit back. On your round, you hit him again, and move away (preferrably behind a tree, so he can't charge you). Each round, he gets one attack, and you get two.
[But I must admit, I still need to try this at home :)]
IonizedChicken
04-16-07, 03:27 PM Runestar:

Stormguard Warrior is a Tactical feat from Tome of Battle. One of its benefits is that if you refrain from making an attack of opportunity at a particular creature you get a +4 bonus on attack and damage rolls against that creature on your next turn, per attack of opportunity you refrained from making.

Defensive Sweep is from PHB2. Basically, if an enemy doesn't move at least 5 feet during his turn he provokes an attack of opportunity at its end.

Thicket of Blades allows you to make attacks of opportunity even when opponents take 5 foot steps (basically, the combination of these two is unavoidable -- enemies always provoke attacks of opprotunity, no matter what they do).
runestar
04-16-07, 10:36 PM Ouch...:eek:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
immortal_fighter 04-12-07, 02:47 PM	I posted on the CO board to try to get help building a chain fighter to eventually go into chainer master. I was told i should take Karmic strike, can anyone tell me what this does?
glacialcat 04-12-07, 02:50 PM	It allows you to take a -4 penalty to your AC, but in turn any enemy that hits you in melee provokes an attack of opportunity from you.
runestar 04-13-07, 12:52 AM	Did someone request a chain tripper build? (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=163005):D
IonizedChicken 04-13-07, 01:39 PM	Meh. Rob's Gambit is better. Also, no need to take icky feats like Dodge.
runestar 04-13-07, 09:59 PM	Take both. You get 2 AoOs for every attack made on you...:D
IonizedChicken 04-14-07, 04:42 AM	Naw. There's a limit between 'munchkin-izing' and 'optimizing' and that's crossing it I think. :P
Fallenangel359 04-14-07, 11:52 AM	There is that rule that one action can never provoke more than one AoO
Fallenangel359 04-14-07, 11:56 AM	There is that rule that one action can never provoke more than one AoO. karmic and robilars don't stack. They overlap.
StruckingFuggle 04-14-07, 01:38 PM	There is that rule that one action can never provoke more than one AoO. karmic and robilars don't stack. They overlap. Considering that they're provoked by two different actions (one by the foe attacking you, the other by the foe hitting you), no, they "stack"- though I don't think it's a necessarily accurate term ... better to say that they both trigger if a foe successfully hits you in combat, but only one if they attack and miss.
IonizedChicken 04-14-07, 04:18 PM	There is that rule that one action can never provoke more than one AoO. karmic and robilars don't stack. They overlap. Source?
runestar 04-14-07, 10:25 PM	I think he is referring to this source. Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Combat Reflexes feat you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Although I think the highlighted part summarizes my point just nicely.:)
StruckingFuggle 04-14-07, 11:34 PM	Yeah, it's legal. The big problems with an RG/KS build isn't that it's illegal, it's that you're building to take damage to hand out AoOs, and so you need plenty of AoOs (...or Stormguard Warrior...:D) and a way to survive all the hits you'll take (Wrathful Healing Weapon, though that's just cheese)
runestar 04-14-07, 11:51 PM	There is actually a build based on this. You actually want the opponent to hit you. Quite 1 dimensional though.:P
StruckingFuggle 04-15-07, 12:22 AM	Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me. I made a variation on it, and got his AC into the negatives. :D
Bopple 04-15-07, 12:42 AM	While it's legal, I have never seen any DM allowing them to stack. I think very few DM out there would actually allow them to stack.
IonizedChicken 04-15-07, 02:57 AM	Yeah, a combination of Stormguard, Rob's Gambit, and Karmic would rock. You could also add Defensive Sweep and enter Thicket of Blades stance to get some additional attacks of opportunity. But yes, K. Strike and Rob would never be allowed to stack by an DM, least of all me. I've seen DMs just disallow Rob's Gambit out of hand because it's extremely abusable.
runestar 04-15-07, 03:21 AM	Yeah, a combination of Stormguard, Rob's Gambit, and Karmic would rock. You could also add Defensive Sweep and enter Thicket of Blades stance to get some additional attacks of opportunity. What do the other feats do? I have never heard of them before...:P
Brendan Candries 04-16-07, 09:49 AM	since when is "hitting" someone an action by itself?
Arco_Monk 04-16-07, 02:59 PM	One way I can see Karmic Strike superior to Rob.Gambit is when your opponent is so strong, he can 'always' hit you, thus your AC will not matter much. You start at a distance. Foe moves in and hits you -> you hit back. On your round, you hit him again, and move away (preferrably behind a tree, so he can't charge you). Each round, he gets one attack, and you get two. [But I must admit, I still need to try this at home :)]
IonizedChicken 04-16-07, 03:27 PM	Runestar: Stormguard Warrior is a Tactical feat from Tome of Battle. One of its benefits is that if you refrain from making an attack of opportunity at a particular creature you get a +4 bonus on attack and damage rolls against that creature on your next turn, per attack of opportunity you refrained from making. Defensive Sweep is from PHB2. Basically, if an enemy doesn't move at least 5 feet during his turn he provokes an attack of opportunity at its end. Thicket of Blades allows you to make attacks of opportunity even when opponents take 5 foot steps (basically, the combination of these two is unavoidable -- enemies always provoke attacks of opprotunity, no matter what they do).
runestar 04-16-07, 10:36 PM	Ouch...:eek: