Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aqua_Regia 08-07-07, 08:58 PM	I didn't see an errata for PHB II, so I was wondering if there had been any CustServ or "Ask _____" dealing with this feat. Both Ki Blast and Fiery Ki Defense talk about being taken as a bonus feat at Monk 8. I assume it's reasonable to believe it's a typo for Monk 6, when the bonus feat for Improved Disarm or Improved Trip is given. However, the Ki Blast description also says that the Monk must have a BAB of +8. The only way a Monk can do this is to first take several levels of a full BAB class. The alternate choice, Fiery Ki Defense, has no such BAB restriction. Any help regarding clarification is welcome, even if it's just "they haven't said anything, so you'll just have to house-rule it."
StruckingFuggle 08-07-07, 09:07 PM	Quoting from the Monk description of its Bonus Feats: Bonus Feat At 1st level, a monk may select either Improved Grapple or Stunning Fist as a bonus feat. At 2nd level, she may select either Combat Reflexes or Deflect Arrows as a bonus feat. At 6th level, she may select either Improved Disarm or Improved Trip as a bonus feat. A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them.
jaelis 08-07-07, 09:51 PM	Here's what cust serv said: The feats Fiery Ki Defense and Ki Blast state that a monk can take them as a bonus feat at 8th level. Does it really mean 6th level? This is not clear, because the Ki Blast feat says the monk also must have a BAB of +6 which would require multiclassing. Yes it actually is supposed to be 6th level. SF, the Ki Blast feat does specifically say that a monk can't waive the BAB requirement. I think that has to override any general text for monk bonus feats.
Aqua_Regia 08-07-07, 10:36 PM	It would have been nice if CustServ had answered the entire question instead of just the first half. On the one hand, the text goes out of its way to point out a BAB requirement. On the other hand, this is the only monk feat I know of that has this type of restriction. It is also odd that the BAB requirement is the same as what a monk would normally possess at eighth level. Perhaps the writer was just trying to be thorough, but one mistake (easily remedied) led to another (not so easy).
ShinAkuma2 08-08-07, 03:09 AM	The question has been answered. It's meant to replace the 6th level bonus feat. The only way to take it as that bonus feat is by being a FighterX/Monk6, or any other combination that gets you extra BAB beforehand. Or you can just take it as a normal feat later.
Kouk 08-08-07, 03:48 AM	Well, I just chalk it up to poor research on the actual numbers and allow it as a level 6 Monk Bonus Feat with the only prerequisite being the feat Fiery Fist. EDIT: If you enforce the +6 BAB requirement, then it means someone who is a multiclass Monk can learn the feat before someone who is a "pure" monk. A pure Monk could not take the feat for a 6th level bonus feat, because at 6th level a Monk has a BAB of only +4. The pure Monk would have to wait until level 12 to take Ki Blast: 11th level gets him the +8 BAB for the normal requisite, but he has to wait until 12 before taking another feat (a feat every 3 levels). A multiclass Monk could get the feat about 5-6 levels earlier than the pure Monk - why should we penalize the pure Monk in this instance?
wonlee76 08-08-07, 10:23 AM	Yup, I would peg it as a 6th level bonus feat for monks (in place of improved disarm/trip). But if a monk wanted to take it as a regular feat, he would need to meet the pre-reqs normally. As precedent as to why the BAB pre-req is ignored if a monk takes it as a bonus feat, look at stunning fist. Available as a bonus feat for a 1st level monk and that feat has a BAB pre-req to it.
StruckingFuggle 08-08-07, 12:39 PM	A multiclass Monk could get the feat about 5-6 levels earlier than the pure Monk - why should we penalize the pure Monk in this instance? Alternatively, why should a "pure monk" be able to get it before an "impure monk"?
Mindolin 08-08-07, 04:29 PM	Because they've trained at it for longer.
Kouk 08-09-07, 02:47 AM	Alternatively, why should a "pure monk" be able to get it before an "impure monk"? Really? ... Really?
Tedronai 08-09-07, 03:22 PM	Because the training of a Monk is best suited to creating this type of effect compared to the training engaged in by other classes, just as a Monk is best suited to create a Stunning Fist effect or to Deflect Arrows.
StruckingFuggle 08-09-07, 10:43 PM	Who says that, say, a monk 2 / fighter 2 has had less monkly training yada yada than a monk 4? Maybe Brother Multiclass goes to the same Temple as Brother Straightclass, they study under the same sensei, go through many the same training regimen, and all that fluffy stuff, except Brother Multiclass focused a bit more on the combat aspect of being a monk, picking up a few more tricks here and there at the expense of a few other tricks? He can still be just as much a monk, with just as much "best suited training". Quality of training was a good try, but I still disagree with you; though I find "they've been at it longer" to be all but laughable, because there's no way to really back that up. Maybe Brother Straightclass is a slacker. Oh, and just as a Monk is best suited to create a Stunning Fist effect or to Deflect Arrows. Say what? How do you figure?
Nephlite 08-10-07, 12:00 AM	Who says that, say, a monk 2 / fighter 2 has had less monkly training yada yada than a monk 4? Maybe Brother Multiclass goes to the same Temple as Brother Straightclass, they study under the same sensei, go through many the same training regimen, and all that fluffy stuff, except Brother Multiclass focused a bit more on the combat aspect of being a monk, picking up a few more tricks here and there at the expense of a few other tricks? Technically, Brother Multi can't go back to the Monastery for fuether monk training so yes, there is a difference. Say what? How do you figure? He gets the feats for free without the requirements: He can have 10 Dex and Wis and use those feats even though they usually require more stats.