Knife Throwing? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Knife Throwing? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Fenrir_Greyback
10-12-07, 10:01 AM Is there anywhere a feat or skill that gives you bonuses on knife throwing?

I have a rogue who loves knifes, and throwing them, has ranks in preform(weapon drill, Knife) but doesn't have a good STR bonus therefore does almost no damage and my luck wiht d20s isn't particularly good either.

So, are there any feats out there or anything someones made up that I could suggest to my DM? she's very open minded, and providing that I had everything mapped out she'd take it. so are there any feats or skill that you can think of or have seen made up that would enhance ones knife throwing abilities?
The_Wrath_of_Talos
10-12-07, 10:19 AM Weapon focus adds a +1 to your attack, point blank shot will also add a +1 to your ranged attack within 30ft. You should also look into the master thrower class out of the complete warrior. Also look up the feats:quicker than the eye, craven and flick of the wrist. You really cant add a whole lot of damage to a dagger without enchanments or sneak attack so your best bet is to invest in a bandoleer and stock up on daggers so you can turn your enemies into a pin coushins. Maybe you can convince ur DM to make one time use daggers that explode dealing damage, like that javelin that has one use and does 3D6 elec damage.
Ninja_Ferret
10-12-07, 10:57 AM Far shot increases the range increment by 10 (basicly it doubles the daggers thrown range)

Yeah weapon focus and point blank like the other person said. I know there are more. Most Ranged feats also apply to thrown weapons. But not all of them.
LSMFT
10-12-07, 11:19 AM You're a rogue.
If you want to do better damage, don't worry about making your knives better.
Work out better ways to deny the baddie his dexterity and your damage will incease accordingly.
Kamin_Majere
10-12-07, 11:31 AM If you want good daggers you have to stack classes.

Rogue/Sword Sage/(if you can)Swashbuckler/Master Thrower

Rogue give you skill points and sneak attack
Sword Sage gives you access to the feat Shadow Blade which allows you to add your STR and DEX damage to daggers
Swashbuckler allows you to add INT damage to finesseable weapons

And master thrower is just nice because the throwing tricks.

With things like two weapon fighting, rapid shot, and double throw you can basically throw daggers like a machine gun. And if you need to you can actually go melee a bit and not be "too" worried.
WarColonel
10-12-07, 11:46 AM Rogue/Swash/Invisiable Blade/Master Thrower

Best dagger thrower out there, plus the invis blade lets you do a little melee.
Hsien
10-12-07, 12:04 PM Rogue/Swash/Invisiable Blade/Master Thrower

Best dagger thrower out there, plus the invis blade lets you do a little melee.

That's a good set up but as always "best" is debatable.
My dagger thrower is currently a Rogue 4 /Fighter 4/ Swash 3/ MT 5
( took fighter for extra feats and Wpn Spec..and took Ranged Mastery +2 Hit/+2 damage which stacks with Focus/Spec and gives +20 Range Incrament.

My group doesn't use ToB but for what I can use I wouldn't change him at all; although I am looking to possibly start into Invis Blade.

MT trick suggestions:
Ranged Trip; do damage then check for trip
Deadeye Shot; increases crit multiplier by one (x3 for daggers)
Weak Spot ( at 5 MT)

Palm Throw is not bad but it doesn't make my list because it burns a lot of daggers, and precision damage only applies once (per errata). My group interpretted that each dagger also has to overcome any DR speerately though.
Bowmore
10-13-07, 12:09 AM Try these two feats, from Player's Handbook II:

Telling Blow: requires only the ability to have sneak attack. It lets you add your sneak attack damage when you score a critical hit.

Deadeye Shot: Requires a couple feats and a base attack bonus that the rogue doesn't attain until level 6. It lets you ready an action to attack when an ally hits, you can also do a sneak attack.

I dunno how vague I have to be in describing these feats, but they're worth looking into if you want more situations in which you can perform sneak attack.
EjoThims
10-13-07, 09:11 AM Palm Throw, Two with One Blow, and Weak Spot are the best MT tricks.

Trip Shot, Two with One Blow, and Weak Spot make a close second combination wise.

Palm Throw is so wonderful because while precision damage only works once, enchantments still work per weapon.

And MTs are so wonderful with explosive, exit wound weapons.

Two daggers per attack, that hit two people as a touch attack. And they each explode with each hit (four explosions for one attack roll), and you can attack anyone behind them as well.

Works wonders in wreaking havoc on troop formations.
Garonak
10-13-07, 09:46 AM If you have a nice dm and play a (lesser) drow you could either take the Drow Skirmisher Feat (Secret's of Xen'drick) or Exotic Weapon Prof (Drow Longknife) for some nice daggers: 1d6 instead of 1d4 (rest is the same). This lets you qualify for Exotic Weapon Master's Twin Exotic Weapon trick (lessens your twf penalty by 1). If your dm's nice he/she might let you use drow long knife's in the Invisble Blade class.
And remember: Invisible Blade's requirements needs to be errataed, the class designer says that Far Shot and Point Blank Shot should be replaced by Weapon Finesse in the class requirements, pbs and far shot are remnants from when the class was merged with Master Thrower for a single 10lvl prc.
Kamin_Majere
10-13-07, 01:29 PM If you have a nice dm and play a (lesser) drow you could either take the Drow Skirmisher Feat (Secret's of Xen'drick) or Exotic Weapon Prof (Drow Longknife) for some nice daggers: 1d6 instead of 1d4 (rest is the same). This lets you qualify for Exotic Weapon Master's Twin Exotic Weapon trick (lessens your twf penalty by 1). If your dm's nice he/she might let you use drow long knife's in the Invisble Blade class.

Whats the point? Your not really getting a damage boost from that. And your taking things that will weaken the over all character. The diffrence between 1d4 and 1d6 is pretty insignificant.

But with daggers an a halfling (1d3 daggers) you can add ALOT of punch to them with the right set of classes and feats. (espically adding in 3 levels of halfling paragon)

Swashbuckler 3 and the Shadow Blade feat with sword sage 2), allows you to add your STR, DEX, and INT bonus to damage. With a few fighter levels (4 to be exact) you can specialize in the dagger and pick up focus to qualify for Range Weapon Mastery (technically you can take it with slashing and piercing as daggers do both)

Taking master thrower for the two with one blow, and the feats rapid shot and two weapon fighting. You now throw ALOT of daggers.

And each one of them will do 1d3 +STR+DEX+INT+2 (specialization) +1 (Precise Shot) +2 (ranged Weapon Mastery Piercing) +2 (Ranged Weapon Mastery Slashing) +2 (Halfling Paragon)
And i'm probably forgetting something but 1d3+STR+DEX+INT+9 isnt bad for a dagger

So whats the point of careing about the actual dagger damage? You more than make up for it with everythig else you put into it and the extra 1 or 2 damage you'll do with a d6 isnt really that important.

Its a build that requires quite a few levels to pull off but is quite nice when it finally comes together (or if your playing a high level campaign) And it almost demands the gauntlets of Infinite daggers fromt eh MIC unless your going to carry around 100ish daggers with you :D
Garonak
10-13-07, 03:27 PM The point was that you both get a higher dmg die and you can lessen you're twf penalty by one. Anyone can take exotic weapon prof.
You're build except 1d4 instead of 1d3 and better attack modifier.
EjoThims
10-13-07, 04:55 PM Don't focus on Dex or Dex to damage builds.

Get Power Throw and Brutal Throw.

You now make ranged attack with Str (though you gain no bonus to damage from it, since you're using Weak Spot and Palm Throw), and you can PA your throws.
Kamin_Majere
10-13-07, 05:36 PM yeah, but strength is such a weak stat. The only thing STR controls is To Hit and Damage. (not counting its limited skill list)

DEX gives you To hit, Damage, Reflex Save, AC, Initiative

I would much rather spend the time to pump a stat that controls so much more than strength does. Especially when there are so many classes and abilities out there that let you stack other stats like WIS and INT to so many things.

For a STR build i would look at using something besides Daggers. The PrC in tome of battle that lets you throw any weapons (cant remember its name) would be a build for that type of character. But if your going STR then a hulk-less hurler would be the more sensible thing to do.
Kaleran1277
10-13-07, 10:33 PM Hallo!
Try these ideas!
1) Weapon Finesse: It let's you add dex on your to-hit rolls, rather than str-still no help by itself for damage though...

2) Improved Critical: A dagger has a natural crit range of 19-20, with this feat you will have 17-20 instead! Much better damage in the long term, and you can use it with any dagger you get your hands on, not just one enchanted with "keen" enhancement.

3) Quick Draw: Let's you throw as fast as an archer can shoot! As an archer specialist it's my advice that if you take this feat, then you really should take this next one...

4) Rapid Shot: Adds one more attack-per-round at a piddling cost of a -2 to hit with each attack that round...

5) Point Blank Shot: +1 to strike and damage within 30 feet(6 squares)!

6) Far Shot: Double the range incremement.

7) Telling Blow: requires only the ability to have sneak attack. It lets you add your sneak attack damage when you score a critical hit.

8) Deadeye Shot: Requires a couple feats and a base attack bonus that the rogue doesn't attain until level 6. It lets you ready an action to attack when an ally hits, you can also do a sneak attack.
- Quoted from Bowmore

9) Take master thrower prc: It's all good for you dagger-tossin' lot!

10) The dodge, mobility, spring attack feat chain isn't bad either. Just choose a few of these ideas, write 'em up on paper to see how the numbers look, and then make your choices.
Ninja_Ferret
10-13-07, 11:05 PM uumm why are people telling him weapon finesse? (other then probably for a PrC) since a thrown weapon is a ranged attack wouldnt he already be using his dex to hit?
Operation_Shoestring
10-14-07, 06:33 AM There's a 10 level version of the Invisible Blade on waking lands.

Either version of the IB boost your range increment for knives.
Kamin_Majere
10-14-07, 07:45 AM uumm why are people telling him weapon finesse? (other then probably for a PrC) since a thrown weapon is a ranged attack wouldnt he already be using his dex to hit?

Because sometimes you still actually have to get in melee. If the bad guys sees how well you throw daggers, eventually they are going to start charging you so you cant.

Thats when Weapon Finesse comes into play, and your just as good (for the most part) in Melee as with Ranged.

The dagger is truely a great weapon. Back them up with a light mace and you have all damage types covered (or a club as you can throw those as well) The problem is like an archer though, Damage reduction that you cant by pass will pretty much shut you down.
I solved this by having a rogue obsessive about collecting daggers. I eventually had one made with almost all types of materials (star metal and the metal that can suck in a soul i never got though :( ) I even had a dagger made of Copper, one of Gold, and one of Platinum. Completely useless but so intresting for character back story... i loved daggers:D
Rolof
10-14-07, 10:33 AM Take 4 levels in figher for weapon specialization and ranged weapon mastery
like Hsien was talking about, in addition to that, at first level of fighter there
is now an alternative ability: you can trade out your heavy armor and tower
shield proficiency for something called hit and run tactics, which adds your
dex bonus to damage against flatfooted targets, and gives you an initiative
boost to help you pull it off as well.

I don't want to violate terms, so for more info on that see the new Drow of
the Underdark book.

Telling blow was another good suggestion.

In theory, if you're willing to blow a wasted feat on weapon focus: bow (one
of the requirements for entry), you could even go into the Order of the Bow
Initiate, the wording states that all the abilities work with any ranged weapon
the initiate has weapon focus with. So as long as you also had weapon focus:
dagger, you could throw daggers with the initiate's abilities, such as precision
damage/close combat shot.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fenrir_Greyback 10-12-07, 10:01 AM	Is there anywhere a feat or skill that gives you bonuses on knife throwing? I have a rogue who loves knifes, and throwing them, has ranks in preform(weapon drill, Knife) but doesn't have a good STR bonus therefore does almost no damage and my luck wiht d20s isn't particularly good either. So, are there any feats out there or anything someones made up that I could suggest to my DM? she's very open minded, and providing that I had everything mapped out she'd take it. so are there any feats or skill that you can think of or have seen made up that would enhance ones knife throwing abilities?
The_Wrath_of_Talos 10-12-07, 10:19 AM	Weapon focus adds a +1 to your attack, point blank shot will also add a +1 to your ranged attack within 30ft. You should also look into the master thrower class out of the complete warrior. Also look up the feats:quicker than the eye, craven and flick of the wrist. You really cant add a whole lot of damage to a dagger without enchanments or sneak attack so your best bet is to invest in a bandoleer and stock up on daggers so you can turn your enemies into a pin coushins. Maybe you can convince ur DM to make one time use daggers that explode dealing damage, like that javelin that has one use and does 3D6 elec damage.
Ninja_Ferret 10-12-07, 10:57 AM	Far shot increases the range increment by 10 (basicly it doubles the daggers thrown range) Yeah weapon focus and point blank like the other person said. I know there are more. Most Ranged feats also apply to thrown weapons. But not all of them.
LSMFT 10-12-07, 11:19 AM	You're a rogue. If you want to do better damage, don't worry about making your knives better. Work out better ways to deny the baddie his dexterity and your damage will incease accordingly.
Kamin_Majere 10-12-07, 11:31 AM	If you want good daggers you have to stack classes. Rogue/Sword Sage/(if you can)Swashbuckler/Master Thrower Rogue give you skill points and sneak attack Sword Sage gives you access to the feat Shadow Blade which allows you to add your STR and DEX damage to daggers Swashbuckler allows you to add INT damage to finesseable weapons And master thrower is just nice because the throwing tricks. With things like two weapon fighting, rapid shot, and double throw you can basically throw daggers like a machine gun. And if you need to you can actually go melee a bit and not be "too" worried.
WarColonel 10-12-07, 11:46 AM	Rogue/Swash/Invisiable Blade/Master Thrower Best dagger thrower out there, plus the invis blade lets you do a little melee.
Hsien 10-12-07, 12:04 PM	Rogue/Swash/Invisiable Blade/Master Thrower Best dagger thrower out there, plus the invis blade lets you do a little melee. That's a good set up but as always "best" is debatable. My dagger thrower is currently a Rogue 4 /Fighter 4/ Swash 3/ MT 5 ( took fighter for extra feats and Wpn Spec..and took Ranged Mastery +2 Hit/+2 damage which stacks with Focus/Spec and gives +20 Range Incrament. My group doesn't use ToB but for what I can use I wouldn't change him at all; although I am looking to possibly start into Invis Blade. MT trick suggestions: Ranged Trip; do damage then check for trip Deadeye Shot; increases crit multiplier by one (x3 for daggers) Weak Spot ( at 5 MT) Palm Throw is not bad but it doesn't make my list because it burns a lot of daggers, and precision damage only applies once (per errata). My group interpretted that each dagger also has to overcome any DR speerately though.
Bowmore 10-13-07, 12:09 AM	Try these two feats, from Player's Handbook II: Telling Blow: requires only the ability to have sneak attack. It lets you add your sneak attack damage when you score a critical hit. Deadeye Shot: Requires a couple feats and a base attack bonus that the rogue doesn't attain until level 6. It lets you ready an action to attack when an ally hits, you can also do a sneak attack. I dunno how vague I have to be in describing these feats, but they're worth looking into if you want more situations in which you can perform sneak attack.
EjoThims 10-13-07, 09:11 AM	Palm Throw, Two with One Blow, and Weak Spot are the best MT tricks. Trip Shot, Two with One Blow, and Weak Spot make a close second combination wise. Palm Throw is so wonderful because while precision damage only works once, enchantments still work per weapon. And MTs are so wonderful with explosive, exit wound weapons. Two daggers per attack, that hit two people as a touch attack. And they each explode with each hit (four explosions for one attack roll), and you can attack anyone behind them as well. Works wonders in wreaking havoc on troop formations.
Garonak 10-13-07, 09:46 AM	If you have a nice dm and play a (lesser) drow you could either take the Drow Skirmisher Feat (Secret's of Xen'drick) or Exotic Weapon Prof (Drow Longknife) for some nice daggers: 1d6 instead of 1d4 (rest is the same). This lets you qualify for Exotic Weapon Master's Twin Exotic Weapon trick (lessens your twf penalty by 1). If your dm's nice he/she might let you use drow long knife's in the Invisble Blade class. And remember: Invisible Blade's requirements needs to be errataed, the class designer says that Far Shot and Point Blank Shot should be replaced by Weapon Finesse in the class requirements, pbs and far shot are remnants from when the class was merged with Master Thrower for a single 10lvl prc.
Kamin_Majere 10-13-07, 01:29 PM	If you have a nice dm and play a (lesser) drow you could either take the Drow Skirmisher Feat (Secret's of Xen'drick) or Exotic Weapon Prof (Drow Longknife) for some nice daggers: 1d6 instead of 1d4 (rest is the same). This lets you qualify for Exotic Weapon Master's Twin Exotic Weapon trick (lessens your twf penalty by 1). If your dm's nice he/she might let you use drow long knife's in the Invisble Blade class. Whats the point? Your not really getting a damage boost from that. And your taking things that will weaken the over all character. The diffrence between 1d4 and 1d6 is pretty insignificant. But with daggers an a halfling (1d3 daggers) you can add ALOT of punch to them with the right set of classes and feats. (espically adding in 3 levels of halfling paragon) Swashbuckler 3 and the Shadow Blade feat with sword sage 2), allows you to add your STR, DEX, and INT bonus to damage. With a few fighter levels (4 to be exact) you can specialize in the dagger and pick up focus to qualify for Range Weapon Mastery (technically you can take it with slashing and piercing as daggers do both) Taking master thrower for the two with one blow, and the feats rapid shot and two weapon fighting. You now throw ALOT of daggers. And each one of them will do 1d3 +STR+DEX+INT+2 (specialization) +1 (Precise Shot) +2 (ranged Weapon Mastery Piercing) +2 (Ranged Weapon Mastery Slashing) +2 (Halfling Paragon) And i'm probably forgetting something but 1d3+STR+DEX+INT+9 isnt bad for a dagger So whats the point of careing about the actual dagger damage? You more than make up for it with everythig else you put into it and the extra 1 or 2 damage you'll do with a d6 isnt really that important. Its a build that requires quite a few levels to pull off but is quite nice when it finally comes together (or if your playing a high level campaign) And it almost demands the gauntlets of Infinite daggers fromt eh MIC unless your going to carry around 100ish daggers with you :D
Garonak 10-13-07, 03:27 PM	The point was that you both get a higher dmg die and you can lessen you're twf penalty by one. Anyone can take exotic weapon prof. You're build except 1d4 instead of 1d3 and better attack modifier.
EjoThims 10-13-07, 04:55 PM	Don't focus on Dex or Dex to damage builds. Get Power Throw and Brutal Throw. You now make ranged attack with Str (though you gain no bonus to damage from it, since you're using Weak Spot and Palm Throw), and you can PA your throws.
Kamin_Majere 10-13-07, 05:36 PM	yeah, but strength is such a weak stat. The only thing STR controls is To Hit and Damage. (not counting its limited skill list) DEX gives you To hit, Damage, Reflex Save, AC, Initiative I would much rather spend the time to pump a stat that controls so much more than strength does. Especially when there are so many classes and abilities out there that let you stack other stats like WIS and INT to so many things. For a STR build i would look at using something besides Daggers. The PrC in tome of battle that lets you throw any weapons (cant remember its name) would be a build for that type of character. But if your going STR then a hulk-less hurler would be the more sensible thing to do.
Kaleran1277 10-13-07, 10:33 PM	Hallo! Try these ideas! 1) Weapon Finesse: It let's you add dex on your to-hit rolls, rather than str-still no help by itself for damage though... 2) Improved Critical: A dagger has a natural crit range of 19-20, with this feat you will have 17-20 instead! Much better damage in the long term, and you can use it with any dagger you get your hands on, not just one enchanted with "keen" enhancement. 3) Quick Draw: Let's you throw as fast as an archer can shoot! As an archer specialist it's my advice that if you take this feat, then you really should take this next one... 4) Rapid Shot: Adds one more attack-per-round at a piddling cost of a -2 to hit with each attack that round... 5) Point Blank Shot: +1 to strike and damage within 30 feet(6 squares)! 6) Far Shot: Double the range incremement. 7) Telling Blow: requires only the ability to have sneak attack. It lets you add your sneak attack damage when you score a critical hit. 8) Deadeye Shot: Requires a couple feats and a base attack bonus that the rogue doesn't attain until level 6. It lets you ready an action to attack when an ally hits, you can also do a sneak attack. - Quoted from Bowmore 9) Take master thrower prc: It's all good for you dagger-tossin' lot! 10) The dodge, mobility, spring attack feat chain isn't bad either. Just choose a few of these ideas, write 'em up on paper to see how the numbers look, and then make your choices.
Ninja_Ferret 10-13-07, 11:05 PM	uumm why are people telling him weapon finesse? (other then probably for a PrC) since a thrown weapon is a ranged attack wouldnt he already be using his dex to hit?
Operation_Shoestring 10-14-07, 06:33 AM	There's a 10 level version of the Invisible Blade on waking lands. Either version of the IB boost your range increment for knives.
Kamin_Majere 10-14-07, 07:45 AM	uumm why are people telling him weapon finesse? (other then probably for a PrC) since a thrown weapon is a ranged attack wouldnt he already be using his dex to hit? Because sometimes you still actually have to get in melee. If the bad guys sees how well you throw daggers, eventually they are going to start charging you so you cant. Thats when Weapon Finesse comes into play, and your just as good (for the most part) in Melee as with Ranged. The dagger is truely a great weapon. Back them up with a light mace and you have all damage types covered (or a club as you can throw those as well) The problem is like an archer though, Damage reduction that you cant by pass will pretty much shut you down. I solved this by having a rogue obsessive about collecting daggers. I eventually had one made with almost all types of materials (star metal and the metal that can suck in a soul i never got though :( ) I even had a dagger made of Copper, one of Gold, and one of Platinum. Completely useless but so intresting for character back story... i loved daggers:D
Rolof 10-14-07, 10:33 AM	Take 4 levels in figher for weapon specialization and ranged weapon mastery like Hsien was talking about, in addition to that, at first level of fighter there is now an alternative ability: you can trade out your heavy armor and tower shield proficiency for something called hit and run tactics, which adds your dex bonus to damage against flatfooted targets, and gives you an initiative boost to help you pull it off as well. I don't want to violate terms, so for more info on that see the new Drow of the Underdark book. Telling blow was another good suggestion. In theory, if you're willing to blow a wasted feat on weapon focus: bow (one of the requirements for entry), you could even go into the Order of the Bow Initiate, the wording states that all the abilities work with any ranged weapon the initiate has weapon focus with. So as long as you also had weapon focus: dagger, you could throw daggers with the initiate's abilities, such as precision damage/close combat shot.