leadership & followers. [Archive] - Wizards Community

leadership & followers. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
xpochian
03-29-08, 10:37 PM i'm the DM of a mid-level campaign and i've never liked 3e followers as it leaves me dealing with a huge horde of nobodies and i feel it really bogs the game down. i'm considering ruling that leadership can give the player only a single cohort - with no followers - but they are PC level -1 instead of PC level -2. is this far, unfair?

does anyone have any experience with the above and how it plays out in the game?

thanks for your opinions!
X0_Lt_0X
03-29-08, 10:47 PM keep it at a -2.

AND FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY DONT LET THE PCs USE THERE FOLLOWERS IN AN ENCOUNTER!!!!!!!

Cohorts are all right.

Leadership, is a really powerful feat. but can be abbused so easily.
For example, a player in a campaign I played in tryed to get his CHA as high as possible, so he could take all there money...

I suggest you monitor the creation of the Cohort, and give him equipment of your choice.

As for the followers, let them be used for thing like, um, guarding the parties keep, or as the crew for a ship.
X0_Lt_0X
03-29-08, 10:49 PM Oh and don't allow them to be mindless Zombies.
xpochian
03-29-08, 11:04 PM i see, so generally leadership at -2 with followers wouldn't be balanced by leadership at -1 without followers?

some background: the cohort is a drow priestess who's used the LA buyback from unearthed arcana. she's more flavour-based as opposed to hard optimization and was mostly generated to fit the story line with equal input from both myself and the player - i think i can trust the PC, she's the wife. ;)

secondly, the current PC group is only 3 with the cohort, with PC levels currently being 10, 9 and 8 - the last being the cohort. i felt that maybe, for this unique situation, since they need all the help they can get, it wouldn't overly ruin anything?

in my other campaign with 5 players, i'd not dream of what i mentioned above as i know they'd...well, they'd run with it. :)
X0_Lt_0X
03-29-08, 11:13 PM i see, so generally leadership at -2 with followers wouldn't be balanced by leadership at -1 without followers?

some background: the cohort is a drow priestess who's used the LA buyback from unearthed arcana. she's more flavour-based as opposed to hard optimization and was mostly generated to fit the story line with equal input from both myself and the player - i think i can trust the PC, she's the wife. ;)

secondly, the current PC group is only 3 with the cohort, with PC levels currently being 10, 9 and 8 - the last being the cohort. i felt that maybe, for this unique situation, since they need all the help they can get, it wouldn't overly ruin anything?

in my other campaign with 5 players, i'd not dream of what i mentioned above as i know they'd...well, they'd run with it. :)

No, just dont allow followers all to together.
They break combat.
Baninor
03-30-08, 11:08 AM Followers only work in a few cases.
A: Grand War style campaign and use them in your army.
B: PC's have a base of operations
C: Don't have them following you and consider them "Contacts" aka go to a city the person with leadership might have a contact or 2 in a city he can ask for favors or you could use as a plot hook.

B is divided basically into Keep (guardsmen, butlers, maids, cooks), Wizard Tower (Wizards, Wizards, Wizards), Temple (Clerics, Adepts, guards, alter boys) or anything else you can think of.
Kratch
03-30-08, 12:15 PM Followers only work in a few cases.
A: Grand War style campaign and use them in your army.
B: PC's have a base of operations
C: Don't have them following you and consider them "Contacts" aka go to a city the person with leadership might have a contact or 2 in a city he can ask for favors or you could use as a plot hook.

B is divided basically into Keep (guardsmen, butlers, maids, cooks), Wizard Tower (Wizards, Wizards, Wizards), Temple (Clerics, Adepts, guards, alter boys) or anything else you can think of.

Agreed. It's also unrealistic to have all the followers following the PC, except in a large war style campaign (see Heroes of battle), as the Followers need to be sheltered and fed, right along with the PC. Walking into town with 150 people following you is going to cause social issues, and is going to cost the PC a large quantity of money on food/shelter, since, if they are following the PC, they are not earning/producing any income/food to provide for themselves, and are not able to settle into their keep, because they don't have one and are constantly moving, thus, the PC becomes responsible for these (it's him/her their following).

As I believe followers are best used as NPC's inhabitants of a PC's homebase (soldiers, officers, servants, farmers, craftsman, etc), I believe they are not intended to influence combat at all (except in the case of war campaigns, but that has a different set of rules), removing the followers and improving the cohort is not a good idea.

This is of course, my personal opinion.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
xpochian 03-29-08, 10:37 PM	i'm the DM of a mid-level campaign and i've never liked 3e followers as it leaves me dealing with a huge horde of nobodies and i feel it really bogs the game down. i'm considering ruling that leadership can give the player only a single cohort - with no followers - but they are PC level -1 instead of PC level -2. is this far, unfair? does anyone have any experience with the above and how it plays out in the game? thanks for your opinions!
X0_Lt_0X 03-29-08, 10:47 PM	keep it at a -2. AND FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY DONT LET THE PCs USE THERE FOLLOWERS IN AN ENCOUNTER!!!!!!! Cohorts are all right. Leadership, is a really powerful feat. but can be abbused so easily. For example, a player in a campaign I played in tryed to get his CHA as high as possible, so he could take all there money... I suggest you monitor the creation of the Cohort, and give him equipment of your choice. As for the followers, let them be used for thing like, um, guarding the parties keep, or as the crew for a ship.
X0_Lt_0X 03-29-08, 10:49 PM	Oh and don't allow them to be mindless Zombies.
xpochian 03-29-08, 11:04 PM	i see, so generally leadership at -2 with followers wouldn't be balanced by leadership at -1 without followers? some background: the cohort is a drow priestess who's used the LA buyback from unearthed arcana. she's more flavour-based as opposed to hard optimization and was mostly generated to fit the story line with equal input from both myself and the player - i think i can trust the PC, she's the wife. ;) secondly, the current PC group is only 3 with the cohort, with PC levels currently being 10, 9 and 8 - the last being the cohort. i felt that maybe, for this unique situation, since they need all the help they can get, it wouldn't overly ruin anything? in my other campaign with 5 players, i'd not dream of what i mentioned above as i know they'd...well, they'd run with it. :)
X0_Lt_0X 03-29-08, 11:13 PM	i see, so generally leadership at -2 with followers wouldn't be balanced by leadership at -1 without followers? some background: the cohort is a drow priestess who's used the LA buyback from unearthed arcana. she's more flavour-based as opposed to hard optimization and was mostly generated to fit the story line with equal input from both myself and the player - i think i can trust the PC, she's the wife. ;) secondly, the current PC group is only 3 with the cohort, with PC levels currently being 10, 9 and 8 - the last being the cohort. i felt that maybe, for this unique situation, since they need all the help they can get, it wouldn't overly ruin anything? in my other campaign with 5 players, i'd not dream of what i mentioned above as i know they'd...well, they'd run with it. :) No, just dont allow followers all to together. They break combat.
Baninor 03-30-08, 11:08 AM	Followers only work in a few cases. A: Grand War style campaign and use them in your army. B: PC's have a base of operations C: Don't have them following you and consider them "Contacts" aka go to a city the person with leadership might have a contact or 2 in a city he can ask for favors or you could use as a plot hook. B is divided basically into Keep (guardsmen, butlers, maids, cooks), Wizard Tower (Wizards, Wizards, Wizards), Temple (Clerics, Adepts, guards, alter boys) or anything else you can think of.
Kratch 03-30-08, 12:15 PM	Followers only work in a few cases. A: Grand War style campaign and use them in your army. B: PC's have a base of operations C: Don't have them following you and consider them "Contacts" aka go to a city the person with leadership might have a contact or 2 in a city he can ask for favors or you could use as a plot hook. B is divided basically into Keep (guardsmen, butlers, maids, cooks), Wizard Tower (Wizards, Wizards, Wizards), Temple (Clerics, Adepts, guards, alter boys) or anything else you can think of. Agreed. It's also unrealistic to have all the followers following the PC, except in a large war style campaign (see Heroes of battle), as the Followers need to be sheltered and fed, right along with the PC. Walking into town with 150 people following you is going to cause social issues, and is going to cost the PC a large quantity of money on food/shelter, since, if they are following the PC, they are not earning/producing any income/food to provide for themselves, and are not able to settle into their keep, because they don't have one and are constantly moving, thus, the PC becomes responsible for these (it's him/her their following). As I believe followers are best used as NPC's inhabitants of a PC's homebase (soldiers, officers, servants, farmers, craftsman, etc), I believe they are not intended to influence combat at all (except in the case of war campaigns, but that has a different set of rules), removing the followers and improving the cohort is not a good idea. This is of course, my personal opinion.