Leadership and cohort starting gold. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Leadership and cohort starting gold. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gadren
09-05-07, 02:39 AM I am confused, I could have sworn that it says somewhere that cohorts get no starting gold, but now I can't seem to find that rule anywhere.

Someone help me out? Or am I imagining it?
runestar
09-05-07, 04:32 AM I do not think that it is stated how much they are equipped with, so it may have to depend on your DM's generosity.:P
Gadren
09-05-07, 01:39 PM Hmmm... Anyone else got input?
Kouk
09-05-07, 07:59 PM I think it would be silly for them to have no starting gold, because they would then be naked when they came to you. Would kind of make you wonder why a guy just 2 levels lower than you arrives naked on your doorstep one day. Apparently that guy isn't that smart, if he lost all his gear.

Right in the Leadership feat description, it says this:
Cohort Level

The character can attract a cohort of up to this level. Regardless of a character’s Leadership score, he can only recruit a cohort who is two or more levels lower than himself. The cohort should be equipped with gear appropriate for its level. A character can try to attract a cohort of a particular race, class, and alignment. The cohort’s alignment may not be opposed to the leader’s alignment on either the law-vs-chaos or good-vs-evil axis, and the leader takes a Leadership penalty if he recruits a cohort of an alignment different from his own.

"Appropriate" might be interpreted as he comes equipped as an NPC with wealth equal to his CR, or he comes with the full money determined by the Wealth-By-Level chart.

If you use Table 3-3: Treasure Values per Encounter on page 51 of the DMG, he should have enough cash to be equipped sort of OK. If you use the Character Wealth by Level chart on page 135, he will be exceptionally well equipped.

I would probably use the Encounter level of wealth, because presumably the Cohort should be some kind of investment for the raw power it brings (Leadership is the strongest feat if the player makes his own Cohort).

EDIT: Opening up to the feat in my DMG, I see in the small text under the table on page 106 "Cohort Level: The character can attract a cohort of up to this level. .... The cohort should be equipped with gear appropriate for its level (see Table 4-23: NPC Gear Value, page 127)

So that would be the official answer then.

I am tempted to still go with the Encounter wealth though, you can get a fair amount of stuff with that.

I would definitely recommend you monitor what the NPC is starting with, so he doesn't just happen to have spare magic items that are perfect for his new boss, or a glut of potions he doesn't particularly need himself, but that the party needs.

The Cohort should spend all his money on himself, with very little pure cash left over.
bloodtalon
09-05-07, 09:35 PM i kinda like 2E when it came to ehnchmen now cohorts
they are down on thier luck and only have the clothes on thier backs and a few silver and copper pieces. it was up to the player to equip the henchman. the better the equipment the more loyal they were.
could allways go that way with the cohort and it is only 2 levels below you if you have high cha and no penealties
if you have alot fo them like a paladin with a warhorse (one he calls) and moves around alot that is like -4 to the leadership table so he could be a 6th level paladin and only canget a 1st level corhort
Gadren
09-05-07, 09:48 PM I think it would be silly for them to have no starting gold, because they would then be naked when they came to you. Would kind of make you wonder why a guy just 2 levels lower than you arrives naked on your doorstep one day. Apparently that guy isn't that smart, if he lost all his gear.

Right in the Leadership feat description, it says this:

"Appropriate" might be interpreted as he comes equipped as an NPC with wealth equal to his CR, or he comes with the full money determined by the Wealth-By-Level chart.

If you use Table 3-3: Treasure Values per Encounter on page 51 of the DMG, he should have enough cash to be equipped sort of OK. If you use the Character Wealth by Level chart on page 135, he will be exceptionally well equipped.

I would probably use the Encounter level of wealth, because presumably the Cohort should be some kind of investment for the raw power it brings (Leadership is the strongest feat if the player makes his own Cohort).

EDIT: Opening up to the feat in my DMG, I see in the small text under the table on page 106 "Cohort Level: The character can attract a cohort of up to this level. .... The cohort should be equipped with gear appropriate for its level (see Table 4-23: NPC Gear Value, page 127)

So that would be the official answer then.

I am tempted to still go with the Encounter wealth though, you can get a fair amount of stuff with that.

I would definitely recommend you monitor what the NPC is starting with, so he doesn't just happen to have spare magic items that are perfect for his new boss, or a glut of potions he doesn't particularly need himself, but that the party needs.

The Cohort should spend all his money on himself, with very little pure cash left over.

Interesting. If they start with NPC gold appropriate to their level, wouldn't it be most advantageous to the PC to dismiss and re-attract a cohort each level, instead of spending their own cash (or giving them a share of the treasure, which other PCs won't be crazy about) to keep them appropriately equipped?
StruckingFuggle
09-05-07, 09:53 PM I was wondering something along those lines, too.

Are Cohorts expected to gain treasure to keep them in line with npc wealth + whatever else the PC gives 'em on top of it? Or once they arrive do they just get 'scraps' from the PC?
Kouk
09-06-07, 01:52 AM if you have alot fo them like a paladin with a warhorse (one he calls) and moves around alot that is like -4 to the leadership table so he could be a 6th level paladin and only canget a 1st level corhort

The "moves around a lot" penalty is only for Followers, Cohorts just go wherever you do. Though would a Paladin still take a Leadership penalty for having a special mount, if the cohort he wants is his special mount? Hehe. "You give me too much attention! I need more space!"

I would think that if a player arbitrarily dismisses his Cohorts to get better equipped ones, that will negatively impact his Leadership score.

Leadership Modifiers

Several factors can affect a character’s Leadership score, causing it to vary from the base score (character level + Cha modifier). A character’s reputation (from the point of view of the cohort or follower he is trying to attract) raises or lowers his Leadership score, see Table: Reputation.

I think "fires his employees indiscriminately" would be worth at least a -1 on Reputation.

About loot, page 105 of the DMG says that the typical Cohort will ask for a half-share of the loot. Other systems might be worked out, depending on the nature of the guy I suppose.

I would expect that a Cohort would tend to get the leftovers, but the DM is free to rule that he demands his fair share of the loot (and the DM should probably increase loot slightly if the Cohort makes that demand).

Even though the Cohort is theoretically under the command of the player, I think the DM should reserve the right to veto anything he doesn't think the Cohort would do. Cohorts are still NPCs after all...

I would say let the players handle the tactical combat situations, but the DM should be ready to step in for unreasonable requests. At the least, the DM might pipe in with some RP every now and again if the player doesn't play the role of his Cohort in addition to his own character. :P
HobbitGuy1420
09-06-07, 11:10 AM The DM of the party will need to design encounters with the cohort in mind - if the party was originally a 4-member party, it's now a 5-member party... or at least 4-and-a-half. Encounters will have to be that much more difficult, and supply that much more treasure. I'd say, purely for RP purposes, that constantly giving the Cohort the dregs of the treasure barrel won't endear you to him - if I were DMing, I might levy a (temporary, at least) -1 to the player's Leadership Score. The Cohort is supposed to be a trusted ally, sidekick, and confidante, not a disregarded errand-boy.

all IMO, of course.
Gadren
09-07-07, 04:23 PM About loot, page 105 of the DMG says that the typical Cohort will ask for a half-share of the loot. Other systems might be worked out, depending on the nature of the guy I suppose.

Ah, there it is. I couldn't find it in the SRD, guess it's only in the DMG.

I would expect that a Cohort would tend to get the leftovers, but the DM is free to rule that he demands his fair share of the loot (and the DM should probably increase loot slightly if the Cohort makes that demand).
The problem is, if the cohort asks for a half share of all treasure, the whole party gets less treasure because one player took a feat... hmm....

Even though the Cohort is theoretically under the command of the player, I think the DM should reserve the right to veto anything he doesn't think the Cohort would do. Cohorts are still NPCs after all...

I would say let the players handle the tactical combat situations, but the DM should be ready to step in for unreasonable requests. At the least, the DM might pipe in with some RP every now and again if the player doesn't play the role of his Cohort in addition to his own character. :P

Thats already what I do. :)

The DM of the party will need to design encounters with the cohort in mind - if the party was originally a 4-member party, it's now a 5-member party... or at least 4-and-a-half. Encounters will have to be that much more difficult, and supply that much more treasure. I'd say, purely for RP purposes, that constantly giving the Cohort the dregs of the treasure barrel won't endear you to him - if I were DMing, I might levy a (temporary, at least) -1 to the player's Leadership Score. The Cohort is supposed to be a trusted ally, sidekick, and confidante, not a disregarded errand-boy.

all IMO, of course.

I don't think the DM should have to make harder encounters if the player chooses the Leadership feat instead of a different feat. Then again, I also don't believe in letting a player design their cohort, they can try to attract a certain type ("I'm looking for a wizard", or "Can I inspire that Holy Liberator to join my cause?" , but I usually write the Cohort stats up myself.
Gadren
09-07-07, 04:35 PM Thanks for everyone's help. I've decided to have the cohort demand treasure from the PC between adventures, making him (the PC) miserable when she is underpaid, and mostly shutting up when her treasure level is appropriate for her level.

Basically, how the cohort gets her share is the PC's problem. :D
Kouk
09-08-07, 12:32 AM Thanks for everyone's help. I've decided to have the cohort demand treasure from the PC between adventures, making him (the PC) miserable when she is underpaid, and mostly shutting up when her treasure level is appropriate for her level.

Basically, how the cohort gets her share is the PC's problem. :D

Leadership is not just a feat, it is the most powerful single feat.

A Cohort is definitely just like having another player joins the group and just happens to play a character 2 levels below another character - which is not unheard of in groups where people die or don't attend sessions all the time.

You really do have to consider that the party is effectively bigger. This is said on page 106 "Be sure to consider the effect of a PC having a cohort. A cohort is effectively another PC in the party under that player's control, one whose share of XP, treasure, and spotlight time is bound to take something away from the other players' characters."

Now, I think that the part about XP may just be a leftover from the 3.0 version, because Cohorts no longer affect the XP the "real" player characters get. But, the party is still effectively a higher level. This may mean you need to increase the CRs of the monsters you put them against somewhat.

Because it is such a powerful feat, you can choose to not add any more treasure and let having "another mouth to feed" be the balancing factor, but more characters with the same amount of treasure means all the players get less treasure, or at least one gets significantly less.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gadren 09-05-07, 02:39 AM	I am confused, I could have sworn that it says somewhere that cohorts get no starting gold, but now I can't seem to find that rule anywhere. Someone help me out? Or am I imagining it?
runestar 09-05-07, 04:32 AM	I do not think that it is stated how much they are equipped with, so it may have to depend on your DM's generosity.:P
Gadren 09-05-07, 01:39 PM	Hmmm... Anyone else got input?
Kouk 09-05-07, 07:59 PM	I think it would be silly for them to have no starting gold, because they would then be naked when they came to you. Would kind of make you wonder why a guy just 2 levels lower than you arrives naked on your doorstep one day. Apparently that guy isn't that smart, if he lost all his gear. Right in the Leadership feat description, it says this: Cohort Level The character can attract a cohort of up to this level. Regardless of a character’s Leadership score, he can only recruit a cohort who is two or more levels lower than himself. The cohort should be equipped with gear appropriate for its level. A character can try to attract a cohort of a particular race, class, and alignment. The cohort’s alignment may not be opposed to the leader’s alignment on either the law-vs-chaos or good-vs-evil axis, and the leader takes a Leadership penalty if he recruits a cohort of an alignment different from his own. "Appropriate" might be interpreted as he comes equipped as an NPC with wealth equal to his CR, or he comes with the full money determined by the Wealth-By-Level chart. If you use Table 3-3: Treasure Values per Encounter on page 51 of the DMG, he should have enough cash to be equipped sort of OK. If you use the Character Wealth by Level chart on page 135, he will be exceptionally well equipped. I would probably use the Encounter level of wealth, because presumably the Cohort should be some kind of investment for the raw power it brings (Leadership is the strongest feat if the player makes his own Cohort). EDIT: Opening up to the feat in my DMG, I see in the small text under the table on page 106 "Cohort Level: The character can attract a cohort of up to this level. .... The cohort should be equipped with gear appropriate for its level (see Table 4-23: NPC Gear Value, page 127) So that would be the official answer then. I am tempted to still go with the Encounter wealth though, you can get a fair amount of stuff with that. I would definitely recommend you monitor what the NPC is starting with, so he doesn't just happen to have spare magic items that are perfect for his new boss, or a glut of potions he doesn't particularly need himself, but that the party needs. The Cohort should spend all his money on himself, with very little pure cash left over.
bloodtalon 09-05-07, 09:35 PM	i kinda like 2E when it came to ehnchmen now cohorts they are down on thier luck and only have the clothes on thier backs and a few silver and copper pieces. it was up to the player to equip the henchman. the better the equipment the more loyal they were. could allways go that way with the cohort and it is only 2 levels below you if you have high cha and no penealties if you have alot fo them like a paladin with a warhorse (one he calls) and moves around alot that is like -4 to the leadership table so he could be a 6th level paladin and only canget a 1st level corhort
Gadren 09-05-07, 09:48 PM	I think it would be silly for them to have no starting gold, because they would then be naked when they came to you. Would kind of make you wonder why a guy just 2 levels lower than you arrives naked on your doorstep one day. Apparently that guy isn't that smart, if he lost all his gear. Right in the Leadership feat description, it says this: "Appropriate" might be interpreted as he comes equipped as an NPC with wealth equal to his CR, or he comes with the full money determined by the Wealth-By-Level chart. If you use Table 3-3: Treasure Values per Encounter on page 51 of the DMG, he should have enough cash to be equipped sort of OK. If you use the Character Wealth by Level chart on page 135, he will be exceptionally well equipped. I would probably use the Encounter level of wealth, because presumably the Cohort should be some kind of investment for the raw power it brings (Leadership is the strongest feat if the player makes his own Cohort). EDIT: Opening up to the feat in my DMG, I see in the small text under the table on page 106 "Cohort Level: The character can attract a cohort of up to this level. .... The cohort should be equipped with gear appropriate for its level (see Table 4-23: NPC Gear Value, page 127) So that would be the official answer then. I am tempted to still go with the Encounter wealth though, you can get a fair amount of stuff with that. I would definitely recommend you monitor what the NPC is starting with, so he doesn't just happen to have spare magic items that are perfect for his new boss, or a glut of potions he doesn't particularly need himself, but that the party needs. The Cohort should spend all his money on himself, with very little pure cash left over. Interesting. If they start with NPC gold appropriate to their level, wouldn't it be most advantageous to the PC to dismiss and re-attract a cohort each level, instead of spending their own cash (or giving them a share of the treasure, which other PCs won't be crazy about) to keep them appropriately equipped?
StruckingFuggle 09-05-07, 09:53 PM	I was wondering something along those lines, too. Are Cohorts expected to gain treasure to keep them in line with npc wealth + whatever else the PC gives 'em on top of it? Or once they arrive do they just get 'scraps' from the PC?
Kouk 09-06-07, 01:52 AM	if you have alot fo them like a paladin with a warhorse (one he calls) and moves around alot that is like -4 to the leadership table so he could be a 6th level paladin and only canget a 1st level corhort The "moves around a lot" penalty is only for Followers, Cohorts just go wherever you do. Though would a Paladin still take a Leadership penalty for having a special mount, if the cohort he wants is his special mount? Hehe. "You give me too much attention! I need more space!" I would think that if a player arbitrarily dismisses his Cohorts to get better equipped ones, that will negatively impact his Leadership score. Leadership Modifiers Several factors can affect a character’s Leadership score, causing it to vary from the base score (character level + Cha modifier). A character’s reputation (from the point of view of the cohort or follower he is trying to attract) raises or lowers his Leadership score, see Table: Reputation. I think "fires his employees indiscriminately" would be worth at least a -1 on Reputation. About loot, page 105 of the DMG says that the typical Cohort will ask for a half-share of the loot. Other systems might be worked out, depending on the nature of the guy I suppose. I would expect that a Cohort would tend to get the leftovers, but the DM is free to rule that he demands his fair share of the loot (and the DM should probably increase loot slightly if the Cohort makes that demand). Even though the Cohort is theoretically under the command of the player, I think the DM should reserve the right to veto anything he doesn't think the Cohort would do. Cohorts are still NPCs after all... I would say let the players handle the tactical combat situations, but the DM should be ready to step in for unreasonable requests. At the least, the DM might pipe in with some RP every now and again if the player doesn't play the role of his Cohort in addition to his own character. :P
HobbitGuy1420 09-06-07, 11:10 AM	The DM of the party will need to design encounters with the cohort in mind - if the party was originally a 4-member party, it's now a 5-member party... or at least 4-and-a-half. Encounters will have to be that much more difficult, and supply that much more treasure. I'd say, purely for RP purposes, that constantly giving the Cohort the dregs of the treasure barrel won't endear you to him - if I were DMing, I might levy a (temporary, at least) -1 to the player's Leadership Score. The Cohort is supposed to be a trusted ally, sidekick, and confidante, not a disregarded errand-boy. all IMO, of course.
Gadren 09-07-07, 04:23 PM	About loot, page 105 of the DMG says that the typical Cohort will ask for a half-share of the loot. Other systems might be worked out, depending on the nature of the guy I suppose. Ah, there it is. I couldn't find it in the SRD, guess it's only in the DMG. I would expect that a Cohort would tend to get the leftovers, but the DM is free to rule that he demands his fair share of the loot (and the DM should probably increase loot slightly if the Cohort makes that demand). The problem is, if the cohort asks for a half share of all treasure, the whole party gets less treasure because one player took a feat... hmm.... Even though the Cohort is theoretically under the command of the player, I think the DM should reserve the right to veto anything he doesn't think the Cohort would do. Cohorts are still NPCs after all... I would say let the players handle the tactical combat situations, but the DM should be ready to step in for unreasonable requests. At the least, the DM might pipe in with some RP every now and again if the player doesn't play the role of his Cohort in addition to his own character. :P Thats already what I do. :) The DM of the party will need to design encounters with the cohort in mind - if the party was originally a 4-member party, it's now a 5-member party... or at least 4-and-a-half. Encounters will have to be that much more difficult, and supply that much more treasure. I'd say, purely for RP purposes, that constantly giving the Cohort the dregs of the treasure barrel won't endear you to him - if I were DMing, I might levy a (temporary, at least) -1 to the player's Leadership Score. The Cohort is supposed to be a trusted ally, sidekick, and confidante, not a disregarded errand-boy. all IMO, of course. I don't think the DM should have to make harder encounters if the player chooses the Leadership feat instead of a different feat. Then again, I also don't believe in letting a player design their cohort, they can try to attract a certain type ("I'm looking for a wizard", or "Can I inspire that Holy Liberator to join my cause?" , but I usually write the Cohort stats up myself.
Gadren 09-07-07, 04:35 PM	Thanks for everyone's help. I've decided to have the cohort demand treasure from the PC between adventures, making him (the PC) miserable when she is underpaid, and mostly shutting up when her treasure level is appropriate for her level. Basically, how the cohort gets her share is the PC's problem. :D
Kouk 09-08-07, 12:32 AM	Thanks for everyone's help. I've decided to have the cohort demand treasure from the PC between adventures, making him (the PC) miserable when she is underpaid, and mostly shutting up when her treasure level is appropriate for her level. Basically, how the cohort gets her share is the PC's problem. :D Leadership is not just a feat, it is the most powerful single feat. A Cohort is definitely just like having another player joins the group and just happens to play a character 2 levels below another character - which is not unheard of in groups where people die or don't attend sessions all the time. You really do have to consider that the party is effectively bigger. This is said on page 106 "Be sure to consider the effect of a PC having a cohort. A cohort is effectively another PC in the party under that player's control, one whose share of XP, treasure, and spotlight time is bound to take something away from the other players' characters." Now, I think that the part about XP may just be a leftover from the 3.0 version, because Cohorts no longer affect the XP the "real" player characters get. But, the party is still effectively a higher level. This may mean you need to increase the CRs of the monsters you put them against somewhat. Because it is such a powerful feat, you can choose to not add any more treasure and let having "another mouth to feed" be the balancing factor, but more characters with the same amount of treasure means all the players get less treasure, or at least one gets significantly less.