Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kevtar 03-09-07, 06:54 PM	Hello all, *(Incidentally, I mistyped the title of this thread. I mean to say "mount" not "special mount.") I have a player who has decided to take the Leadership feat. I’ve worked out his Leadership Score, but I was wondering if someone could help me out with a couple of points. Here’s his Leadership Score: Great Renown +2 Special power +1 Cohort of different alignment -1 Has a stronghold +2 Moves around a lot -1 CHA mod +5 Lvl 16 TOTAL: 24 The questions I have are the following: 1.) The Special Power feature above, what would you think qualifies as special power? The Laying on Hands ability for instance? 2.) Did I figure out the ECL of his cohort correctly? (See Below) His cohort is his Special Mount, a Celestial Unicorn with levels in Cleric (like a Celestial Charger with without the 7 levels of Cleric). The PC can have a cohort of 14th level. I figured the ECL of the unicorn to be the following: 4 HD (Base HD) 2 HD (Celestial Template) 4 HD (Cleric Levels) 4 LA (Level Adjustment) 14 HD Total How does that look to you? Thanks.
paladin2019 03-09-07, 09:59 PM	I would rule the paladin's special mount could not be a cohort. This would be my blanket ruling. This specific example would also be illegal even if it weren't a mount. The ECL of the creature is 15 while the 16th level paladin is limited to a 14th (character level -2) level cohort. It would be legal on this basis in 3E, at 3E's level -1 maximum. EDIT: That'll teach me not to check your math. You offered 14 levels of modifiers but added it up to 15 levels. If the raw data is right, then yes this character is a legal cohort, but not a mount. If there is an extra +1 level I am not seeing, then no.
FrostHammer 03-09-07, 10:13 PM	I'm sure yuo can use Leadership to attract an intelligent mount or something...
Kevtar 03-10-07, 12:06 AM	I would rule the paladin's special mount could not be a cohort. This would be my blanket ruling. This specific example would also be illegal even if it weren't a mount. The ECL of the creature is 15 while the 16th level paladin is limited to a 14th (character level -2) level cohort. It would be legal on this basis in 3E, at 3E's level -1 maximum. EDIT: That'll teach me not to check your math. You offered 14 levels of modifiers but added it up to 15 levels. If the raw data is right, then yes this character is a legal cohort, but not a mount. If there is an extra +1 level I am not seeing, then no. Yeah, I had a couple of mis-typing instances there. This is NOT a special mount - he is a 15 lvl fighter/1 lvl Paladin. I also typed 15 HD when I meant 14, that's what I get for rushing. Anyway, my biggest concerns were what designates "special power" in the Leadership feat description and if the HD for the special cohort were added up correctly. Thanks for your input.
paladin2019 03-10-07, 12:18 AM	Okay, if this is not a creature granted by the class ability, go for it. As for special power, yes I think the healing may qualify. Check the actual feat description, though. I can't remember if examples are given for this modifier.
BlakesTiger 03-10-07, 07:29 AM	Not that it makes much difference in the final calculation, but you made a small error in calculating the Leadership score. There is a table for modifiers that affect the base leadership score when determining Cohorts and a separate table of modifiers when determining Followers. You put them all together. His Base Leadership score is 21 (Level + Cha Modifier). His modified Leadership score when determining maximum Cohort level is 23* 21 + 2 + 1 - 1 = 23 His modified Leadership score when determining Followers is 25* 21 + 2 + 1 + 2 - 1 = 25 *I'm not certain that Lay on Hands, a 1st Level Paladin ability, would qualify as a "Special Power." I would expect something more rare in the game world. Now, if that character was the first (or first in an Age) to become a paladin, then I'd be inclined otherwise. That being said, it's just my opinion, and I don't have the DMG to see if there is clarifying text to accompany the Table. However, the difference between 23 or 22 makes no difference in Cohort level (or 26 for that matter) since he's limited by his Character Level, and the difference between a score of 25 or 24 has a negligible difference in number of followers, so whether he does or does not have a "Special Power" becomes a moot point... ...and the unicorn Cohort looks appropriate, just make sure he treats it better than a mere horse and don't forget it has a personality.
Kevtar 03-10-07, 03:15 PM	Not that it makes much difference in the final calculation, but you made a small error in calculating the Leadership score. There is a table for modifiers that affect the base leadership score when determining Cohorts and a separate table of modifiers when determining Followers. You put them all together. His Base Leadership score is 21 (Level + Cha Modifier). His modified Leadership score when determining maximum Cohort level is 23* 21 + 2 + 1 - 1 = 23 His modified Leadership score when determining Followers is 25* 21 + 2 + 1 + 2 - 1 = 25 *I'm not certain that Lay on Hands, a 1st Level Paladin ability, would qualify as a "Special Power." I would expect something more rare in the game world. Now, if that character was the first (or first in an Age) to become a paladin, then I'd be inclined otherwise. That being said, it's just my opinion, and I don't have the DMG to see if there is clarifying text to accompany the Table. However, the difference between 23 or 22 makes no difference in Cohort level (or 26 for that matter) since he's limited by his Character Level, and the difference between a score of 25 or 24 has a negligible difference in number of followers, so whether he does or does not have a "Special Power" becomes a moot point... ...and the unicorn Cohort looks appropriate, just make sure he treats it better than a mere horse and don't forget it has a personality. Ah, great:) . Thanks for the input.
Derren S. 03-10-07, 04:42 PM	There are rules for the cohort being the special mount, but normally the mount does not have class levels even if it is able to have them. The special mount bonus is advancment enough. But as this is a normal mount those rules do not apply. I assume the character is female? Otherwise riding the unicorn could become a problem. But don't let that stop you. And I agree that Lay on Hands should not count as special power, otherwise nearly any PC would have a "special power". But like it was pointed out, it doesn't matter anyway.