Leadership - What are followers? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Leadership - What are followers? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Coridan
03-01-07, 06:05 PM In an evil game I'm playing we've all decided to take leadership so we can turn our little triad into a small evil organization. What exactly are followers? Can we try and recruit specific race/classes as followers? Do they have to be NPC classes or can they be rangers/barbarians/wizards/etc?

Is there anything else we should know?
Narthon
03-01-07, 08:46 PM You should probably speak to your DM about it.
Coridan
03-01-07, 10:13 PM I'm unfortunately the most experienced member of the group (I'm usually the DM, but not in this game). And even I don't know how it fully works.
Joseph_Silver
03-01-07, 10:41 PM Followers are basically low-level NPCs which are useful for mundane stuff. They're useless in a fight at your level, but they're useful for lots of cool stuff like information gathering, law enforcement, keeping your castle tidy, etc.
Coridan
03-01-07, 11:52 PM ok, but the big question is, can they be any class?
NerdNumber1
03-02-07, 12:01 AM As a rule of thumb, I use NPC classes for followers and PC classes for cohorts. For the biggest army possible, get a desecrated area and let adept followers take turns with a wand of animate dead. This way every 1st level cohort follower gets 4hd of undead each. 4 skeletons each would be pretty good if you want to make a army of any large number, but larger creatures might be better.
ninja1
03-02-07, 03:31 PM Yes, you may try to recruit any race/class.

No, they do not have to be NPC classes.

Yes, they can be rangers/barbarians/wizards/etc.

That being said, how it works in your campaign is up to your DM.

DMs may restrict this however they see fit.

Unlike other feats with hard/fast numerical results, Leadership does not outline how different people go about recruiting.

How you attract followers varies from person to person.

Imagine you are an organization like the Peace Core, the Army, Political Youth Groups, Scientologists, Fight Club (errr, scratch that... we don't talk about Fight Club...) etc... how do they go about attracting recruits?

You describe to your DM what you do to influence attracting cohorts... or what you don't do... Perhaps your reputation alone causes people to flock to your banner.

Should you want to actively recruit a particular race/class, then tell your DM this.... It might mean that you are turning away a certain percentage of potential followers.

At what rate you get the kind of folk you are looking for is up to your DM.

(note: I would've gone with three Thrallherds... all elans... and convert your thralls to elans...)

:schemes:
NerdNumber1
03-02-07, 07:49 PM There has been so many complaints on the power of this feat, so I'd stick more to NPC classes. All need to have some rp reasons. You can't be a gnome with an army of kobolds. Try a spellcasting school, evil cult, monk monastary etc.
Loki5654
03-02-07, 07:53 PM The key thing to remember is that the Leadership feat does not equal "Yay! Free extra characters for me!"

Cohorts and followers should be NPCs under the control of the DM with races and classes decided by the DM (with the player's input).

That way you don't end up with "My cohort delays the dragon while we escape. What? I can always get another one!"
NerdNumber1
03-02-07, 08:30 PM That way you don't end up with "My cohort delays the dragon while we escape. What? I can always get another one!"

Well that depends on the nature of the cohort. If he is a partner or second in comand of your mercenary party, then no. If he is the lead cult member in a fanatical group that worships you as a god, then yes.
hunterc311
03-02-07, 08:33 PM That way you don't end up with "My cohort delays the dragon while we escape. What? I can always get another one!"

Anyone with half a brain should never consider sacrificing their cohort in any way. The cohort is half the reason you take the feat, and you should be focusing on improving your cohort and making him part of the effectiveness of your party, not just letting him go to waste and using him as fodder if necessary. He is nearly an equal to you, like a sidekick even, not quite as good as you but just as good as anyone a couple levels beneath you. Your cohort is the Robin to your Batman, and you'd never see Batman throwing Robin to the wolves. :P

Followers, on the other hand... well, yeah, if you're evil... they're perfectly acceptable as fodder. Just be aware that potential future followers will get wind of your reputation for losing your followers, perhaps even purposely, and your DM will act accordingly when it comes time to replenish the stocks.
Crashy75
03-03-07, 03:51 AM Followers are basically low-level NPCs which are useful for mundane stuff. They're useless in a fight at your level, but they're useful for lots of cool stuff like information gathering, law enforcement, keeping your castle tidy, etc.

They're also good for springing traps if you don't have a rogue. ;)
HellflameArcanite
03-03-07, 07:07 AM Your cohort is the Robin to your Batman, and you'd never see Batman throwing Robin to the wolves. :P

Not really...I'd think of cohorts being more like apprentices, which Robin kind of is, but Robin & Batman are unique. Besides, this is an evil character anyway.
Thomas_Covenant
03-03-07, 01:35 PM The Epic Level Handbook states that followers are normally Warriors, Experts, or Commoners.
This is on page 37, under "Optional Rule: Exceptional Followers".

I truly wish this were stated somewhere else more clearly, ideally in the SRD (the section didn't make it into the Epic SRD), but this is all I know of in print.

Nothing stops an Evil Leader from using followers as fodder, just realize they will "respawn" exceedingly slowly, if they ever get replaced.
(The rules say around a year for death, longer if the PC's fault, and the DM is allowed to say "never", IIRC.)
Witch
03-03-07, 01:46 PM The Epic Level Handbook states that followers are normally Warriors, Experts, or Commoners.
This is on page 37, under "Optional Rule: Exceptional Followers".
Probably a 3.0 silliness :)
Thomas_Covenant
03-03-07, 01:51 PM Probably a 3.0 silliness :)Good call. Followers
Followers can be warriors, experts, or commoners. The leader can generally choose their races and classes.
....:mad: Nice upgrade job to 3.5, WotC.
I'd think Classes allowed would be handy for Leadership, but what do I know? :banghead:
Loki5654
03-03-07, 02:37 PM Well that depends on the nature of the cohort.
Yes, everything is situational.
Anyone with half a brain should never consider sacrificing their cohort in any way.
You shouldn't make assumptions about how someone will play their character.

My point was that it should be the DM (not the player) who determines the Cohort's actions.

My experience has been that when you allow a player to control their Cohort, the Cohort becomes just another item listed on a character sheet.

Blah blah my opinion blah blah your mileage may vary.
NerdNumber1
03-04-07, 04:58 PM Don't sacrifice cohorts, sarcifice followers. Sure there might be some time when it would be ok, but sacrificing a follower is much easier. Do you see evil overlords throwing their officers to their foes? Sure, a few times, but most of the time they send their standard foot soldies to their gruesome death.
HellflameArcanite
03-04-07, 07:44 PM I agree with Nerd (being one myself). If you want an evil organization, have a lot of followers, but have a few cohorts as officers and right hands. You can't have too many right hands - the Xill (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/xill.htm) have two, and they get along better than humans. But jokes aside...
Cohorts: Right Hands, buddies, officers, apprentices
Followers: The unwashed masses who are drawn to you because you look cool.
hunterc311
03-05-07, 01:22 AM You shouldn't make assumptions about how someone will play their character.

I don't see how I was. I was stating my opinion on how one should treat a cohort. Anything past that, you are making assumptions about. ;)

My point was that it should be the DM (not the player) who determines the Cohort's actions.

Why? What is the point of taking a feat, if all you receive is a DMPC of sorts? The DM can make one of those on their own, they don't need someone to take the Leadership feat.

My experience has been that when you allow a player to control their Cohort, the Cohort becomes just another item listed on a character sheet.

You shouldn't make assumptions about how someone will play their character. :tongue:
ElIsRa
03-05-07, 01:30 AM I disagree. Followers are more like SS troopers. They owe their loyalty directly to you, and only you. You use them as Lieutenants and thugs. Use poor common folk from the villages you enslave as cannon fodder.

I treat my followers exceptionally well, especially when I'm evil. Followers, went treated well, will act out your will without question.
Olav
03-07-07, 10:44 PM I'm pretty sure that the leadership feat in the DMG dstates that cohorts can have levels in a PC class where followers could be Commomers, Experts, or Warriors NPC classes. Acording to the pic Level Handbook, an Adept could be called as a follower at a -2 penelty to the class, and a PC class Follower could be attrated at a -4. For instance, if you had a Leadership score that allowed you to attract 4 6th level followers, one (or all) could instead be 4th level adepts or 2nd level PC class.
Pandaemoni
03-08-07, 04:40 AM Cohorts and followers should be NPCs under the control of the DM with races and classes decided by the DM (with the player's input).

The DMG says "[a] cohort is effectively another PC in the party under the player's control."

While I can see the DM stepping in to avoid egregious abuses/suicide missions, I don't think that description supports keeping them under DM control generally.

I'm pretty sure that the leadership feat in the DMG dstates that cohorts can have levels in a PC class where followers could be Commomers, Experts, or Warriors NPC classes.

Page 104 of the DMG states that cohorts can be from any class or race. The description of followers described them as low level NPCs, but doesn't specify classes (nor does it note any restrictions).
Grave_Accomplice
03-08-07, 12:40 PM We're running a 3rd party setting with 3.0 rules, but hopefully this helps.

We have 4 regular players in the group (the other two show up when they can), three of which have taken Leadership or are planning to soon. An irregular also has plans for the feat. This is their make-up so far:

Dragon Sorcerer: His cohort will be a demon summoner (He's out to make bargains for power. Feels an extreme need to kill his dad). His followers will be a spy network with which he can spread his influence (all experts of some sort).

Unfettered Psion: He's looking at making a psionic assassins guild. His cohort is a sniper hunter (unfortunately, she always seems to be rushing into hand to hand...). His followers are all warriors or experts with the Wild Talent feat.

Pilot Mechanic: He's tied to a living ship (yes, inspiration was from Farscape) so his follower is a bio-mechanic (druid-mechanist; it works out better than you think). His followers are a special case, but not game breaking. A third party source has a race called mulchmen (walking leaf piles), so we house ruled that the ship 'grows' them to be his crew. They're all experts.

Fighter Sorcerer: This guys specializes in large damage AoE spells, when he can make it to gaming. His cohort is a weapons maker, but his plan for his followers is interesting. In effect, half with be ordinance makers (he likes his grenades), while the other half are warriors set up behind a hill launching indirect fire weapons. Their BaB sucks but they don't have to hit you, just the ground you're standing on. For our campaign they're using one man mortars (think 60 mm) and aiming at stationary targets or specific squares.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Coridan 03-01-07, 06:05 PM	In an evil game I'm playing we've all decided to take leadership so we can turn our little triad into a small evil organization. What exactly are followers? Can we try and recruit specific race/classes as followers? Do they have to be NPC classes or can they be rangers/barbarians/wizards/etc? Is there anything else we should know?
Narthon 03-01-07, 08:46 PM	You should probably speak to your DM about it.
Coridan 03-01-07, 10:13 PM	I'm unfortunately the most experienced member of the group (I'm usually the DM, but not in this game). And even I don't know how it fully works.
Joseph_Silver 03-01-07, 10:41 PM	Followers are basically low-level NPCs which are useful for mundane stuff. They're useless in a fight at your level, but they're useful for lots of cool stuff like information gathering, law enforcement, keeping your castle tidy, etc.
Coridan 03-01-07, 11:52 PM	ok, but the big question is, can they be any class?
NerdNumber1 03-02-07, 12:01 AM	As a rule of thumb, I use NPC classes for followers and PC classes for cohorts. For the biggest army possible, get a desecrated area and let adept followers take turns with a wand of animate dead. This way every 1st level cohort follower gets 4hd of undead each. 4 skeletons each would be pretty good if you want to make a army of any large number, but larger creatures might be better.
ninja1 03-02-07, 03:31 PM	Yes, you may try to recruit any race/class. No, they do not have to be NPC classes. Yes, they can be rangers/barbarians/wizards/etc. That being said, how it works in your campaign is up to your DM. DMs may restrict this however they see fit. Unlike other feats with hard/fast numerical results, Leadership does not outline how different people go about recruiting. How you attract followers varies from person to person. Imagine you are an organization like the Peace Core, the Army, Political Youth Groups, Scientologists, Fight Club (errr, scratch that... we don't talk about Fight Club...) etc... how do they go about attracting recruits? You describe to your DM what you do to influence attracting cohorts... or what you don't do... Perhaps your reputation alone causes people to flock to your banner. Should you want to actively recruit a particular race/class, then tell your DM this.... It might mean that you are turning away a certain percentage of potential followers. At what rate you get the kind of folk you are looking for is up to your DM. (note: I would've gone with three Thrallherds... all elans... and convert your thralls to elans...) :schemes:
NerdNumber1 03-02-07, 07:49 PM	There has been so many complaints on the power of this feat, so I'd stick more to NPC classes. All need to have some rp reasons. You can't be a gnome with an army of kobolds. Try a spellcasting school, evil cult, monk monastary etc.
Loki5654 03-02-07, 07:53 PM	The key thing to remember is that the Leadership feat does not equal "Yay! Free extra characters for me!" Cohorts and followers should be NPCs under the control of the DM with races and classes decided by the DM (with the player's input). That way you don't end up with "My cohort delays the dragon while we escape. What? I can always get another one!"
NerdNumber1 03-02-07, 08:30 PM	That way you don't end up with "My cohort delays the dragon while we escape. What? I can always get another one!" Well that depends on the nature of the cohort. If he is a partner or second in comand of your mercenary party, then no. If he is the lead cult member in a fanatical group that worships you as a god, then yes.
hunterc311 03-02-07, 08:33 PM	That way you don't end up with "My cohort delays the dragon while we escape. What? I can always get another one!" Anyone with half a brain should never consider sacrificing their cohort in any way. The cohort is half the reason you take the feat, and you should be focusing on improving your cohort and making him part of the effectiveness of your party, not just letting him go to waste and using him as fodder if necessary. He is nearly an equal to you, like a sidekick even, not quite as good as you but just as good as anyone a couple levels beneath you. Your cohort is the Robin to your Batman, and you'd never see Batman throwing Robin to the wolves. :P Followers, on the other hand... well, yeah, if you're evil... they're perfectly acceptable as fodder. Just be aware that potential future followers will get wind of your reputation for losing your followers, perhaps even purposely, and your DM will act accordingly when it comes time to replenish the stocks.
Crashy75 03-03-07, 03:51 AM	Followers are basically low-level NPCs which are useful for mundane stuff. They're useless in a fight at your level, but they're useful for lots of cool stuff like information gathering, law enforcement, keeping your castle tidy, etc. They're also good for springing traps if you don't have a rogue. ;)
HellflameArcanite 03-03-07, 07:07 AM	Your cohort is the Robin to your Batman, and you'd never see Batman throwing Robin to the wolves. :P Not really...I'd think of cohorts being more like apprentices, which Robin kind of is, but Robin & Batman are unique. Besides, this is an evil character anyway.
Thomas_Covenant 03-03-07, 01:35 PM	The Epic Level Handbook states that followers are normally Warriors, Experts, or Commoners. This is on page 37, under "Optional Rule: Exceptional Followers". I truly wish this were stated somewhere else more clearly, ideally in the SRD (the section didn't make it into the Epic SRD), but this is all I know of in print. Nothing stops an Evil Leader from using followers as fodder, just realize they will "respawn" exceedingly slowly, if they ever get replaced. (The rules say around a year for death, longer if the PC's fault, and the DM is allowed to say "never", IIRC.)
Witch 03-03-07, 01:46 PM	The Epic Level Handbook states that followers are normally Warriors, Experts, or Commoners. This is on page 37, under "Optional Rule: Exceptional Followers". Probably a 3.0 silliness :)
Thomas_Covenant 03-03-07, 01:51 PM	Probably a 3.0 silliness :)Good call. Followers Followers can be warriors, experts, or commoners. The leader can generally choose their races and classes. ....:mad: Nice upgrade job to 3.5, WotC. I'd think Classes allowed would be handy for Leadership, but what do I know? :banghead:
Loki5654 03-03-07, 02:37 PM	Well that depends on the nature of the cohort. Yes, everything is situational. Anyone with half a brain should never consider sacrificing their cohort in any way. You shouldn't make assumptions about how someone will play their character. My point was that it should be the DM (not the player) who determines the Cohort's actions. My experience has been that when you allow a player to control their Cohort, the Cohort becomes just another item listed on a character sheet. Blah blah my opinion blah blah your mileage may vary.
NerdNumber1 03-04-07, 04:58 PM	Don't sacrifice cohorts, sarcifice followers. Sure there might be some time when it would be ok, but sacrificing a follower is much easier. Do you see evil overlords throwing their officers to their foes? Sure, a few times, but most of the time they send their standard foot soldies to their gruesome death.
HellflameArcanite 03-04-07, 07:44 PM	I agree with Nerd (being one myself). If you want an evil organization, have a lot of followers, but have a few cohorts as officers and right hands. You can't have too many right hands - the Xill (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/xill.htm) have two, and they get along better than humans. But jokes aside... Cohorts: Right Hands, buddies, officers, apprentices Followers: The unwashed masses who are drawn to you because you look cool.
hunterc311 03-05-07, 01:22 AM	You shouldn't make assumptions about how someone will play their character. I don't see how I was. I was stating my opinion on how one should treat a cohort. Anything past that, you are making assumptions about. ;) My point was that it should be the DM (not the player) who determines the Cohort's actions. Why? What is the point of taking a feat, if all you receive is a DMPC of sorts? The DM can make one of those on their own, they don't need someone to take the Leadership feat. My experience has been that when you allow a player to control their Cohort, the Cohort becomes just another item listed on a character sheet. You shouldn't make assumptions about how someone will play their character. :tongue:
ElIsRa 03-05-07, 01:30 AM	I disagree. Followers are more like SS troopers. They owe their loyalty directly to you, and only you. You use them as Lieutenants and thugs. Use poor common folk from the villages you enslave as cannon fodder. I treat my followers exceptionally well, especially when I'm evil. Followers, went treated well, will act out your will without question.
Olav 03-07-07, 10:44 PM	I'm pretty sure that the leadership feat in the DMG dstates that cohorts can have levels in a PC class where followers could be Commomers, Experts, or Warriors NPC classes. Acording to the pic Level Handbook, an Adept could be called as a follower at a -2 penelty to the class, and a PC class Follower could be attrated at a -4. For instance, if you had a Leadership score that allowed you to attract 4 6th level followers, one (or all) could instead be 4th level adepts or 2nd level PC class.
Pandaemoni 03-08-07, 04:40 AM	Cohorts and followers should be NPCs under the control of the DM with races and classes decided by the DM (with the player's input). The DMG says "[a] cohort is effectively another PC in the party under the player's control." While I can see the DM stepping in to avoid egregious abuses/suicide missions, I don't think that description supports keeping them under DM control generally. I'm pretty sure that the leadership feat in the DMG dstates that cohorts can have levels in a PC class where followers could be Commomers, Experts, or Warriors NPC classes. Page 104 of the DMG states that cohorts can be from any class or race. The description of followers described them as low level NPCs, but doesn't specify classes (nor does it note any restrictions).
Grave_Accomplice 03-08-07, 12:40 PM	We're running a 3rd party setting with 3.0 rules, but hopefully this helps. We have 4 regular players in the group (the other two show up when they can), three of which have taken Leadership or are planning to soon. An irregular also has plans for the feat. This is their make-up so far: Dragon Sorcerer: His cohort will be a demon summoner (He's out to make bargains for power. Feels an extreme need to kill his dad). His followers will be a spy network with which he can spread his influence (all experts of some sort). Unfettered Psion: He's looking at making a psionic assassins guild. His cohort is a sniper hunter (unfortunately, she always seems to be rushing into hand to hand...). His followers are all warriors or experts with the Wild Talent feat. Pilot Mechanic: He's tied to a living ship (yes, inspiration was from Farscape) so his follower is a bio-mechanic (druid-mechanist; it works out better than you think). His followers are a special case, but not game breaking. A third party source has a race called mulchmen (walking leaf piles), so we house ruled that the ship 'grows' them to be his crew. They're all experts. Fighter Sorcerer: This guys specializes in large damage AoE spells, when he can make it to gaming. His cohort is a weapons maker, but his plan for his followers is interesting. In effect, half with be ordinance makers (he likes his grenades), while the other half are warriors set up behind a hill launching indirect fire weapons. Their BaB sucks but they don't have to hit you, just the ground you're standing on. For our campaign they're using one man mortars (think 60 mm) and aiming at stationary targets or specific squares.