Least Possible Skill Points? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Least Possible Skill Points? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Peregrine_Wolf
07-19-07, 06:08 PM Is there a way to get 0 skill points per level? Or maybe negative skill points? Just thinking what would happen to a fighter/sorcerer/wizard with a little Int as possible(I'm not saying a Wizard without Int is good, just listing a few classes with 2 skill points/level)
AAB
07-19-07, 06:10 PM no, a character always gains at least 1 skill point per level.
Kouk
07-19-07, 07:05 PM You always have a minimum 1 skill point per level, otherwise animals would tend to have none.
Salla
07-19-07, 07:06 PM You always get 1, but there's nothing that says you actually have to spend them ... and you can't save them, so if you want 0 skill points per level, just don't spend any.
Empiro
07-19-07, 07:08 PM Anything that lacks an intelligence score doesn't get skillpoints (they don't get feats either).
Crimson_Concerto
07-19-07, 07:09 PM As far as I know, the only way to earn no skill points (or feats, actually) at all is to have INT -
(example: some vermin and constructs, iirc)
Otherwise, you always get at least 1 skill point per level and 4 at first level.
ShinAkuma2
07-19-07, 08:16 PM There's an Unearthed Arcana flaw, Frail, that allows you to gain 0 hp per level, instead of the minimum one...I imagine a similar one for skill points could be made.
StevenO
07-19-07, 08:31 PM If you are human you're even guarenteed TWO skill point per level.

If you aren't worried about skills and have an Int penalty taking a 2 skill point per level class isn't too bad.
The_Basilisk
07-19-07, 10:25 PM Oh man, I made this one Conjurer with a 3d6, arrange as desired rolling method. He got 1 hp at 1st level, and 1 hp per level after that :(
ZeroSpace9000
07-19-07, 11:35 PM OUCH! That is the most fragile character that I've ever seen. There is more fragile though, like a fighter that gets as many HP per lvl. Actually, don't even need to do that. Fighter is already weaker than wiz by default, regardless of stats.
BeSc
07-19-07, 11:44 PM Oh man, I made this one Conjurer with a 3d6, arrange as desired rolling method. He got 1 hp at 1st level, and 1 hp per level after that :(

Im guessing that he had really bad Con values as at first level you get the maximum hit points for the class!!! (i.e. With a Con modifier of 0, a 1st level sorcerer will always get at least 4 hit points whereas a first level barbarian will always get at least 12)
ShinAkuma2
07-19-07, 11:59 PM Im guessing that he had really bad Con values as at first level you get the maximum hit points for the class!!! (i.e. With a Con modifier of 0, a 1st level sorcerer will always get at least 4 hit points whereas a first level barbarian will always get at least 12)

A Con of 4 or 5 will do it. That's -3 HP per level.

And if he had the Frail flaw, he'd have 1 HP forever, no matter what his level was (assuming he stayed with d4 HD classes).

Imagine a 20th level Frail Wizard with 4 Con. Able to manipulate the cosmos to his will with nary a thought, but still gets knocked out by caltrops.
Jaxgaret
07-20-07, 12:47 PM Imagine a 20th level Frail Wizard with 4 Con. Able to manipulate the cosmos to his will with nary a thought, but still gets knocked out by caltrops.

One would surmise that said frail Wizard would have several HP-boosting items/constant spell effects going, just in case their other protections failed.
ShinAkuma2
07-20-07, 01:51 PM One would surmise that said frail Wizard would have several HP-boosting items/constant spell effects going, just in case their other protections failed.

Actually, one would surmise said Wizard would probably stay locked in his imprenetrable fortress, sitting very far away from all the shelves in case anything falls off.

It's just a joke, anyway. No one with one HP is going to survive to 20th level.
NobodyRemembersThis
07-20-07, 02:47 PM It's just a joke, anyway. No one with one HP is going to survive to 20th level.two words: PUN-PUN. :P
Crimson_Concerto
07-20-07, 04:17 PM two words: PUN-PUN. :PI don't see how that applies. Pun-Pun has infinite HP and infinite skill points, so...
NobodyRemembersThis
07-20-07, 04:34 PM I don't see how that applies. Pun-Pun has infinite HP and infinite skill points, so...Only if he wants them ;) And, not until level 5.
Crimson_Concerto
07-20-07, 04:41 PM Only if he wants them ;) And, not until level 5.I thought the latest version was a level 1 commoner. :rofl:
Jaxgaret
07-21-07, 01:20 AM It's just a joke, anyway. No one with one HP is going to survive to 20th level.

1 HP/level. There are lots of ways that a Wizard can avoid HP damage; heck, that's what they do anyway if they want to live.
Bob Loblaw
07-21-07, 03:35 AM Even though you get at least one skill point per level, you could make sure you only spend them on cross-class skills, half a point a time. By 20th level, you could have 20 cross class skills with 0.5 ranks in each. Try taking Speak Language, Forgery, Perform (Act), Perform (Comedy), Perform (Dance), Perform (Keyboard instruments), Perform (Oratory), Perform (Percussion instruments), Perform (String instruments), Perform (Wind instruments), Perform (Sing), Use Magic Device, Knowledge (Architecture), Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Nobility), Decipher Script, Profession (glazier), Profession (tailor), Profession (swizzle stick maker), Profession (paint thinner).
JulesCARV
07-21-07, 03:43 AM I think that a reasonable flaw would be "unskilled," in which a character would not receive any skill points.

In some ways, a level 20 wizard with 1 hit point seems more consistent with "common sense" fantasy archetypes than a level 20 wizard with 92 hit points, although perhaps a compromise like 5 hit points or so is most intuitive to me. It's only an artifact of the D&D hit die/level system that means that high level characters are so tough regardless of class. In non-D&D fantasy, a mighty but frail old wizard is mighty, but, well, frail.
runestar
07-21-07, 04:03 AM I once tried to conceptualize an elf wizard with crap con. The idea was to dump con in preparation for entering the necropolitan template ASAP.

I thought of going venerable as well (since your con can't go below 1 from the aging penalties anyways, and my con was already 3), but chickened out at the last moment from the idea of such an extreme build.

Basically, the plan was to take mind over body at 1st lv (lets me use int mod instead of con to determine bonus hp at 1st lv) and acquire a toad familiar. At 1st lv with 20int, I had 12hp. At 3rd lv, take the elven wizard sub feature, netting me another 3 hp. Rely on castings of false life when the going got tough. At 5th lv, I qualified for necropolitan, and rolling 5d12 gave me around 40 hp. Factor in the +6 hp from my familiar and +4 hp from mind over body and I would have had 50hp, but my game terminated shortly before that.:weep:

Not a bad idea, if you have a clear idea of what you are aiming for.:)
ShinAkuma2
07-21-07, 11:39 AM 1 HP/level.

No...1 Hit point. Please read up on the Frail Flaw, which is what I have been referencing.
Jaxgaret
07-21-07, 04:48 PM No...1 Hit point. Please read up on the Frail Flaw, which is what I have been referencing.

Ah, it can reduce your HP/level gain to 0. I've never used flaws, sorry for the misunderstanding. Still, 1 HP isn't much worse than 20 HP at those levels :)

Especially not after the aforementioned HP-boosting items/constant spell effects.
ShinAkuma2
07-21-07, 05:27 PM Still, 1 HP isn't much worse than 20 HP at those levels :)

Ha ha, this is very true.
Peregrine_Wolf
07-21-07, 10:48 PM Lol, if anyone was wondering why I asked, I was wodnering what it would be like to play a character with the intelligence of an animal. Thank guys.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Peregrine_Wolf 07-19-07, 06:08 PM	Is there a way to get 0 skill points per level? Or maybe negative skill points? Just thinking what would happen to a fighter/sorcerer/wizard with a little Int as possible(I'm not saying a Wizard without Int is good, just listing a few classes with 2 skill points/level)
AAB 07-19-07, 06:10 PM	no, a character always gains at least 1 skill point per level.
Kouk 07-19-07, 07:05 PM	You always have a minimum 1 skill point per level, otherwise animals would tend to have none.
Salla 07-19-07, 07:06 PM	You always get 1, but there's nothing that says you actually have to spend them ... and you can't save them, so if you want 0 skill points per level, just don't spend any.
Empiro 07-19-07, 07:08 PM	Anything that lacks an intelligence score doesn't get skillpoints (they don't get feats either).
Crimson_Concerto 07-19-07, 07:09 PM	As far as I know, the only way to earn no skill points (or feats, actually) at all is to have INT - (example: some vermin and constructs, iirc) Otherwise, you always get at least 1 skill point per level and 4 at first level.
ShinAkuma2 07-19-07, 08:16 PM	There's an Unearthed Arcana flaw, Frail, that allows you to gain 0 hp per level, instead of the minimum one...I imagine a similar one for skill points could be made.
StevenO 07-19-07, 08:31 PM	If you are human you're even guarenteed TWO skill point per level. If you aren't worried about skills and have an Int penalty taking a 2 skill point per level class isn't too bad.
The_Basilisk 07-19-07, 10:25 PM	Oh man, I made this one Conjurer with a 3d6, arrange as desired rolling method. He got 1 hp at 1st level, and 1 hp per level after that :(
ZeroSpace9000 07-19-07, 11:35 PM	OUCH! That is the most fragile character that I've ever seen. There is more fragile though, like a fighter that gets as many HP per lvl. Actually, don't even need to do that. Fighter is already weaker than wiz by default, regardless of stats.
BeSc 07-19-07, 11:44 PM	Oh man, I made this one Conjurer with a 3d6, arrange as desired rolling method. He got 1 hp at 1st level, and 1 hp per level after that :( Im guessing that he had really bad Con values as at first level you get the maximum hit points for the class!!! (i.e. With a Con modifier of 0, a 1st level sorcerer will always get at least 4 hit points whereas a first level barbarian will always get at least 12)
ShinAkuma2 07-19-07, 11:59 PM	Im guessing that he had really bad Con values as at first level you get the maximum hit points for the class!!! (i.e. With a Con modifier of 0, a 1st level sorcerer will always get at least 4 hit points whereas a first level barbarian will always get at least 12) A Con of 4 or 5 will do it. That's -3 HP per level. And if he had the Frail flaw, he'd have 1 HP forever, no matter what his level was (assuming he stayed with d4 HD classes). Imagine a 20th level Frail Wizard with 4 Con. Able to manipulate the cosmos to his will with nary a thought, but still gets knocked out by caltrops.
Jaxgaret 07-20-07, 12:47 PM	Imagine a 20th level Frail Wizard with 4 Con. Able to manipulate the cosmos to his will with nary a thought, but still gets knocked out by caltrops. One would surmise that said frail Wizard would have several HP-boosting items/constant spell effects going, just in case their other protections failed.
ShinAkuma2 07-20-07, 01:51 PM	One would surmise that said frail Wizard would have several HP-boosting items/constant spell effects going, just in case their other protections failed. Actually, one would surmise said Wizard would probably stay locked in his imprenetrable fortress, sitting very far away from all the shelves in case anything falls off. It's just a joke, anyway. No one with one HP is going to survive to 20th level.
NobodyRemembersThis 07-20-07, 02:47 PM	It's just a joke, anyway. No one with one HP is going to survive to 20th level.two words: PUN-PUN. :P
Crimson_Concerto 07-20-07, 04:17 PM	two words: PUN-PUN. :PI don't see how that applies. Pun-Pun has infinite HP and infinite skill points, so...
NobodyRemembersThis 07-20-07, 04:34 PM	I don't see how that applies. Pun-Pun has infinite HP and infinite skill points, so...Only if he wants them ;) And, not until level 5.
Crimson_Concerto 07-20-07, 04:41 PM	Only if he wants them ;) And, not until level 5.I thought the latest version was a level 1 commoner. :rofl:
Jaxgaret 07-21-07, 01:20 AM	It's just a joke, anyway. No one with one HP is going to survive to 20th level. 1 HP/level. There are lots of ways that a Wizard can avoid HP damage; heck, that's what they do anyway if they want to live.
Bob Loblaw 07-21-07, 03:35 AM	Even though you get at least one skill point per level, you could make sure you only spend them on cross-class skills, half a point a time. By 20th level, you could have 20 cross class skills with 0.5 ranks in each. Try taking Speak Language, Forgery, Perform (Act), Perform (Comedy), Perform (Dance), Perform (Keyboard instruments), Perform (Oratory), Perform (Percussion instruments), Perform (String instruments), Perform (Wind instruments), Perform (Sing), Use Magic Device, Knowledge (Architecture), Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Nobility), Decipher Script, Profession (glazier), Profession (tailor), Profession (swizzle stick maker), Profession (paint thinner).
JulesCARV 07-21-07, 03:43 AM	I think that a reasonable flaw would be "unskilled," in which a character would not receive any skill points. In some ways, a level 20 wizard with 1 hit point seems more consistent with "common sense" fantasy archetypes than a level 20 wizard with 92 hit points, although perhaps a compromise like 5 hit points or so is most intuitive to me. It's only an artifact of the D&D hit die/level system that means that high level characters are so tough regardless of class. In non-D&D fantasy, a mighty but frail old wizard is mighty, but, well, frail.
runestar 07-21-07, 04:03 AM	I once tried to conceptualize an elf wizard with crap con. The idea was to dump con in preparation for entering the necropolitan template ASAP. I thought of going venerable as well (since your con can't go below 1 from the aging penalties anyways, and my con was already 3), but chickened out at the last moment from the idea of such an extreme build. Basically, the plan was to take mind over body at 1st lv (lets me use int mod instead of con to determine bonus hp at 1st lv) and acquire a toad familiar. At 1st lv with 20int, I had 12hp. At 3rd lv, take the elven wizard sub feature, netting me another 3 hp. Rely on castings of false life when the going got tough. At 5th lv, I qualified for necropolitan, and rolling 5d12 gave me around 40 hp. Factor in the +6 hp from my familiar and +4 hp from mind over body and I would have had 50hp, but my game terminated shortly before that.:weep: Not a bad idea, if you have a clear idea of what you are aiming for.:)
ShinAkuma2 07-21-07, 11:39 AM	1 HP/level. No...1 Hit point. Please read up on the Frail Flaw, which is what I have been referencing.
Jaxgaret 07-21-07, 04:48 PM	No...1 Hit point. Please read up on the Frail Flaw, which is what I have been referencing. Ah, it can reduce your HP/level gain to 0. I've never used flaws, sorry for the misunderstanding. Still, 1 HP isn't much worse than 20 HP at those levels :) Especially not after the aforementioned HP-boosting items/constant spell effects.
ShinAkuma2 07-21-07, 05:27 PM	Still, 1 HP isn't much worse than 20 HP at those levels :) Ha ha, this is very true.
Peregrine_Wolf 07-21-07, 10:48 PM	Lol, if anyone was wondering why I asked, I was wodnering what it would be like to play a character with the intelligence of an animal. Thank guys.