Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lokenarin 05-27-07, 05:14 PM	Libirs Mortis p. 27 feat fell drain metamagic Any spell that causes damage also removes 1 level or HD from the creature that was damaged temporarily until the next day. cost is +2 spell levels. Does that sound overpowered. There is No save only as the spell it empowers. My player wants to use it with decomposition spell Complete divine page 142. seems way overpowered. even if you use it as a 4th level spell. Any comming into the area of effect will be affected by a fell drianed decomposition spell... input
Iron Klaw Merc 05-27-07, 05:45 PM	I would say that it would work, however I think it would only cause the level/HD loss once per target.
Lokenarin 05-27-07, 08:15 PM	I think the problem that i have is that there is only a save vs. the level loss of the feat if the spell says there is a save. Decomposition has a save of none. and magic missle...if you dierct 1 MM at a different target then you can have 5 people with basically a level drain and no save.
Kamin_Majere 05-27-07, 09:03 PM	Yeah fell drain is a good feat i designed a force missile mage around it. Worked pretty good on paper to. The problem is the fact that magic missile is now a 3rd level spell and at higher levels a single level drained from a monster doesn't do much more than an extra d6 or 2d6 damage If you use it agaisnt low level things of course its powerful, but it requires you to be 5th level to use on even the lowest spells so what are you doing picking on 1HD creatures
NobodyRemembersThis 05-27-07, 09:16 PM	If you use it agaisnt low level things of course its powerful, but it requires you to be 5th level to use on even the lowest spells so what are you doing picking on 1HD creatures Making a wight horde is what you are doing with that.
cwslyclgh 05-28-07, 02:32 AM	Making a wight horde is what you are doing with that.of course it is an uncontrolled wight horde... but hey... I coould see somebody doing that just to be a jerk or something.
Iron Klaw Merc 05-28-07, 10:34 AM	I kind like Fell Weaken myself, that -4 strength on anyone damaged by the spell works pretty good with magic missile.
Lokenarin 05-28-07, 02:00 PM	really anything that does not give a save IMHO is either slightly overpowered or just out of control. I would allow fell weaken under 2 conditions. 1. target gets a save vs the fell weaken effect only in the case of a MM. 2. only spells that have a durration of instantaneous can be FELL.
risner 05-28-07, 04:50 PM	really anything that does not give a save IMHO is either slightly overpowered or just out of control. I would allow fell weaken under 2 conditions. 1. target gets a save vs the fell weaken effect only in the case of a MM. 2. only spells that have a durration of instantaneous can be FELL. We are talking about energy drain here right? I mean the penalties are not that horrible: -1 on all skill checks and ability checks. -1 on attack rolls and saving throws. -5 hit points. -1 effective level for abilities. -1 spell of your highest level. Not quite as earth shattering for a LA+2 spell effect as it sounds from this thread.
NobodyRemembersThis 05-29-07, 12:00 AM	The problem is that the way it is written non instant spells would be cumulative. Ie, Acid Arrow would inflict 2-5 negative levels. Compare to Enervation, which is also 4th level and only deals 1d4. Now, make it 5th level by extending it and you get 8 negative levels (at 9th level minimum to pull this off Acid Arrow lasts 4 rounds at its base). With no Save. That's as good as Energy Drain, which is a ninth (9th) level spell. :uh-huh: No. Absofreakinglutely not. This feat is broke brokety broke broke broke.
Karak_Nechot 05-29-07, 12:08 AM	The problem is that the way it is written non instant spells would be cumulative. Ie, Acid Arrow would inflict 2-5 negative levels. Compare to Enervation, which is also 4th level and only deals 1d4. Now, make it 5th level by extending it and you get 8 negative levels (at 9th level minimum to pull this off Acid Arrow lasts 4 rounds at its base). With no Save. That's as good as Energy Drain, which is a ninth (9th) level spell. :uh-huh: No. Absofreakinglutely not. This feat is broke brokety broke broke broke. No, it would only apply once. No idea how you are reading the feat to apply more than once per use of the spell. Specifically, it says 'You alter a spell that deals damage to foes so that any living creature that is dealt damage also gains a negative level.' As far as I know 'a' usually refers to a single item. Thus, regardless of the spell, a creature only can gain one negative level from it. A fell wall of fire could only give any target one negative level, even if he were jumping back and forth through the wall.
DragonBringerX 05-29-07, 12:24 AM	No, it would only apply once. No idea how you are reading the feat to apply more than once per use of the spell. Specifically, it says 'You alter a spell that deals damage to foes so that any living creature that is dealt damage also gains a negative level.' As far as I know 'a' usually refers to a single item. Thus, regardless of the spell, a creature only can gain one negative level from it. A fell wall of fire could only give any target one negative level, even if he were jumping back and forth through the wall. dude's got a point...yeah...just checked the feat myself (got it in my hands)...you only gain 1 negative level...thats it. Also, it only last a number of rounds = to caster lv...thats not a WHOLE day... sorry to burst your bubble...this feat is almost underpowered... i would prob never touch it...even with my necro characters.
SephDragoon 05-29-07, 12:30 AM	negative levels stack... hence, a is the same as saying a point of damage. But... it still would only be 1 per spell, not per round or anything. On the other hand, still works wonders against multiple creatures.
TheWhirlingDeathaxe 05-29-07, 01:10 AM	I think youre comming at this all wrong. You shouldn't be worried about your players fell draining the stuff you throw at them, your players should be worried about you throwing fell draining lightning bolts at them. We just finished Expidition to Castle Ravenloft, and Strahd keeps a fell draining lightning bolt memorized. In the adventure he used it twice....and twice did the party flee.
RobbyPants 05-29-07, 12:58 PM	Making a wight horde is what you are doing with that. of course it is an uncontrolled wight horde... but hey... I coould see somebody doing that just to be a jerk or something. I just got a nasty idea for a villian. :evillaugh Something spooky about a guy who kills a bunch of commoners for the sole pupose of unleashing uncontrolled wights on more commoners!
Gnarl 05-29-07, 01:05 PM	Libirs Mortis p. 27 feat fell drain metamagic Any spell that causes damage also removes 1 level or HD from the creature that was damaged temporarily until the next day. cost is +2 spell levels. Does that sound overpowered. There is No save only as the spell it empowers. My player wants to use it with decomposition spell Complete divine page 142. seems way overpowered. even if you use it as a 4th level spell. Any comming into the area of effect will be affected by a fell drianed decomposition spell... input A few months ago I posted a similar thread. Nothing in the feat description suggests that it deals one negative level each time the spell deals damage (nor the opposite by the way). As a DM, it's your call. We tried both in our games. The hasted druid with her fell drain produce flame was a real nightmare. She was dealing an obscene amount of damage with a 3rd level spells and crippling my monsters way beyond normal for a single 3rd level spell. With a one level per spell limits, it's not that bad. It's only nice on warmage with metamagic school focus.
tarkin 05-29-07, 03:28 PM	I agree with the people claiming that Fell drain is one negative level per victim per casting of a fell drain spell. It gives them A negative level, not one negative level every time they take damage. As such, the feat is powerfull, but not ridiculously so. Worst case sceanario you are 5th level, using Fell magic missile spells (3rd level spell). By that level no creature of less than 4th HD will be scary. Few creatures I know of would be killed by 4 Fell Magic Missiles but would NOT be killed by 4 Fireball spells. As you go up in level, your victims should as well. The loss of one negative level, while powerfull, is simply not going to kill them or even weaken them more than it would at the low levels
NobodyRemembersThis 05-29-07, 04:41 PM	Glad I read the feat wrong. Really glad.