Life Drain & Fell Drain Feat Combo? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Life Drain & Fell Drain Feat Combo? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sysane
02-27-07, 08:50 PM If this has been addressed in another thread I apologize in advance. I’ve gone thru 10+ pages worth of threads and found nothing regarding this. If there is one, I’d be most grateful if someone could direct me to it.

With that said, on to my question.

Would an undead caster with the drain life feat gain hit points from creatures damaged by a fell drain spell? Both Life Drain and Fell Drain are from Libris Mortis for those not familiar with the two feats.

Any help in clarifying this would be greatly appreciated.
Sysane
02-28-07, 07:48 AM No ones got anything on this?
TessarrianDM
02-28-07, 08:31 AM I would say no. Life Drain is based upon dealing energy drain with a supernatural ability, such as a natural attack that deals energy drain. Fell Drain is a metamagic feat, allowing a spell enhanced by it to drain energy in addition to its normal effects. The spell is what deals the energy drain, not the character's innate supernatural ability. My take on this is that the prerequisite for Life Drain (having the energy drain supernatural ability) means that it only functions when you actually use that ability.
That being said, the description of Life Drain does state "Whenever you bestow a negative level upon a creature", without any qualifications. If you (or your DM, if you are not) decide to let it work in conjunction Fell Drain, I don't see that it will be too unbalancing; a simple Sheltered Vitality spell (Spell Compendium, pg. 188) prevents all of the effects of both.
Sysane
02-28-07, 09:45 AM That being said, the description of Life Drain does state "Whenever you bestow a negative level upon a creature", without any qualifications. If you (or your DM, if you are not) decide to let it work in conjunction Fell Drain, I don't see that it will be too unbalancing; a simple Sheltered Vitality spell (Spell Compendium, pg. 188) prevents all of the effects of both.
Thanks for the response.

Now, you don't find it a bit unsettling that a 10th undead wizard with a 16 Chr that casts a fell drain magic missile that targets 5 characters is going to gain 40 temp hit points?
tarkin
02-28-07, 11:20 AM I find it wrong, for a Strict/Loose Game.

I would rule that Life Drain only works if you yourself drain the creature, not if a spell drains the creature.

Note the pre-req of "energy drain supernatural ability", not "ability to give a creature a negative level". Furthermore, the effect repeats the fact that normally " a target loses 5 hit points each time it gains a negative level, and the creature delivering the negative level gains 5 temporary hit points that last for up to 1 hour", which does NOT happen when you use a Fell Drain spell (you don't gain the 5 temp hitpoints).

Obviously, Life Drain was not intended to work on something that does not normally grant the base 5 temp hitpoints. It is supposed to add additional temp hitpoints, not give you the base ability and also improve it.
cwslyclgh
02-28-07, 11:48 AM I agree with Tarkin on this issue, they obvious were not meant to go together... I could see powergamers and munchkin types trying to argue that the strict wording of the rules does not preclude it, but i would not allow it in my game.
Sysane
02-28-07, 11:53 AM Obviously, Life Drain was not intended to work on something that does not normally grant the base 5 temp hitpoints. It is supposed to add additional temp hitpoints, not give you the base ability and also improve it.
I can respect this logic. The Special notation under the feat supports this logic.

Now, what are people's thoughts on Fell Drain working with Spell Drain feat from Libris Mortis? Spell Drain is even more vague in its description and the RAW of the feat reads that it work in conjunction with a fell drain spell.
cwslyclgh
02-28-07, 11:58 AM I'd say no to that one as well, as the spell drain feat requires you to have the energy drain supernatural ability, implying that it is to be used with that.
Sysane
02-28-07, 12:39 PM I'd say no to that one as well, as the spell drain feat requires you to have the energy drain supernatural ability, implying that it is to be used with that.
There are many feats that require you to be able to acheive a certain effect but don't necessarily factor into being used soley for that ability.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sysane 02-27-07, 08:50 PM	If this has been addressed in another thread I apologize in advance. I’ve gone thru 10+ pages worth of threads and found nothing regarding this. If there is one, I’d be most grateful if someone could direct me to it. With that said, on to my question. Would an undead caster with the drain life feat gain hit points from creatures damaged by a fell drain spell? Both Life Drain and Fell Drain are from Libris Mortis for those not familiar with the two feats. Any help in clarifying this would be greatly appreciated.
Sysane 02-28-07, 07:48 AM	No ones got anything on this?
TessarrianDM 02-28-07, 08:31 AM	I would say no. Life Drain is based upon dealing energy drain with a supernatural ability, such as a natural attack that deals energy drain. Fell Drain is a metamagic feat, allowing a spell enhanced by it to drain energy in addition to its normal effects. The spell is what deals the energy drain, not the character's innate supernatural ability. My take on this is that the prerequisite for Life Drain (having the energy drain supernatural ability) means that it only functions when you actually use that ability. That being said, the description of Life Drain does state "Whenever you bestow a negative level upon a creature", without any qualifications. If you (or your DM, if you are not) decide to let it work in conjunction Fell Drain, I don't see that it will be too unbalancing; a simple Sheltered Vitality spell (Spell Compendium, pg. 188) prevents all of the effects of both.
Sysane 02-28-07, 09:45 AM	That being said, the description of Life Drain does state "Whenever you bestow a negative level upon a creature", without any qualifications. If you (or your DM, if you are not) decide to let it work in conjunction Fell Drain, I don't see that it will be too unbalancing; a simple Sheltered Vitality spell (Spell Compendium, pg. 188) prevents all of the effects of both. Thanks for the response. Now, you don't find it a bit unsettling that a 10th undead wizard with a 16 Chr that casts a fell drain magic missile that targets 5 characters is going to gain 40 temp hit points?
tarkin 02-28-07, 11:20 AM	I find it wrong, for a Strict/Loose Game. I would rule that Life Drain only works if you yourself drain the creature, not if a spell drains the creature. Note the pre-req of "energy drain supernatural ability", not "ability to give a creature a negative level". Furthermore, the effect repeats the fact that normally " a target loses 5 hit points each time it gains a negative level, and the creature delivering the negative level gains 5 temporary hit points that last for up to 1 hour", which does NOT happen when you use a Fell Drain spell (you don't gain the 5 temp hitpoints). Obviously, Life Drain was not intended to work on something that does not normally grant the base 5 temp hitpoints. It is supposed to add additional temp hitpoints, not give you the base ability and also improve it.
cwslyclgh 02-28-07, 11:48 AM	I agree with Tarkin on this issue, they obvious were not meant to go together... I could see powergamers and munchkin types trying to argue that the strict wording of the rules does not preclude it, but i would not allow it in my game.
Sysane 02-28-07, 11:53 AM	Obviously, Life Drain was not intended to work on something that does not normally grant the base 5 temp hitpoints. It is supposed to add additional temp hitpoints, not give you the base ability and also improve it. I can respect this logic. The Special notation under the feat supports this logic. Now, what are people's thoughts on Fell Drain working with Spell Drain feat from Libris Mortis? Spell Drain is even more vague in its description and the RAW of the feat reads that it work in conjunction with a fell drain spell.
cwslyclgh 02-28-07, 11:58 AM	I'd say no to that one as well, as the spell drain feat requires you to have the energy drain supernatural ability, implying that it is to be used with that.
Sysane 02-28-07, 12:39 PM	I'd say no to that one as well, as the spell drain feat requires you to have the energy drain supernatural ability, implying that it is to be used with that. There are many feats that require you to be able to acheive a certain effect but don't necessarily factor into being used soley for that ability.