Longspear Knight [Archive] - Wizards Community

Longspear Knight [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Valgoth
03-20-08, 04:31 PM I'm considering making a knight that uses a longspear. I can't remember the feat... maybe short-haft?... that allows you to attack adjacent foes with a reach weapon. Anyone have any idea?

I like to concept of the knight. Plus, throw in combat reflexes and my spear-knight's "bullwark defense" class feature, and I've got battlefield control down to a science. There will be no getting away from me.

Any suggestions as to other feats? I believe there's one that stops movement if you hit successfully. That'd rock.
Artector
03-20-08, 04:39 PM For stopping movement Stand Still (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#standStill) would probably be the one you are referring to.

I can't remember the name of the other feat you are talking about... I used one in that was in dragon... I think it gave a -2 to attack though...
rjsilverthorn
03-20-08, 05:36 PM For stopping movement Stand Still (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#standStill) would probably be the one you are referring to.

I can't remember the name of the other feat you are talking about... I used one in that was in dragon... I think it gave a -2 to attack though...

Shorthaft(PHB2) lets you attack adjacent foes with a reach weapon, but it requires a swift action to change your grip. So you threaten at either 10' or 5', but not both.

The Dragon feat, Shorten Grip, lets you threaten at 5' and 10', but imposes a -2 attack penalty at 5'.
mplindustries
03-20-08, 05:58 PM Use spiked armor and don't waste a feat.
ciaran
03-20-08, 06:02 PM You'll be giving up the Shield Block ability. Thinking about a Buckler maybe?
Valgoth
03-20-08, 06:06 PM Shorthaft(PHB2) lets you attack adjacent foes with a reach weapon, but it requires a swift action to change your grip. So you threaten at either 10' or 5', but not both.

The Dragon feat, Shorten Grip, lets you threaten at 5' and 10', but imposes a -2 attack penalty at 5'.

Hmm... choices, choices.

I'd probably go with Shorten Grip. I can usually maneuver around enough to attack from 10' on my turn. The 5' would be used most-often for AoOs (which I would be getting several of, thanks to "Bullwark Defense"). Plus, I'm somewhat certain there are feats that give bonuses for AoOs.

I'm liking this build more and more...
Valgoth
03-20-08, 06:09 PM You'll be giving up the Shield Block ability. Thinking about a Buckler maybe?

Yeah.

Oh... oooohhh... instead of getting short half, I could just take improved shield bash. Provided you can bash with a buckler. I stab from 10' and smack with my shield (spiked) from 5'.

Can you bash with a buckler?

Edit: Scratch that. 2WF. And you can't bash with a buckler. Same goes for armor spikes. Dur.
mplindustries
03-20-08, 06:40 PM You can use Improved Buckler Defense to get your shield block ability back (yes, yes, this has been debated, and using it with a two-hander is legal after all).

And you can still use Armor Spikes as an off-hand weapon if you want to TWF, though I wouldn't bother.

Last thing: why would you use a Longspear if you're a Knight? Am I forgetting something? Don't they get martial weapon proficiency? Why not use a Glaive? Or Guisarme?
Valgoth
03-20-08, 10:04 PM You can use Improved Buckler Defense to get your shield block ability back (yes, yes, this has been debated, and using it with a two-hander is legal after all).

And you can still use Armor Spikes as an off-hand weapon if you want to TWF, though I wouldn't bother.

Last thing: why would you use a Longspear if you're a Knight? Am I forgetting something? Don't they get martial weapon proficiency? Why not use a Glaive? Or Guisarme?

I'd probably invest in improved buckler defense, yes.

Well, living by the principal "It doesn't matter what you roll, it's what you add to it", I decided to go by reach weapons other abilities. So, the glaive is out (it has no other ability). Guisarm helps you trip, ranseur helps you disarm, spear/lance lets you ready against a charge to do double damage. Since, as a knight, I can't strike flatfooted opponents, I'm going to have to ready quite a bit ANYWAY, so I figure getting the big hurt on chargers would be cool. And I think lances are for wusses. Thus: longspear.
mplindustries
03-21-08, 04:39 AM I'd probably invest in improved buckler defense, yes.

Well, living by the principal "It doesn't matter what you roll, it's what you add to it", I decided to go by reach weapons other abilities. So, the glaive is out (it has no other ability). Guisarm helps you trip, ranseur helps you disarm, spear/lance lets you ready against a charge to do double damage. Since, as a knight, I can't strike flatfooted opponents, I'm going to have to ready quite a bit ANYWAY, so I figure getting the big hurt on chargers would be cool. And I think lances are for wusses. Thus: longspear.
This is actually an excellent point. I forgot about the Knight's Code, and I think set vs. charge is a very underrated ability. I've used tridents over long swords both for players and npcs for years, and while it suprises people at first, they soon feel my wrath.

You may want to look at Drow of the Underdark if you intend to ready a lot. There is a feat, Cautious Attack, that gives you a dodge bonus to AC when you ready an attack. I don't quite remember, it might be insignificant and thus not worth it, but it also could be a decent bonus...
1 ton ghost
03-21-08, 03:13 PM you really thought this out. i wa particularly impressed w/ your mention of the code vs. flat-footed foes and your inclination to the spear vs. others. nj. it's rare, but some ppl bridge the gap w/ rules AND RP at the same time...

plan ahead though. any prestige class you're looking at? alot of purists like to go Cavalier from Knight and i think Lance comes into play. Weapon Focus or something, not sure what they give you. you don't have to be mounted to use a lance btw and they don't all look like the jousting pieces you see. that is to say, many plains Indians (american that is) had lances so to speak, so did some Egyptian cav. still a reach weapon and all, won't have to keep swapping in/out from foot/mounted unless Quick Draw is your bag.
whatever.

reach and Bullwark of Defense...i thought about this too, but no one, not even me as a DM have actually used it. i like where your head's at. good luck.
Valgoth
03-21-08, 04:09 PM you really thought this out. i wa particularly impressed w/ your mention of the code vs. flat-footed foes and your inclination to the spear vs. others. nj. it's rare, . . . about this too, but no one, not even me as a DM have actually used it. i like where your head's at. good luck.

Thanks, I appreciate that.

I'm thinking possibly Knight Protector or being a dwarf and going with Dwarven Defender. I'm not really sold on any prestige class, to be honest. I don't think I'll work much with mounts, but... who know?
Cifer
03-21-08, 06:35 PM I don't think dwarf is such a great idea since you'll lack in mobility - one of the coolest knightly features is having armor that doesn't hinder your movement. With a dwarf, that would mean you'd go up from 20' to... 20'. Yep - "It's a dwarven defender! Quick, everyone, walk briskly!"

In general, however, using armor spikes is quite practical, even if you don't enchant them or do anything else about them since you now threaten the 5' area for the great cost of 50gp. That's what I'd call a bargain.
Valgoth
03-21-08, 10:33 PM I don't think dwarf is such a great idea since you'll lack in mobility - one of the coolest knightly features is having armor that doesn't hinder your movement. With a dwarf, that would mean you'd go up from 20' to... 20'. Yep - "It's a dwarven defender! Quick, everyone, walk briskly!"

In general, however, using armor spikes is quite practical, even if you don't enchant them or do anything else about them since you now threaten the 5' area for the great cost of 50gp. That's what I'd call a bargain.

That's true, to a point. But, I'm hoping to get a strong enough battlefield control that will disallow people to just "walk past". What with the reach weapon and AoOs and all. I'll have to look closer into it.

I don't think armor spikes aren't necessary because I'll be getting short-haft, which allows me to attack adjacent foes with the spear. I figure the -2 from short half will be offset by a) obvious upgrades to the spear b) weapon focus/spec (if applicable), e.t.c.

Spikes are somewhat tempting though... I'll have to start a real build and see where I'm at, feats-wise.
dirkformica
03-22-08, 12:07 AM Another positive of Armor Spikes is that they can be used in a grapple. Not sure if the Shorthaft and Shorten Grip allow for that.
Fenrir_Greyback
03-22-08, 10:01 AM Or you could take the longspear using fighting styler for the quintessential fighter. It's first ability is to use the spear close quarters as well as long ranged. Albeit at a -2 on attack rolls but you don't change your grip or anything. And no feat. Sounds like a good deal to me...
1 ton ghost
03-22-08, 12:35 PM oh, God, i totally forgot about this, sorry.

they updated the idea i thought of many years ago for a Stormlord given proclivity to spears. now in MagItmCmp, not sure if it's Sizing or what, but there is a Weapon Special Ability that can makes spears go; 1/2, full, or longspear. that's nice, let me tell you. you won't always be able to bust out a reach weapon in various urban areas, underdark or other subterranean environs, etc. you might suddenly need a free hand, etc. rare, but you never know when you're gonna' have to go ranged (hurl it) and time constraints make an issue...not to mention throwing reach weapons.
in other words, versatility i have found to be more important and pragmatic than sheer damage capability etc. i mean, if you can't even use the weapon, all those Foci, Power Attacks, etc., mean nothing

don't have the text w/ me, but it's definetly worth a look. thought it was a +1 ability, maybe just a flat rate of gp, not sure what it's Activation is either, but if it builds a better Knight for you, so be it.
pigknight
03-22-08, 06:51 PM A couple levels in fighter might actually be useful for you. And knight protectors are excellent damage dealers if you want a bit o' extra damage (it's funny hw the knight protectors are basically all about damage). And for some reason warblade and tiger claw keep coming to mind (darn you Final Fantasty).
Valgoth
03-24-08, 04:21 PM The weapon special ability is intriguing... though I rather have characters that start their build right away as opposed to later. Having to wait 3 or 4 levels to get a +2 weapon may make the feat worth it. I dunno though, still milling this around.

I've also considered taking a level of fighter or one of the ToB classes. I haven't read as much of ToB as I should have... the fighter level would just be for the feat, though. Still working on this.

Thanks for all the response.
rjsilverthorn
03-24-08, 06:26 PM The weapon special ability is intriguing... though I rather have characters that start their build right away as opposed to later. Having to wait 3 or 4 levels to get a +2 weapon may make the feat worth it. I dunno though, still milling this around.

I've also considered taking a level of fighter or one of the ToB classes. I haven't read as much of ToB as I should have... the fighter level would just be for the feat, though. Still working on this.

Thanks for all the response.

Check out the Crusader from ToB, they have a 3rd level stance called Thicket of Blades that would be in line with what you are trying to do.
DerelictDroid
03-25-08, 10:46 PM I've recently been fooling around with a similar build (with Guisarme). Here's a list of feats I've gleaned from these boards that may be of some help to you.

Combat reflexes
Defensive Sweep (PHII)
Hold the Line (C. Warrior)
Deft Opportunist (C.Adv.)
Expert Tactician (C.Adv.)
Short Haft (PHII)
Overwhelming assault (PHII)
Robilar's Gambit (PHII)
Occult Opportunist
Evasive Reflexes (ToB)
Close-quarters Fighting (C. Warrior)
Thicket of Blades (Stance from ToB)
Stand Still

Hope that helps.
Valgoth
03-26-08, 11:53 AM I've recently been fooling around with a similar build (with Guisarme). Here's a list of feats I've gleaned from these boards that may be of some help to you.

Combat reflexes
Defensive Sweep (PHII)
Hold the Line (C. Warrior)
Deft Opportunist (C.Adv.)
Expert Tactician (C.Adv.)
Short Haft (PHII)
Overwhelming assault (PHII)
Robilar's Gambit (PHII)
Occult Opportunist
Evasive Reflexes (ToB)
Close-quarters Fighting (C. Warrior)
Thicket of Blades (Stance from ToB)
Stand Still

Hope that helps.

Nice... very. I recognize a lot of those, but will need to go back and check them out.

Many thanks.
Cifer
03-26-08, 03:55 PM That's true, to a point. But, I'm hoping to get a strong enough battlefield control that will disallow people to just "walk past". What with the reach weapon and AoOs and all. I'll have to look closer into it.

I don't think armor spikes aren't necessary because I'll be getting short-haft, which allows me to attack adjacent foes with the spear. I figure the -2 from short half will be offset by a) obvious upgrades to the spear b) weapon focus/spec (if applicable), e.t.c.

Spikes are somewhat tempting though... I'll have to start a real build and see where I'm at, feats-wise.
My problem with Short Haft is that it uses up a swift action, meaning you can change it only once per round and you can't threaten 5' and 10' simultaneously.

In my experience, you will usually want to fight those who don't want to fight you - anyone who's already attacking you is no danger for your buddies. With the knight's abilities, everyone who starts his turn within your threatened range is standing on difficult terrain, which is an extreme benefit to you since they can't 5' away. That means if you have the spikes, you can simply ignore enemies next to you, move 5' (or more) towards the guys who threaten the squishies and have both of them trapped in your threatened/difficult zone no matter how they stand.
Valgoth
03-26-08, 04:32 PM My problem with Short Haft is that it uses up a swift action, meaning you can change it only once per round and you can't threaten 5' and 10' simultaneously.

In my experience, you will usually want to fight those who don't want to fight you - anyone who's already attacking you is no danger for your buddies. With the knight's abilities, everyone who starts his turn within your threatened range is standing on difficult terrain, which is an extreme benefit to you since they can't 5' away. That means if you have the spikes, you can simply ignore enemies next to you, move 5' (or more) towards the guys who threaten the squishies and have both of them trapped in your threatened/difficult zone no matter how they stand.

I'm looking at shorten grip, from Dragon #331, instead of short haft. I haven't gotten ahold of the issue (a buddy of mine has it, though, so I'll get it soon) but from what I've found out elsewhere, allows you to attack adjacent foes with a polearm at -2 to attack... no action required.

I'm leaning heavily toward it, actually, though short haft wouldn't be HORRIBLE. Having played out typical combat, I only have to attack adjacent squares if the foe backs away from me, allowing me to get the AoO for him leaving my threatened square. Though, now that I think about it, short haft IS terrible, because they could still get away using a full retreat action (since I only threaten either close or far away... not both, thus they'd only leave one threatened square, which you can do for free in a full retreat.) So, shorten grip it is.

Another thought I had... what about improved unarmed strike? I believe I read somewhere that removing a hand from a 2 handed weapon (such as a longspear) is a negligable (free) action, thus letting me threaten 5' and 10'.

The reason I'm trying to accomplish both attacks with the spear is a simple one... maximizing cost versus constant use. While I could spend 50 gp on armour spikes (or the feat for Improved Unarmed Combat), I'd rather utilize my main weapon for the attack... so I get the benefits of my +1 vicious wounding longspear, instead of settling for plain ol' non-magical armour spikes (or spending the money to buff them up.)

Right now I'm looking at these feats for early:

Shorten Grip
Weapon Focus (longspear)
Combat Reflexes
mplindustries
03-27-08, 10:38 AM I'm looking at shorten grip, from Dragon #331, instead of short haft. I haven't gotten ahold of the issue (a buddy of mine has it, though, so I'll get it soon) but from what I've found out elsewhere, allows you to attack adjacent foes with a polearm at -2 to attack... no action required.

I'm leaning heavily toward it, actually, though short haft wouldn't be HORRIBLE. Having played out typical combat, I only have to attack adjacent squares if the foe backs away from me, allowing me to get the AoO for him leaving my threatened square. Though, now that I think about it, short haft IS terrible, because they could still get away using a full retreat action (since I only threaten either close or far away... not both, thus they'd only leave one threatened square, which you can do for free in a full retreat.) So, shorten grip it is.

Another thought I had... what about improved unarmed strike? I believe I read somewhere that removing a hand from a 2 handed weapon (such as a longspear) is a negligable (free) action, thus letting me threaten 5' and 10'.

The reason I'm trying to accomplish both attacks with the spear is a simple one... maximizing cost versus constant use. While I could spend 50 gp on armour spikes (or the feat for Improved Unarmed Combat), I'd rather utilize my main weapon for the attack... so I get the benefits of my +1 vicious wounding longspear, instead of settling for plain ol' non-magical armour spikes (or spending the money to buff them up.)

Right now I'm looking at these feats for early:

Shorten Grip
Weapon Focus (longspear)
Combat Reflexes

I'd be careful about Shorten Grip. While it definitely gives the ability to attack adjacent squares, I'm not terribly sure it actually lets you threaten them as well. I don't have the issue right now, but I wouldn't count on it until you can confirm it works. Just wear armor spikes and the problem is solved, though.
Valgoth
03-27-08, 11:44 PM I'd be careful about Shorten Grip. While it definitely gives the ability to attack adjacent squares, I'm not terribly sure it actually lets you threaten them as well. I don't have the issue right now, but I wouldn't count on it until you can confirm it works. Just wear armor spikes and the problem is solved, though.

That is very true. I'll have to check the feat ASAP.

In fact, I'll ask my buddy who has that issue about it right now...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Valgoth 03-20-08, 04:31 PM	I'm considering making a knight that uses a longspear. I can't remember the feat... maybe short-haft?... that allows you to attack adjacent foes with a reach weapon. Anyone have any idea? I like to concept of the knight. Plus, throw in combat reflexes and my spear-knight's "bullwark defense" class feature, and I've got battlefield control down to a science. There will be no getting away from me. Any suggestions as to other feats? I believe there's one that stops movement if you hit successfully. That'd rock.
Artector 03-20-08, 04:39 PM	For stopping movement Stand Still (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#standStill) would probably be the one you are referring to. I can't remember the name of the other feat you are talking about... I used one in that was in dragon... I think it gave a -2 to attack though...
rjsilverthorn 03-20-08, 05:36 PM	For stopping movement Stand Still (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#standStill) would probably be the one you are referring to. I can't remember the name of the other feat you are talking about... I used one in that was in dragon... I think it gave a -2 to attack though... Shorthaft(PHB2) lets you attack adjacent foes with a reach weapon, but it requires a swift action to change your grip. So you threaten at either 10' or 5', but not both. The Dragon feat, Shorten Grip, lets you threaten at 5' and 10', but imposes a -2 attack penalty at 5'.
mplindustries 03-20-08, 05:58 PM	Use spiked armor and don't waste a feat.
ciaran 03-20-08, 06:02 PM	You'll be giving up the Shield Block ability. Thinking about a Buckler maybe?
Valgoth 03-20-08, 06:06 PM	Shorthaft(PHB2) lets you attack adjacent foes with a reach weapon, but it requires a swift action to change your grip. So you threaten at either 10' or 5', but not both. The Dragon feat, Shorten Grip, lets you threaten at 5' and 10', but imposes a -2 attack penalty at 5'. Hmm... choices, choices. I'd probably go with Shorten Grip. I can usually maneuver around enough to attack from 10' on my turn. The 5' would be used most-often for AoOs (which I would be getting several of, thanks to "Bullwark Defense"). Plus, I'm somewhat certain there are feats that give bonuses for AoOs. I'm liking this build more and more...
Valgoth 03-20-08, 06:09 PM	You'll be giving up the Shield Block ability. Thinking about a Buckler maybe? Yeah. Oh... oooohhh... instead of getting short half, I could just take improved shield bash. Provided you can bash with a buckler. I stab from 10' and smack with my shield (spiked) from 5'. Can you bash with a buckler? Edit: Scratch that. 2WF. And you can't bash with a buckler. Same goes for armor spikes. Dur.
mplindustries 03-20-08, 06:40 PM	You can use Improved Buckler Defense to get your shield block ability back (yes, yes, this has been debated, and using it with a two-hander is legal after all). And you can still use Armor Spikes as an off-hand weapon if you want to TWF, though I wouldn't bother. Last thing: why would you use a Longspear if you're a Knight? Am I forgetting something? Don't they get martial weapon proficiency? Why not use a Glaive? Or Guisarme?
Valgoth 03-20-08, 10:04 PM	You can use Improved Buckler Defense to get your shield block ability back (yes, yes, this has been debated, and using it with a two-hander is legal after all). And you can still use Armor Spikes as an off-hand weapon if you want to TWF, though I wouldn't bother. Last thing: why would you use a Longspear if you're a Knight? Am I forgetting something? Don't they get martial weapon proficiency? Why not use a Glaive? Or Guisarme? I'd probably invest in improved buckler defense, yes. Well, living by the principal "It doesn't matter what you roll, it's what you add to it", I decided to go by reach weapons other abilities. So, the glaive is out (it has no other ability). Guisarm helps you trip, ranseur helps you disarm, spear/lance lets you ready against a charge to do double damage. Since, as a knight, I can't strike flatfooted opponents, I'm going to have to ready quite a bit ANYWAY, so I figure getting the big hurt on chargers would be cool. And I think lances are for wusses. Thus: longspear.
mplindustries 03-21-08, 04:39 AM	I'd probably invest in improved buckler defense, yes. Well, living by the principal "It doesn't matter what you roll, it's what you add to it", I decided to go by reach weapons other abilities. So, the glaive is out (it has no other ability). Guisarm helps you trip, ranseur helps you disarm, spear/lance lets you ready against a charge to do double damage. Since, as a knight, I can't strike flatfooted opponents, I'm going to have to ready quite a bit ANYWAY, so I figure getting the big hurt on chargers would be cool. And I think lances are for wusses. Thus: longspear. This is actually an excellent point. I forgot about the Knight's Code, and I think set vs. charge is a very underrated ability. I've used tridents over long swords both for players and npcs for years, and while it suprises people at first, they soon feel my wrath. You may want to look at Drow of the Underdark if you intend to ready a lot. There is a feat, Cautious Attack, that gives you a dodge bonus to AC when you ready an attack. I don't quite remember, it might be insignificant and thus not worth it, but it also could be a decent bonus...
1 ton ghost 03-21-08, 03:13 PM	you really thought this out. i wa particularly impressed w/ your mention of the code vs. flat-footed foes and your inclination to the spear vs. others. nj. it's rare, but some ppl bridge the gap w/ rules AND RP at the same time... plan ahead though. any prestige class you're looking at? alot of purists like to go Cavalier from Knight and i think Lance comes into play. Weapon Focus or something, not sure what they give you. you don't have to be mounted to use a lance btw and they don't all look like the jousting pieces you see. that is to say, many plains Indians (american that is) had lances so to speak, so did some Egyptian cav. still a reach weapon and all, won't have to keep swapping in/out from foot/mounted unless Quick Draw is your bag. whatever. reach and Bullwark of Defense...i thought about this too, but no one, not even me as a DM have actually used it. i like where your head's at. good luck.
Valgoth 03-21-08, 04:09 PM	you really thought this out. i wa particularly impressed w/ your mention of the code vs. flat-footed foes and your inclination to the spear vs. others. nj. it's rare, . . . about this too, but no one, not even me as a DM have actually used it. i like where your head's at. good luck. Thanks, I appreciate that. I'm thinking possibly Knight Protector or being a dwarf and going with Dwarven Defender. I'm not really sold on any prestige class, to be honest. I don't think I'll work much with mounts, but... who know?
Cifer 03-21-08, 06:35 PM	I don't think dwarf is such a great idea since you'll lack in mobility - one of the coolest knightly features is having armor that doesn't hinder your movement. With a dwarf, that would mean you'd go up from 20' to... 20'. Yep - "It's a dwarven defender! Quick, everyone, walk briskly!" In general, however, using armor spikes is quite practical, even if you don't enchant them or do anything else about them since you now threaten the 5' area for the great cost of 50gp. That's what I'd call a bargain.
Valgoth 03-21-08, 10:33 PM	I don't think dwarf is such a great idea since you'll lack in mobility - one of the coolest knightly features is having armor that doesn't hinder your movement. With a dwarf, that would mean you'd go up from 20' to... 20'. Yep - "It's a dwarven defender! Quick, everyone, walk briskly!" In general, however, using armor spikes is quite practical, even if you don't enchant them or do anything else about them since you now threaten the 5' area for the great cost of 50gp. That's what I'd call a bargain. That's true, to a point. But, I'm hoping to get a strong enough battlefield control that will disallow people to just "walk past". What with the reach weapon and AoOs and all. I'll have to look closer into it. I don't think armor spikes aren't necessary because I'll be getting short-haft, which allows me to attack adjacent foes with the spear. I figure the -2 from short half will be offset by a) obvious upgrades to the spear b) weapon focus/spec (if applicable), e.t.c. Spikes are somewhat tempting though... I'll have to start a real build and see where I'm at, feats-wise.
dirkformica 03-22-08, 12:07 AM	Another positive of Armor Spikes is that they can be used in a grapple. Not sure if the Shorthaft and Shorten Grip allow for that.
Fenrir_Greyback 03-22-08, 10:01 AM	Or you could take the longspear using fighting styler for the quintessential fighter. It's first ability is to use the spear close quarters as well as long ranged. Albeit at a -2 on attack rolls but you don't change your grip or anything. And no feat. Sounds like a good deal to me...
1 ton ghost 03-22-08, 12:35 PM	oh, God, i totally forgot about this, sorry. they updated the idea i thought of many years ago for a Stormlord given proclivity to spears. now in MagItmCmp, not sure if it's Sizing or what, but there is a Weapon Special Ability that can makes spears go; 1/2, full, or longspear. that's nice, let me tell you. you won't always be able to bust out a reach weapon in various urban areas, underdark or other subterranean environs, etc. you might suddenly need a free hand, etc. rare, but you never know when you're gonna' have to go ranged (hurl it) and time constraints make an issue...not to mention throwing reach weapons. in other words, versatility i have found to be more important and pragmatic than sheer damage capability etc. i mean, if you can't even use the weapon, all those Foci, Power Attacks, etc., mean nothing don't have the text w/ me, but it's definetly worth a look. thought it was a +1 ability, maybe just a flat rate of gp, not sure what it's Activation is either, but if it builds a better Knight for you, so be it.
pigknight 03-22-08, 06:51 PM	A couple levels in fighter might actually be useful for you. And knight protectors are excellent damage dealers if you want a bit o' extra damage (it's funny hw the knight protectors are basically all about damage). And for some reason warblade and tiger claw keep coming to mind (darn you Final Fantasty).
Valgoth 03-24-08, 04:21 PM	The weapon special ability is intriguing... though I rather have characters that start their build right away as opposed to later. Having to wait 3 or 4 levels to get a +2 weapon may make the feat worth it. I dunno though, still milling this around. I've also considered taking a level of fighter or one of the ToB classes. I haven't read as much of ToB as I should have... the fighter level would just be for the feat, though. Still working on this. Thanks for all the response.
rjsilverthorn 03-24-08, 06:26 PM	The weapon special ability is intriguing... though I rather have characters that start their build right away as opposed to later. Having to wait 3 or 4 levels to get a +2 weapon may make the feat worth it. I dunno though, still milling this around. I've also considered taking a level of fighter or one of the ToB classes. I haven't read as much of ToB as I should have... the fighter level would just be for the feat, though. Still working on this. Thanks for all the response. Check out the Crusader from ToB, they have a 3rd level stance called Thicket of Blades that would be in line with what you are trying to do.
DerelictDroid 03-25-08, 10:46 PM	I've recently been fooling around with a similar build (with Guisarme). Here's a list of feats I've gleaned from these boards that may be of some help to you. Combat reflexes Defensive Sweep (PHII) Hold the Line (C. Warrior) Deft Opportunist (C.Adv.) Expert Tactician (C.Adv.) Short Haft (PHII) Overwhelming assault (PHII) Robilar's Gambit (PHII) Occult Opportunist Evasive Reflexes (ToB) Close-quarters Fighting (C. Warrior) Thicket of Blades (Stance from ToB) Stand Still Hope that helps.
Valgoth 03-26-08, 11:53 AM	I've recently been fooling around with a similar build (with Guisarme). Here's a list of feats I've gleaned from these boards that may be of some help to you. Combat reflexes Defensive Sweep (PHII) Hold the Line (C. Warrior) Deft Opportunist (C.Adv.) Expert Tactician (C.Adv.) Short Haft (PHII) Overwhelming assault (PHII) Robilar's Gambit (PHII) Occult Opportunist Evasive Reflexes (ToB) Close-quarters Fighting (C. Warrior) Thicket of Blades (Stance from ToB) Stand Still Hope that helps. Nice... very. I recognize a lot of those, but will need to go back and check them out. Many thanks.
Cifer 03-26-08, 03:55 PM	That's true, to a point. But, I'm hoping to get a strong enough battlefield control that will disallow people to just "walk past". What with the reach weapon and AoOs and all. I'll have to look closer into it. I don't think armor spikes aren't necessary because I'll be getting short-haft, which allows me to attack adjacent foes with the spear. I figure the -2 from short half will be offset by a) obvious upgrades to the spear b) weapon focus/spec (if applicable), e.t.c. Spikes are somewhat tempting though... I'll have to start a real build and see where I'm at, feats-wise. My problem with Short Haft is that it uses up a swift action, meaning you can change it only once per round and you can't threaten 5' and 10' simultaneously. In my experience, you will usually want to fight those who don't want to fight you - anyone who's already attacking you is no danger for your buddies. With the knight's abilities, everyone who starts his turn within your threatened range is standing on difficult terrain, which is an extreme benefit to you since they can't 5' away. That means if you have the spikes, you can simply ignore enemies next to you, move 5' (or more) towards the guys who threaten the squishies and have both of them trapped in your threatened/difficult zone no matter how they stand.
Valgoth 03-26-08, 04:32 PM	My problem with Short Haft is that it uses up a swift action, meaning you can change it only once per round and you can't threaten 5' and 10' simultaneously. In my experience, you will usually want to fight those who don't want to fight you - anyone who's already attacking you is no danger for your buddies. With the knight's abilities, everyone who starts his turn within your threatened range is standing on difficult terrain, which is an extreme benefit to you since they can't 5' away. That means if you have the spikes, you can simply ignore enemies next to you, move 5' (or more) towards the guys who threaten the squishies and have both of them trapped in your threatened/difficult zone no matter how they stand. I'm looking at shorten grip, from Dragon #331, instead of short haft. I haven't gotten ahold of the issue (a buddy of mine has it, though, so I'll get it soon) but from what I've found out elsewhere, allows you to attack adjacent foes with a polearm at -2 to attack... no action required. I'm leaning heavily toward it, actually, though short haft wouldn't be HORRIBLE. Having played out typical combat, I only have to attack adjacent squares if the foe backs away from me, allowing me to get the AoO for him leaving my threatened square. Though, now that I think about it, short haft IS terrible, because they could still get away using a full retreat action (since I only threaten either close or far away... not both, thus they'd only leave one threatened square, which you can do for free in a full retreat.) So, shorten grip it is. Another thought I had... what about improved unarmed strike? I believe I read somewhere that removing a hand from a 2 handed weapon (such as a longspear) is a negligable (free) action, thus letting me threaten 5' and 10'. The reason I'm trying to accomplish both attacks with the spear is a simple one... maximizing cost versus constant use. While I could spend 50 gp on armour spikes (or the feat for Improved Unarmed Combat), I'd rather utilize my main weapon for the attack... so I get the benefits of my +1 vicious wounding longspear, instead of settling for plain ol' non-magical armour spikes (or spending the money to buff them up.) Right now I'm looking at these feats for early: Shorten Grip Weapon Focus (longspear) Combat Reflexes
mplindustries 03-27-08, 10:38 AM	I'm looking at shorten grip, from Dragon #331, instead of short haft. I haven't gotten ahold of the issue (a buddy of mine has it, though, so I'll get it soon) but from what I've found out elsewhere, allows you to attack adjacent foes with a polearm at -2 to attack... no action required. I'm leaning heavily toward it, actually, though short haft wouldn't be HORRIBLE. Having played out typical combat, I only have to attack adjacent squares if the foe backs away from me, allowing me to get the AoO for him leaving my threatened square. Though, now that I think about it, short haft IS terrible, because they could still get away using a full retreat action (since I only threaten either close or far away... not both, thus they'd only leave one threatened square, which you can do for free in a full retreat.) So, shorten grip it is. Another thought I had... what about improved unarmed strike? I believe I read somewhere that removing a hand from a 2 handed weapon (such as a longspear) is a negligable (free) action, thus letting me threaten 5' and 10'. The reason I'm trying to accomplish both attacks with the spear is a simple one... maximizing cost versus constant use. While I could spend 50 gp on armour spikes (or the feat for Improved Unarmed Combat), I'd rather utilize my main weapon for the attack... so I get the benefits of my +1 vicious wounding longspear, instead of settling for plain ol' non-magical armour spikes (or spending the money to buff them up.) Right now I'm looking at these feats for early: Shorten Grip Weapon Focus (longspear) Combat Reflexes I'd be careful about Shorten Grip. While it definitely gives the ability to attack adjacent squares, I'm not terribly sure it actually lets you threaten them as well. I don't have the issue right now, but I wouldn't count on it until you can confirm it works. Just wear armor spikes and the problem is solved, though.
Valgoth 03-27-08, 11:44 PM	I'd be careful about Shorten Grip. While it definitely gives the ability to attack adjacent squares, I'm not terribly sure it actually lets you threaten them as well. I don't have the issue right now, but I wouldn't count on it until you can confirm it works. Just wear armor spikes and the problem is solved, though. That is very true. I'll have to check the feat ASAP. In fact, I'll ask my buddy who has that issue about it right now...