Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shmeff 09-20-07, 07:52 PM	I don't remember the name, but I belive it allows a sorcerer to trade 2 spell slots of equal level for one one level higher. Does anyone know the name and location?
Tempest Stormwind 09-20-07, 09:00 PM	Versatile Spellcaster, Races of the Dragon. There's also the partner feat, Arcane Manipulation, in Lost Empires of Faerun. Personally, if you're going to go for that degree of freedom, why not just use psionics in the first place, though?
goawayugh 09-21-07, 09:15 AM	Personally, if you're going to go for that degree of freedom, why not just use psionics in the first place, though? Agreed.
Banatine 09-21-07, 10:04 AM	Maybe some people prefer the concept of gaining power from a magical bloodline. I would never play a psionicist because i don't like the concept of psychic power in D&D. I see them as unneccessary when magic could already do what they do, and do it while feeling comfortable in a fantasy game. On another note, what does arcane manipulation do?
Tempest Stormwind 09-21-07, 10:43 AM	Maybe some people prefer the concept of gaining power from a magical bloodline. I would never play a psionicist because i don't like the concept of psychic power in D&D. I see them as unneccessary when magic could already do what they do, and do it while feeling comfortable in a fantasy game. The fact that you use the obsolete term "psionicist" indicates that you're not really familiar with modern psionics. (You don't hear people discussing a thief, a mage or a specialty priest, do you? Then don't use 'psionicist'; the term is just as defunct.) This is entirely a flavor argument. Psionics can feel perfectly comfortable in a magic-based game. Just change a name or two and BAM! (i.e. while wizards use BOOK magic and sorcerers use DRAGON magic, a psion might use DREAM magic.) Alternatively, you could just as easily use the psionic *mechanics* for a sorcerer, since psionics are completely transparent with magic and nothing in the game distinguishes between arcane magic and psionics. Besides, didn't you notice how the PHB sorcerer fluff says DRAGONDRAGONDRAGON but later books with sorcerer feats (PHB2 most notably) clearly show that it could emerge from celestials, fiends, fey, and similar? Flavor is tailorable to your character. Please see the Truenaming Psionics link in my sig. Additionally, the wilder *is* a person who gains magical power from her bloodline -- a good inspiration would be Firestarter (Charlie got her powers because her parents had psychic ability), actually. On another note, what does arcane manipulation do? The opposite of Versatile Spellcaster; break down spell slots into lower level equivalents. If you *insist* on emulating psionic flexibility using slot-based mechanics (for whatever byzantine reason), consider looking at Arcana Evolved, where both of those feats are innate to the system (called "weaving" and "unweaving" slots).
goawayugh 09-21-07, 10:47 AM	There's also the spell point system (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spellPoints.htm) from UA. Kepp in mind though, that this will give your spellcasters a LOT more versitility, especially the prepared ones.
Banatine 09-21-07, 11:02 AM	The fact that you use the obsolete term "psionicist" indicates that you're not really familiar with modern psionics. (You don't hear people discussing a thief, a mage or a specialty priest, do you? Then don't use 'psionicist'; the term is just as defunct.) This is entirely a flavor argument. Psionics can feel perfectly comfortable in a magic-based game. Just change a name or two and BAM! (i.e. while wizards use BOOK magic and sorcerers use DRAGON magic, a psion might use DREAM magic.) Alternatively, you could just as easily use the psionic *mechanics* for a sorcerer, since psionics are completely transparent with magic and nothing in the game distinguishes between arcane magic and psionics. You don't have to get mad at me. Almost everyone i play with plays 2nd edition more than 3rd, and i prefer the term psionicist. Also, i have read (and own) the Expanded Psionics handbook. I have tried to like it, but i can't stop feeling that it simply isn't needed when magic is already there. Magic fits in better than psionics, period. Ultimately, it all comes down to personal preference. You take your psions, and i'll take my sorcerers, and we can both go our separate ways in peace.
goawayugh 09-21-07, 11:12 AM	I like magic better, but I like keeping tract of psionics better. If WotC could come up with a balanced system like power points but for magic, that would be AWESOME! I have always thought magic should function like psionics. Everyone has a magic "pool" from which you draw your magical power from. Casting a high level spell uses up a certain amount of the "magic pool". Casting a low level spell would use up less of the "magic pool". It has never made sense to me how a cleric can still be able to fire storm someone, but can't do cure light wounds (since he has used up all of his low level slots). I know you can always cast a lower level spell in a higher level slot, but why should it take the same amount of magical resources of an 8th level spell to cast a 1st level spell?
Tempest Stormwind 09-21-07, 12:18 PM	There's also the spell point system (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spellPoints.htm) from UA. Kepp in mind though, that this will give your spellcasters a LOT more versitility, especially the prepared ones. Problem: Spells weren't designed with spell points in mind. In general, powers are weaker than the equivalent spells (i.e. Shapechange's "equivalent" is Greater Metamorphosis, which is only open to Egoists (and no other type), lasts a tenth as long, and costs XP instead of a cheap focus). This is ostensibly to balance out the fact that you can freely choose how to spend your points, and it works. The problem is, magic doesn't work that way. It scales freely by caster level. So you need to do something to weaken all spells to allow for that degree of flexibility. Spell points automatically weaken all damage spells the same way powers do (they deal minimum dice of damage, with extra spell points providing extra damage)... but that doesn't help the oodles of non-damaging spells that scale by caster level or have binary effects (i.e. save-or-die; you'll note there's remarkably few in psionics and almost all of those are weak.) My quick solution to spell points is "Spells, damaging and nondamaging alike, all take effect at their minimum caster level. Each extra spell point you spend adds 1 to the effective caster level of the spell. As always, you can't spend more spell points at a single casting than your caster level." It's worked out quite well, although it still has problems due to the lack of a psionic focus mechanic for metamagic. You don't have to get mad at me. Almost everyone i play with plays 2nd edition more than 3rd, and i prefer the term psionicist. Fair enough, but this is a 3e board and as such should use 3e terms. We don't say fighters have better THAC0 than wizards, we say they have a higher attack bonus. Therefore, use the proper name for the manifesting class -- "manifester" as the catchall, or for the specific, psion, psychic warrior, wilder, ardent, lurk, erudite. Also, i have read (and own) the Expanded Psionics handbook. I have tried to like it, but i can't stop feeling that it simply isn't needed when magic is already there. Magic fits in better than psionics, period. You're welcome to your opinion, but know that this is factually wrong. They only fit in better because you want them to fit in better. Self-fulfilling prophecy. Remember what I said earlier about changing the fluff to suit you? Well, it's official. (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drpr/20070921a) And it doesn't have to be in just that one direction, either -- follow that link and look what they're doing for Bruce Cordell's character and pretty much everything in "session 3". Ultimately, it all comes down to personal preference. You take your psions, and i'll take my sorcerers, and we can both go our separate ways in peace. Fine, but don't come complaining when you need to buy multiple extra books and spend a third of your character resources to cheaply approximate what another system does for free. (The sorcerer will be more powerful, though.)
redarius 09-22-07, 01:48 PM	I'm playing a dragon sorcerer with a lot of the races of the dragon / dragon magic class features. It's been a great deal of fun because basically I've given my DM free reign to manipulate me through my dragon pact and heritage feats. *grin* I've considered taking the two feats at issue here, but since feats are such a scarce resource for sorcerers (even a human, which I'm playing), I've focused on other options like making sure I have versatile spell choices. The points raised about slot flexbility being inferior to psionics is pretty spot on, imo. But... if you want these feats, you'll have fun playing a flexible casting sorcerer. I don't generally find myself running low on slots, though... since... you get so many.
Jaxgaret 09-23-07, 01:47 AM	I am currently playing a Warmage/Exalted Arcanist/Fatespinner/Holy Scourge who has the Versatile Spellcaster feat as well as Quicken Spell. Can you say "going nova"? :) For the really tough battles, I can burn through spell slots like nobody's business. I know that it's a suboptimal build, but it sure is fun.