Looking for a feat to increase maximum skill ranks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Looking for a feat to increase maximum skill ranks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Raist1280
04-06-07, 09:22 AM Hi,

I'm looking for a feat that would increase the maximum ranks a character can have in a class skill from Level +3 to Level +4. I have never seen sucha feat, but my DM continues to insist that it exists, though whenever pressed tells me he doesn't remember the name, and he'll look into it and get back to me.

Does such a feat exist and if so what feat is it, and where is it from?

Thank you,
-Raist1280
Aracor
04-06-07, 09:38 AM No such feat exists in any WotC source. Nor should it exist anywhere else, it would tip the level-based balance and make prestige classes available sooner than they should be.
DrMorganes
04-06-07, 09:39 AM I've never heard of it, and it's not in any of the books I own, have borrowed, or even perused. Could be in some third-part splatbook...

I'd never allow such a feat in one of my games. That teeny tiny +1 to max ranks means entry into prestige classes an entire level early. PrCs in general aren't supposed to be available until reaching Character Level 6.
Witch
04-06-07, 09:43 AM I believe this feat is in Cityscape. It definitely exists in a printed WotC source, but I'm unsure whether it's Cityscape, Dungeonscape or one of the recent Complete books.
runestar
04-06-07, 09:54 AM It should be in cityscape. I think it is a favoured in guild benefit, raises the cap for one of your skills to 4+HD.:)
tarkin
04-06-07, 10:57 AM Note, if this is legal, it seriously affect game balance.

Specifically, it lets people take many Prestige classes one level earlier than they otherwise would.
Witch
04-06-07, 11:01 AM True, but I rather doubt that one level will have a serious impact. What is more disturbing is that this sets a precedent for further, similar design. If this eventually happens by several skill ranks, this could prove problematic.
WinterPsionic
04-06-07, 12:12 PM As much as I'd love a feat to increase the rank cap by one for maybe 3 skills it would considerably one of THE BEST low level feats in existence...

Cityscape does have the one as mentioned by Runestar but IIRC I thought it was only a +1 to the skill and it's always concidered a class skill.
runestar
04-06-07, 11:11 PM I agree with Witch that while this benefit is not that significant in itself, it does seem to violate one of the fundamental principles governing dnd(max ranks at any one time = HD+3).

It does present some sort of a slippery slope. One that should not become a problem if monitored closely and carefully. But with wotc involved, I still have my reservations...:P
SD
04-06-07, 11:18 PM FINE, I'll be the one who looks it up.

Alright, check it. The feat Primary Contact requires the feat Favored, which in turn requires campaign group membership, so it's already world- and DM-dependent. Primary Contact, in addition to a contact-related benefit, gives you one rank in one skill that's associated with the organization to which your contact, whom you must have already had as an existing contact before taking this feat, belongs.

So it's a second-level feat, flavor-based, that can only be taken once, and having it requires that you uphold the restrictions and duties of being in one of the campaign's organizations. I'm not terribly worried about this breaking the game all that hard.
DrMorganes
04-06-07, 11:44 PM +1 max ranks in a single skill is not a huge deal. Prestige Classes with skill rank prereqs generally have multiple skills on that list. +1 to max ranks for ALL skills would be a serious issue.

True, but I rather doubt that one level will have a serious impact. What is more disturbing is that this sets a precedent for further, similar design. If this eventually happens by several skill ranks, this could prove problematic.

I'm not sure I agree with you, Witch. The relative power from level to level doesn't scale in a linear manner. Being able to enter a prestige class at Character Level 5 could have an impact on game balance. Granted, it's nothing that a competent DM wouldn't be able to handle - but the question isn't, "Can you handle the result?" The question is, "Why should you have to worry about it?"
runestar
04-06-07, 11:59 PM Because it is high time the burden of balancing things stopped being carried by the dms, and wotc started taking some responsibility by playtesting their material more extensively? Some potential game imbalances are not as apparent as they may seem. Quite often, I usually just take existing printed material for granted, but maybe that's just me.:embarrass
StevenO
04-07-07, 12:11 AM Aside from sidestepping skill based prereqs and allowing them to be met a level earlier why take such a feat? Perhaps you really feel you need a higher modifier than you could get after aquiring +3 from Skill Focus and another +2 from one of those skill-pair type feats.

Given the run down on the one apparently legal method of increasing maximum skill rank that may not be too bad. All those hoops do illustrate why is shouldn't be easy to increase the max skill rank by even a point.
runestar
04-07-07, 12:24 AM Well, it can allow you to qualify for feats up to 3 lvs earlier.
Some feats may have odd skill rank requirements, which may not be all that compatible with the rate at which you can access feats.

For example, graft flesh requires 10 ranks in heal, meaning you have to be at least lv7. But the soonest you typically get a feat will be at 9th lv. However, with this effect, you can get 10 ranks in heal by 6th lv, thus letting you acquire said feat at as soon as 6th lv(though utilizing it effectively is another problem, but lets just overlook that minor technicality for now, since my purpose was simply to highlight a possible side-benefit).:)
Raist1280
04-07-07, 08:40 AM I believe this feat is in Cityscape. It definitely exists in a printed WotC source, but I'm unsure whether it's Cityscape, Dungeonscape or one of the recent Complete books.

Thank you, I found what I was looking for in Cityscape. The Primary Contact feat grants +1 rank in a skill, which can exceed the maximum allowable skill ranks (among other things). It also requires taking the Favored feat, so it doesn't look like it should be too unbalancing.

-Raist1280
Raist1280
04-07-07, 08:48 AM Aside from sidestepping skill based prereqs and allowing them to be met a level earlier why take such a feat? Perhaps you really feel you need a higher modifier than you could get after aquiring +3 from Skill Focus and another +2 from one of those skill-pair type feats.

Given the run down on the one apparently legal method of increasing maximum skill rank that may not be too bad. All those hoops do illustrate why is shouldn't be easy to increase the max skill rank by even a point.

Sidestepping the skill prereq was exactly my intention. Like you I can't really see the use of such a feat otherwise. At 4th level I already meet every prereq for the prestige class I'm trying to get into, except that I'm 1 skill point short in one of my skills, thus I was looking for a way to circumvent that skill requirement rather than taking a standard class for another level (which is a considerably lesser benefit than getting into the prestige class).

My DM still insists that he can find a feat that will do this without all the extra requirements and "hoops" but I find I agree with all of you in that the feat he keeps talking about is drastically unbalancing, and unlikely to really exist.

-Raist1280
Vaelan
04-07-07, 04:11 PM I've been playing pretty loose with mechanical restrictions for Prestige Classes for quite a while now. Allowing access to classes a level or two earlier isn't a big deal.

The only exceptions I've seen are the self-contained spellcasting classes such as Ur-Priest and Sublime Chord. You don't want people taking those too early, but all of them happen to require multiple skills anyway.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Raist1280 04-06-07, 09:22 AM	Hi, I'm looking for a feat that would increase the maximum ranks a character can have in a class skill from Level +3 to Level +4. I have never seen sucha feat, but my DM continues to insist that it exists, though whenever pressed tells me he doesn't remember the name, and he'll look into it and get back to me. Does such a feat exist and if so what feat is it, and where is it from? Thank you, -Raist1280
Aracor 04-06-07, 09:38 AM	No such feat exists in any WotC source. Nor should it exist anywhere else, it would tip the level-based balance and make prestige classes available sooner than they should be.
DrMorganes 04-06-07, 09:39 AM	I've never heard of it, and it's not in any of the books I own, have borrowed, or even perused. Could be in some third-part splatbook... I'd never allow such a feat in one of my games. That teeny tiny +1 to max ranks means entry into prestige classes an entire level early. PrCs in general aren't supposed to be available until reaching Character Level 6.
Witch 04-06-07, 09:43 AM	I believe this feat is in Cityscape. It definitely exists in a printed WotC source, but I'm unsure whether it's Cityscape, Dungeonscape or one of the recent Complete books.
runestar 04-06-07, 09:54 AM	It should be in cityscape. I think it is a favoured in guild benefit, raises the cap for one of your skills to 4+HD.:)
tarkin 04-06-07, 10:57 AM	Note, if this is legal, it seriously affect game balance. Specifically, it lets people take many Prestige classes one level earlier than they otherwise would.
Witch 04-06-07, 11:01 AM	True, but I rather doubt that one level will have a serious impact. What is more disturbing is that this sets a precedent for further, similar design. If this eventually happens by several skill ranks, this could prove problematic.
WinterPsionic 04-06-07, 12:12 PM	As much as I'd love a feat to increase the rank cap by one for maybe 3 skills it would considerably one of THE BEST low level feats in existence... Cityscape does have the one as mentioned by Runestar but IIRC I thought it was only a +1 to the skill and it's always concidered a class skill.
runestar 04-06-07, 11:11 PM	I agree with Witch that while this benefit is not that significant in itself, it does seem to violate one of the fundamental principles governing dnd(max ranks at any one time = HD+3). It does present some sort of a slippery slope. One that should not become a problem if monitored closely and carefully. But with wotc involved, I still have my reservations...:P
SD 04-06-07, 11:18 PM	FINE, I'll be the one who looks it up. Alright, check it. The feat Primary Contact requires the feat Favored, which in turn requires campaign group membership, so it's already world- and DM-dependent. Primary Contact, in addition to a contact-related benefit, gives you one rank in one skill that's associated with the organization to which your contact, whom you must have already had as an existing contact before taking this feat, belongs. So it's a second-level feat, flavor-based, that can only be taken once, and having it requires that you uphold the restrictions and duties of being in one of the campaign's organizations. I'm not terribly worried about this breaking the game all that hard.
DrMorganes 04-06-07, 11:44 PM	+1 max ranks in a single skill is not a huge deal. Prestige Classes with skill rank prereqs generally have multiple skills on that list. +1 to max ranks for ALL skills would be a serious issue. True, but I rather doubt that one level will have a serious impact. What is more disturbing is that this sets a precedent for further, similar design. If this eventually happens by several skill ranks, this could prove problematic. I'm not sure I agree with you, Witch. The relative power from level to level doesn't scale in a linear manner. Being able to enter a prestige class at Character Level 5 could have an impact on game balance. Granted, it's nothing that a competent DM wouldn't be able to handle - but the question isn't, "Can you handle the result?" The question is, "Why should you have to worry about it?"
runestar 04-06-07, 11:59 PM	Because it is high time the burden of balancing things stopped being carried by the dms, and wotc started taking some responsibility by playtesting their material more extensively? Some potential game imbalances are not as apparent as they may seem. Quite often, I usually just take existing printed material for granted, but maybe that's just me.:embarrass
StevenO 04-07-07, 12:11 AM	Aside from sidestepping skill based prereqs and allowing them to be met a level earlier why take such a feat? Perhaps you really feel you need a higher modifier than you could get after aquiring +3 from Skill Focus and another +2 from one of those skill-pair type feats. Given the run down on the one apparently legal method of increasing maximum skill rank that may not be too bad. All those hoops do illustrate why is shouldn't be easy to increase the max skill rank by even a point.
runestar 04-07-07, 12:24 AM	Well, it can allow you to qualify for feats up to 3 lvs earlier. Some feats may have odd skill rank requirements, which may not be all that compatible with the rate at which you can access feats. For example, graft flesh requires 10 ranks in heal, meaning you have to be at least lv7. But the soonest you typically get a feat will be at 9th lv. However, with this effect, you can get 10 ranks in heal by 6th lv, thus letting you acquire said feat at as soon as 6th lv(though utilizing it effectively is another problem, but lets just overlook that minor technicality for now, since my purpose was simply to highlight a possible side-benefit).:)
Raist1280 04-07-07, 08:40 AM	I believe this feat is in Cityscape. It definitely exists in a printed WotC source, but I'm unsure whether it's Cityscape, Dungeonscape or one of the recent Complete books. Thank you, I found what I was looking for in Cityscape. The Primary Contact feat grants +1 rank in a skill, which can exceed the maximum allowable skill ranks (among other things). It also requires taking the Favored feat, so it doesn't look like it should be too unbalancing. -Raist1280
Raist1280 04-07-07, 08:48 AM	Aside from sidestepping skill based prereqs and allowing them to be met a level earlier why take such a feat? Perhaps you really feel you need a higher modifier than you could get after aquiring +3 from Skill Focus and another +2 from one of those skill-pair type feats. Given the run down on the one apparently legal method of increasing maximum skill rank that may not be too bad. All those hoops do illustrate why is shouldn't be easy to increase the max skill rank by even a point. Sidestepping the skill prereq was exactly my intention. Like you I can't really see the use of such a feat otherwise. At 4th level I already meet every prereq for the prestige class I'm trying to get into, except that I'm 1 skill point short in one of my skills, thus I was looking for a way to circumvent that skill requirement rather than taking a standard class for another level (which is a considerably lesser benefit than getting into the prestige class). My DM still insists that he can find a feat that will do this without all the extra requirements and "hoops" but I find I agree with all of you in that the feat he keeps talking about is drastically unbalancing, and unlikely to really exist. -Raist1280
Vaelan 04-07-07, 04:11 PM	I've been playing pretty loose with mechanical restrictions for Prestige Classes for quite a while now. Allowing access to classes a level or two earlier isn't a big deal. The only exceptions I've seen are the self-contained spellcasting classes such as Ur-Priest and Sublime Chord. You don't want people taking those too early, but all of them happen to require multiple skills anyway.