Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Han Duo 03-24-08, 07:38 PM	One of my players has a ranger that he advanced far enough to have the special ability combat style: 2 weapon combat. This means that he is treated as having the two weapon fighting feat. From this point on he has advanced as a different class, and he plans to take the improved two weapon fighting feat as the choice for a regular feat. Now the ranger combat style only works if he wears light or no armor, but the regular feats do not have this limitation. So what happens if he decides to wear medium or heavy armor? His improved two weapon fighting feat still stands, but his normal two weapon fighting ability doesn't count anymore. Does this mean he gets no extra attacks with his off hand weapon? Or two attacks with his off hand weapon for having the improved two weapon fighting feat? Or one attack with his off hand weapon for having one of the two feats remaining?
mplindustries 03-24-08, 07:51 PM	One of my players has a ranger that he advanced far enough to have the special ability combat style: 2 weapon combat. This means that he is treated as having the two weapon fighting feat. From this point on he has advanced as a different class, and he plans to take the improved two weapon fighting feat as the choice for a regular feat. Now the ranger combat style only works if he wears light or no armor, but the regular feats do not have this limitation. So what happens if he decides to wear medium or heavy armor? His improved two weapon fighting feat still stands, but his normal two weapon fighting ability doesn't count anymore. Does this mean he gets no extra attacks with his off hand weapon? Or two attacks with his off hand weapon for having the improved two weapon fighting feat? Or one attack with his off hand weapon for having one of the two feats remaining? He gets no extra attacks, as he has lost the "virtual feat" that serves as a pre-requisite for Improved Two-Weapon Fighting. If you no longer meet the pre-requisites for something, you can no longer use it/benefit from it. For example, a fighter who drops below 13 strength loses the use of power attack (and thus also cleave, leap attack, etc. if he has those). Now he doesn't actually lose the virtual feat, just use of it. So as soon as he put light armor back on, he'd be good to go.
Han Duo 03-24-08, 07:53 PM	He gets no extra attacks, as he has lost the "virtual feat" that serves as a pre-requisite for Improved Two-Weapon Fighting. If you no longer meet the pre-requisites for something, you can no longer use it/benefit from it. For example, a fighter who drops below 13 strength loses the use of power attack (and thus also cleave, leap attack, etc. if he has those). Now he doesn't actually lose the virtual feat, just use of it. So as soon as he put light armor back on, he'd be good to go. But isn't a prerequisite only needed for acquiring the feat, technically not for using it?
BugHunter 03-24-08, 08:10 PM	So what happens if he decides to wear medium or heavy armor? His improved two weapon fighting feat still stands, but his normal two weapon fighting ability doesn't count anymore. Does this mean he gets no extra attacks with his off hand weapon? Or two attacks with his off hand weapon for having the improved two weapon fighting feat? Or one attack with his off hand weapon for having one of the two feats remaining? He would be able to get one off-hand attack at the massive penalties -6/-10 or -4/-8 if the off-hand weapon is light. He loses the ability to use the improved two weapon fighting since the ability to have the feat is only due to the ranger's class feature. There is a question in the FAQ on page 84 that is close to this but asked for a polymorph spell. I hope this helps.
Salla 03-24-08, 08:29 PM	But isn't a prerequisite only needed for acquiring the feat, technically not for using it? Nope. If you don't meet the prerequisites, you lose access to the feat.
herrdoktor 03-24-08, 08:47 PM	But isn't a prerequisite only needed for acquiring the feat, technically not for using it? not with feats. this is true for some other things, though, like acquiring vs. using maneuvers (tome of battle)
risner 03-25-08, 11:43 AM	So what happens if he decides to wear medium or heavy armor? His improved two weapon fighting feat still stands, but his normal two weapon fighting ability doesn't count anymore. Does this mean he gets no extra attacks with his off hand weapon? Or two attacks with his off hand weapon for having the improved two weapon fighting feat? Or one attack with his off hand weapon for having one of the two feats remaining? No extra attacks (both TWF and ITWF are disabled.)
BugHunter 03-25-08, 09:05 PM	No extra attacks (both TWF and ITWF are disabled.) Anybody can do two weapon fighting for one extra attack with the massive penalties on each attack. You only lose the benefits of the TWF tree. The TWF tree doesn't grant you the ability fight with two weapons it just makes it viable option to fight with two weapons.