Lunging Strike [Archive] - Wizards Community

Lunging Strike [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mighty_Draco
07-01-07, 09:30 PM So I was looking at the lunging strike feat (it lets you make 1 attack as a full round action at a +5 foot reach) from PHBII and the first thing that came to me was that it looked like a useless feat that would never come into play and forgot about it. But after looking at the section in the PHB on AoOs I noticed that it says that you threaten all squares you can make a melee attack. So that seems to beg two questions. The first is that does that mean taking Lunging Strike mean you threaten additional squares? If so, does that mean you can make an AoO on someone 10 feat away from you when it would otherwise take a full round action?
Kouk
07-02-07, 01:40 AM Making an Attack of Opportunity

An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack, and you can only make one per round. You don’t have to make an attack of opportunity if you don’t want to.

Lunging Strike allows you to make a single melee attack as a full round action.

You are not able to substitute a full round action as an attack of opportunity, just a regular swing.

The feat Lunging Strike does not indicate that your reach lasts until your next turn, so I would say it does not and your reach remains as normal after you use the feat.

If you want to threaten an area greater than normal, you have to use a bigger weapon.

The feat Lunging Strike is not entirely useless, just mostly useless. You should be able to execute a special attack with it, such as a Trip. You also can deliver a Touch spell with reach, which might help you keep out of range of an enemy's retaliation.
You might also find use from it by standing behind an ally or some obstacle, so that you cannot be attacked in return except by ranged or reach weapons. If you use a melee weapon but find yourself stuck behind an ally in a tight hallway, you can at least make an attack without waiting for your friend to move his butt out of the way.

If you are a Bard with a whip you might get a lot of mileage out of this. You get to stay far out of an enemy's reach while still sort of contributing to the brawl. This way you don't have to take Point Blank and Precise to attack at an OK range, (but I still would prefer a bow over a whip myself).

This same book introduced the Duskblade I believe, perhaps it would be of some use delivering your spells through your weapon channeling?
tarkin
07-02-07, 10:39 AM Note, when he said "bigger weapon" he meant a weapon with reach.

If you remain your own size and get a Giant's longsword, you do NOT threaten a larger area.

Lunging Strike is mainly a way to overcome a creature's reach.

I.E. The ogre has 10ft reach, you only have 5ft reach. You want to hit him without having to take an AoO when you move into his threatened zone.

Then, next round, you take a 5ft step in and do a full round attack on him.
AlterFrom
07-02-07, 11:18 AM You are not able to substitute a full round action as an attack of opportunity, just a regular swing.

Where are you getting this? I can't find a mention of it in the proper section of the PHB, SRD, or either of the erratas it would likely be in (PHB, DMG).
Dalthbar
07-02-07, 11:21 AM Where are you getting this? I can't find a mention of it in the proper section of the PHB, SRD, or either of the erratas it would likely be in (PHB, DMG).
Under the Making An Attack of Opportunity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/attacksOfOpportunity.htm#makinganAttacko fOpportunity) section, it says "An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack, and you can only make one per round". Thus, if it's a "single melee attack", you can't use an action that would otherwise take longer than that (e.g., a full round action).
AlterFrom
07-02-07, 12:47 PM Not that I disagree (it's a little ridiculous to squeeze 6 seconds of attack into a split second ;) ), but knowing how things like this are worded, I wouldn't be surprised if lunging strike said something similar to "As a full round action, you may make a single melee attack with an additional 5 feet of reach."

Can anyone confirm/deny the wording compared what I suspect?
Dalthbar
07-02-07, 12:50 PM Can anyone confirm/deny the wording compared what I suspect?
You can take a look at the Lunging Strike (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Lunging_Strike,) language via that link.

You still can't fit a full round action into a standard action or single melee attack action though.
Karla
07-03-07, 06:39 AM When you can buy (Magic Item Compendium) Greatreach Bracers for 2000gp which will give you 15' reach (+10'), 3 times a day, the value of Lunging Strike would seem to be even more dubious now.

(Whilst the combo of Greatreach Bracers with a +1 Whirling enhancement on your sword would appear to be gross, fun or possibly both!)
tui
07-03-07, 01:13 PM Not that I disagree (it's a little ridiculous to squeeze 6 seconds of attack into a split second ;) ), but knowing how things like this are worded, I wouldn't be surprised if lunging strike said something similar to "As a full round action, you may make a single melee attack with an additional 5 feet of reach."
It doesn't really matter, as long as it requires a full round to execute. Read this Rules of the Game article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050614a) on Actions. Attacks of Opportunity are "Nonactions" that effectively take up no time.

On an AoO you can't use a Full-Round action or a Standard Action; you can only "make a single melee attack". Even though Lunging Strike is a "single melee attack", it explicitly states that it takes a Full-Round Action to execute, and thus can't be done unless you have that much time.

The implications of that are not just about AoOs; it also impacts flanking. If you're 10 feet away from your enemy and are using Lunging Strike without a reach weapon, you don't technically Threaten, because "You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your action". If you can't take an AoO with Lunging Strike, then you can't use that attack when it isn't your turn... which means you don't provide a flanking bonus to your ally.

At least that's my reading of it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mighty_Draco 07-01-07, 09:30 PM	So I was looking at the lunging strike feat (it lets you make 1 attack as a full round action at a +5 foot reach) from PHBII and the first thing that came to me was that it looked like a useless feat that would never come into play and forgot about it. But after looking at the section in the PHB on AoOs I noticed that it says that you threaten all squares you can make a melee attack. So that seems to beg two questions. The first is that does that mean taking Lunging Strike mean you threaten additional squares? If so, does that mean you can make an AoO on someone 10 feat away from you when it would otherwise take a full round action?
Kouk 07-02-07, 01:40 AM	Making an Attack of Opportunity An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack, and you can only make one per round. You don’t have to make an attack of opportunity if you don’t want to. Lunging Strike allows you to make a single melee attack as a full round action. You are not able to substitute a full round action as an attack of opportunity, just a regular swing. The feat Lunging Strike does not indicate that your reach lasts until your next turn, so I would say it does not and your reach remains as normal after you use the feat. If you want to threaten an area greater than normal, you have to use a bigger weapon. The feat Lunging Strike is not entirely useless, just mostly useless. You should be able to execute a special attack with it, such as a Trip. You also can deliver a Touch spell with reach, which might help you keep out of range of an enemy's retaliation. You might also find use from it by standing behind an ally or some obstacle, so that you cannot be attacked in return except by ranged or reach weapons. If you use a melee weapon but find yourself stuck behind an ally in a tight hallway, you can at least make an attack without waiting for your friend to move his butt out of the way. If you are a Bard with a whip you might get a lot of mileage out of this. You get to stay far out of an enemy's reach while still sort of contributing to the brawl. This way you don't have to take Point Blank and Precise to attack at an OK range, (but I still would prefer a bow over a whip myself). This same book introduced the Duskblade I believe, perhaps it would be of some use delivering your spells through your weapon channeling?
tarkin 07-02-07, 10:39 AM	Note, when he said "bigger weapon" he meant a weapon with reach. If you remain your own size and get a Giant's longsword, you do NOT threaten a larger area. Lunging Strike is mainly a way to overcome a creature's reach. I.E. The ogre has 10ft reach, you only have 5ft reach. You want to hit him without having to take an AoO when you move into his threatened zone. Then, next round, you take a 5ft step in and do a full round attack on him.
AlterFrom 07-02-07, 11:18 AM	You are not able to substitute a full round action as an attack of opportunity, just a regular swing. Where are you getting this? I can't find a mention of it in the proper section of the PHB, SRD, or either of the erratas it would likely be in (PHB, DMG).
Dalthbar 07-02-07, 11:21 AM	Where are you getting this? I can't find a mention of it in the proper section of the PHB, SRD, or either of the erratas it would likely be in (PHB, DMG). Under the Making An Attack of Opportunity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/attacksOfOpportunity.htm#makinganAttacko fOpportunity) section, it says "An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack, and you can only make one per round". Thus, if it's a "single melee attack", you can't use an action that would otherwise take longer than that (e.g., a full round action).
AlterFrom 07-02-07, 12:47 PM	Not that I disagree (it's a little ridiculous to squeeze 6 seconds of attack into a split second ;) ), but knowing how things like this are worded, I wouldn't be surprised if lunging strike said something similar to "As a full round action, you may make a single melee attack with an additional 5 feet of reach." Can anyone confirm/deny the wording compared what I suspect?
Dalthbar 07-02-07, 12:50 PM	Can anyone confirm/deny the wording compared what I suspect? You can take a look at the Lunging Strike (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Lunging_Strike,) language via that link. You still can't fit a full round action into a standard action or single melee attack action though.
Karla 07-03-07, 06:39 AM	When you can buy (Magic Item Compendium) Greatreach Bracers for 2000gp which will give you 15' reach (+10'), 3 times a day, the value of Lunging Strike would seem to be even more dubious now. (Whilst the combo of Greatreach Bracers with a +1 Whirling enhancement on your sword would appear to be gross, fun or possibly both!)
tui 07-03-07, 01:13 PM	Not that I disagree (it's a little ridiculous to squeeze 6 seconds of attack into a split second ;) ), but knowing how things like this are worded, I wouldn't be surprised if lunging strike said something similar to "As a full round action, you may make a single melee attack with an additional 5 feet of reach." It doesn't really matter, as long as it requires a full round to execute. Read this Rules of the Game article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050614a) on Actions. Attacks of Opportunity are "Nonactions" that effectively take up no time. On an AoO you can't use a Full-Round action or a Standard Action; you can only "make a single melee attack". Even though Lunging Strike is a "single melee attack", it explicitly states that it takes a Full-Round Action to execute, and thus can't be done unless you have that much time. The implications of that are not just about AoOs; it also impacts flanking. If you're 10 feet away from your enemy and are using Lunging Strike without a reach weapon, you don't technically Threaten, because "You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your action". If you can't take an AoO with Lunging Strike, then you can't use that attack when it isn't your turn... which means you don't provide a flanking bonus to your ally. At least that's my reading of it.