Mage Slayer + Psionics [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mage Slayer + Psionics [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Radiant117
05-30-07, 06:30 AM I've heard somewhere that Mage Slayer caster level penalty doesn't affect psionic manifester level. Some people, though, point at magic/psionic transparency rule and say it does. Can someone help me find a ruling on this matter?

((P.S. Yes, I've tried searching.))
The_Ditto
05-30-07, 07:51 AM I've heard somewhere that Mage Slayer caster level penalty doesn't affect psionic manifester level. Some people, though, point at magic/psionic transparency rule and say it does. Can someone help me find a ruling on this matter?

((P.S. Yes, I've tried searching.))

I'd say due to these feats:

ANTIPSIONIC MAGIC [GENERAL]
Your spells are more potent when used against psionic characters and creatures.
Prerequisite: Spellcraft 5 ranks.
Benefit: You get a get a +2 bonus on caster level checks made to overcome a psionic creature’s power resistance.
This bonus stacks with the bonus conferred by Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration. Moreover, whenever a psionic creature attempts to dispel a spell you cast, it makes its manifester level check against a DC of 13 + its manifester level.
The benefits of this feat apply only to power resistance.
The bonus does not apply to spell resistance. This is an exception to the psionics–magic transparency rule.
Special: You cannot take or use this feat if you have the ability to use powers (if you have a power point reserve or psi-like abilities).

CLOSED MIND [GENERAL]
Your mind is better able to resist psionics than normal.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all saving throws to resist powers.
The benefit of this feat applies only to psionic powers and psi-like abilities. This is an exception to the psionics–magic transparency rule.
Special: You cannot take or use this feat if you have the ability to use powers (if you have a power point reserve or psi-like abilities).

PSIONIC HOLE [GENERAL]
You are anathema to psionic creatures and characters.
Prerequisite: Con 15.
Benefit: When a foe strikes you in melee combat, the foe immediately loses its psionic focus, if any. Also, if you are the target of a power, the manifester of the power must spend an additional number of power points equal to your Wisdom bonus, or the power fails (all the power points spent on the power are still lost). This extra cost does not count toward the maximum power points a manifester can spend on a single power.
Special: You cannot take or use this feat if you have the ability to use powers (if you have a power point reserve or psi-like abilities).

... etc ...

The whole "Psionic slayer" line is already covered ...

Official from Wizards? Don't know ... toss the question to cust serv ...

I'm sure it'll eventually come down to your DM, really .. I know I always hate hearing that as a "cop-out" .. but in this case ... it all depends on the level of transparency your DM wants to play with ..

Cheers
:tiphat:
tui
05-30-07, 10:18 AM I think the OP was wondering if the side effects of taking the Mage Slayer feat apply to a Psionics character -- meaning does their "caster level" take a hit.... Not whether the Mage Slayer benefits prevent an enemy Psionic from manifesting while threatened.

I don't know squat about Psionics, so I won't even try to answer.
Feroz
05-30-07, 10:23 AM The default rule for the interaction of psionics and magic is simple: Powers interact with spells and spells interact with powers in the same way a spell or normal spell-like ability interacts with another spell or spell-like ability. This is known as psionics-magic transparency.

So the transparency equates a psionic power with a spell-like ability, so if you reduce your caster level for spell-like abilities, you reduce your manifester level as well.
The_Ditto
05-30-07, 02:24 PM Again, I'll repeat my point ... it's going to depend on what level of transparency your DM wants to play with ...

Points mentioned are all well and good ... however, as it isn't covered "clearly" in the rules (is anything psionic? :rolleyes: ), it's going to end up a DM judgement call to decide how (s)he wants to handle it in their campaign.

Me, personally?
I usually play with a great deal of transparency (ie Craft Universal = Craft Wondrous, Brew Potion = Scribe Tattoo, Empower Power = Empower Spell, etc ....), so would probably go with the "treat them the same" ... as Feroz pointed out ...
:tiphat:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Radiant117 05-30-07, 06:30 AM	I've heard somewhere that Mage Slayer caster level penalty doesn't affect psionic manifester level. Some people, though, point at magic/psionic transparency rule and say it does. Can someone help me find a ruling on this matter? ((P.S. Yes, I've tried searching.))
The_Ditto 05-30-07, 07:51 AM	I've heard somewhere that Mage Slayer caster level penalty doesn't affect psionic manifester level. Some people, though, point at magic/psionic transparency rule and say it does. Can someone help me find a ruling on this matter? ((P.S. Yes, I've tried searching.)) I'd say due to these feats: ANTIPSIONIC MAGIC [GENERAL] Your spells are more potent when used against psionic characters and creatures. Prerequisite: Spellcraft 5 ranks. Benefit: You get a get a +2 bonus on caster level checks made to overcome a psionic creature’s power resistance. This bonus stacks with the bonus conferred by Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration. Moreover, whenever a psionic creature attempts to dispel a spell you cast, it makes its manifester level check against a DC of 13 + its manifester level. The benefits of this feat apply only to power resistance. The bonus does not apply to spell resistance. This is an exception to the psionics–magic transparency rule. Special: You cannot take or use this feat if you have the ability to use powers (if you have a power point reserve or psi-like abilities). CLOSED MIND [GENERAL] Your mind is better able to resist psionics than normal. Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all saving throws to resist powers. The benefit of this feat applies only to psionic powers and psi-like abilities. This is an exception to the psionics–magic transparency rule. Special: You cannot take or use this feat if you have the ability to use powers (if you have a power point reserve or psi-like abilities). PSIONIC HOLE [GENERAL] You are anathema to psionic creatures and characters. Prerequisite: Con 15. Benefit: When a foe strikes you in melee combat, the foe immediately loses its psionic focus, if any. Also, if you are the target of a power, the manifester of the power must spend an additional number of power points equal to your Wisdom bonus, or the power fails (all the power points spent on the power are still lost). This extra cost does not count toward the maximum power points a manifester can spend on a single power. Special: You cannot take or use this feat if you have the ability to use powers (if you have a power point reserve or psi-like abilities). ... etc ... The whole "Psionic slayer" line is already covered ... Official from Wizards? Don't know ... toss the question to cust serv ... I'm sure it'll eventually come down to your DM, really .. I know I always hate hearing that as a "cop-out" .. but in this case ... it all depends on the level of transparency your DM wants to play with .. Cheers :tiphat:
tui 05-30-07, 10:18 AM	I think the OP was wondering if the side effects of taking the Mage Slayer feat apply to a Psionics character -- meaning does their "caster level" take a hit.... Not whether the Mage Slayer benefits prevent an enemy Psionic from manifesting while threatened. I don't know squat about Psionics, so I won't even try to answer.
Feroz 05-30-07, 10:23 AM	The default rule for the interaction of psionics and magic is simple: Powers interact with spells and spells interact with powers in the same way a spell or normal spell-like ability interacts with another spell or spell-like ability. This is known as psionics-magic transparency. So the transparency equates a psionic power with a spell-like ability, so if you reduce your caster level for spell-like abilities, you reduce your manifester level as well.
The_Ditto 05-30-07, 02:24 PM	Again, I'll repeat my point ... it's going to depend on what level of transparency your DM wants to play with ... Points mentioned are all well and good ... however, as it isn't covered "clearly" in the rules (is anything psionic? :rolleyes: ), it's going to end up a DM judgement call to decide how (s)he wants to handle it in their campaign. Me, personally? I usually play with a great deal of transparency (ie Craft Universal = Craft Wondrous, Brew Potion = Scribe Tattoo, Empower Power = Empower Spell, etc ....), so would probably go with the "treat them the same" ... as Feroz pointed out ... :tiphat: