Magical Artisan [Archive] - Wizards Community

Magical Artisan [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Hapycamper
05-13-07, 02:14 PM I play in a "vanilla" campaign of D&D as a wizard who loves making magic items and such.

I was eyeing some of the nifty feats that make making magic items cheaper.

In the Eberron setting there are feats that give you a 25% discount on either time, gp, or experience cost when making any magic item. As Eberron is so much more magic-item centric (with all those artificers around, etc...) my DM has dissallowed those feats. (I don't have a problem with that either, it makes good sense.)

I might be able to use the Magical Artisan feat from the Player's Guide to Faerun. It "reduces the cost of making a specific type of magic item by 25%". I realize this only works for ONE type of item creation feat (i'd probably put it on Create Wondrous Item).

What does that mean, though "reduces the cost by 25%"? Is that 25% off all three costs? (ie. 25% less exp, 25% less time to make, and 25% less gp?) Or is it just a weaker version of the Eberron feat, rather than giving 25% off the gp cost of all magic items created it gives 25% off the cost of only one magic item creation feat...

Anyone know the official rule on this?
Gnarl
05-13-07, 03:39 PM Anyone know the official rule on this?

I don't know if it's official but we apply the 25% discount to gold, experience points and time.
Jaxgaret
05-13-07, 03:57 PM I don't know if it's official but we apply the 25% discount to gold, experience points and time.

Why time? All it says is that you pay 75% of the cost of an item; time isn't a cost - at least not in this sense.

If you look at the feat Exceptional, Extraordinary, and Legendary Artisan in the Eberron sourcebook, this becomes more clear. XP and GP are referred to as costs, but the time spent crafting the item is not.

It seems reasonable for Magical Artisan to apply a reduction to both XP and GP costs.
ikki
05-13-07, 04:16 PM time = money

and time IS derived from cost..

Just cannot help myself:
if time = money, and money = root of evil, and girls = time*money, girls= evil, I know, ancient joke,,
Jaxgaret
05-13-07, 04:18 PM and time IS derived from cost..

Right, so why stack on another 25% reduction in creation time?
Hapycamper
05-13-07, 06:30 PM For the Eberron feats, it is explicitly stated (somewhere if not in the books) that the 25% off of gp cost does not reduce the time it takes to make an item... (ie. the 3 Eberron feats don't "stack" with each other... you can't use the gp discount to make the exp 25% less and time 25% less.)

In other words, the exp cost, gp cost, and time to make are all off the _base_ cost. The discounts only change the player cost, they don't actually change the base cost.

So, anyone have an "official" reference to whether time is a "cost" for the Faerun feat?
tarkin
05-14-07, 10:46 AM Officially the Magical Artisan feat does NOT reduce either XP or time, it just reduces gold. The Sage had confirmed this in a Dungeon article back when WoTC published Dungeon. You are supposed to tell this by the fact that it does not affect the "base cost", just the cost to create.

They are seperate things, and they have a seperate feat to reduce another one of them

The feat Exceptional Artisan reduces the time, but not the xp or gold.

The feat Legendary Artisan reduces the XP, but not the time or gold.
Shadowfax7
05-14-07, 01:07 PM As Tarkin stated it is the way I have always seen it understood and played.
BugHunter
05-14-07, 08:40 PM Looking at the orginal wording in the FRCS the base price of the item would remain the same but the cost for raw materials and xp cost was reduced by 25%. This is easier to understand than the new text in the PGtF.

Using the new text raw materials and xp cost would be reduced by 25%. This is done because the item maker is more efficient with the material which means less waste. The time needed to create the item is figured off the base price.
urklore
05-14-07, 09:52 PM Is there a feat that allows a 1st level character to have a cohort (like a level 1 or 0 cohort)?
Jaxgaret
05-15-07, 12:06 AM Is there a feat that allows a 1st level character to have a cohort (like a level 1 or 0 cohort)?

What a random question to insert into this particular thread.

Anyway, here you go: Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a)
Neutronium_Dragon
05-15-07, 04:09 AM > As Eberron is so much more magic-item centric

Other than cosmetically, this isn't really true. Eberron just has a rather more coherent explanation for all of the magical items that are floating around in a by-the-book D&D game.

In any case, the Eberron feats are balanced against the core feats, so there's no reason why they'd be "overpowered" if used in a core campaign.
Hapycamper
05-15-07, 12:06 PM Officially the Magical Artisan feat does NOT reduce either XP or time, it just reduces gold. The Sage had confirmed this in a Dungeon article back when WoTC published Dungeon. You are supposed to tell this by the fact that it does not affect the "base cost", just the cost to create.

They are seperate things, and they have a seperate feat to reduce another one of them

The feat Exceptional Artisan reduces the time, but not the xp or gold.

The feat Legendary Artisan reduces the XP, but not the time or gold.

You forgot "Extraordinary Artisan" which reduces the gp cost of the raw materials but not the XP or the time.
Hapycamper
05-15-07, 12:17 PM > As Eberron is so much more magic-item centric

Other than cosmetically, this isn't really true. Eberron just has a rather more coherent explanation for all of the magical items that are floating around in a by-the-book D&D game.

In any case, the Eberron feats are balanced against the core feats, so there's no reason why they'd be "overpowered" if used in a core campaign.

Hmm, really? Perhaps I tend to play in lower-magic campaigns then, but I got the feeling that middle-class people would commonly have magic of some sort improving their life (transportation, public works, housekeeping or some such.... even all the warforged running around). I never got the impression that the middle class (merchant class?) had as much magic in more traditional D&D settings (like FR and others).

Some of those posting here seem to be confused, but there are a total of 3 improvement feats for item crafting in the Eberron setting. Each one allows for a 25% discount in either gp, xp, or time respectively and each apply to all item creation feats a character has....

There is another feat "Magical Artisan" which is what my post is about. It is in the Forgotten Realms setting and reduces the "cost" of creating magic items of ONE particular type. (ie. Magical Artisan could be taken for wand creation which would then only work on wands, for instance, while the Eberron feats would work for making wands, rings, and whatever...)

Since the FR feat only works with one item creation feat, (and, as someone else mentioned, the feats would hopefully be somewhat balanced between settings) I think it is a safe assumption that "Magical Artisan" also reduces XP cost (if not time as well...)

The whole thread gets confusing when people give replies that include incorrect references to the Eberron feats... I'm just trying to discuss and clarify the FR feat here...
Zaistars69
05-15-07, 12:35 PM You forgot "Extraordinary Artisan" which reduces the gp cost of the raw materials but not the XP or the time.

That's because he confused the magical Artisan with Extraordinary Artisan. I agree though, Magical Artisan seems to be limiting enough in that it only applies to one item creation feat that it should reduce xp and gp as they are both costs.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hapycamper 05-13-07, 02:14 PM	I play in a "vanilla" campaign of D&D as a wizard who loves making magic items and such. I was eyeing some of the nifty feats that make making magic items cheaper. In the Eberron setting there are feats that give you a 25% discount on either time, gp, or experience cost when making any magic item. As Eberron is so much more magic-item centric (with all those artificers around, etc...) my DM has dissallowed those feats. (I don't have a problem with that either, it makes good sense.) I might be able to use the Magical Artisan feat from the Player's Guide to Faerun. It "reduces the cost of making a specific type of magic item by 25%". I realize this only works for ONE type of item creation feat (i'd probably put it on Create Wondrous Item). What does that mean, though "reduces the cost by 25%"? Is that 25% off all three costs? (ie. 25% less exp, 25% less time to make, and 25% less gp?) Or is it just a weaker version of the Eberron feat, rather than giving 25% off the gp cost of all magic items created it gives 25% off the cost of only one magic item creation feat... Anyone know the official rule on this?
Gnarl 05-13-07, 03:39 PM	Anyone know the official rule on this? I don't know if it's official but we apply the 25% discount to gold, experience points and time.
Jaxgaret 05-13-07, 03:57 PM	I don't know if it's official but we apply the 25% discount to gold, experience points and time. Why time? All it says is that you pay 75% of the cost of an item; time isn't a cost - at least not in this sense. If you look at the feat Exceptional, Extraordinary, and Legendary Artisan in the Eberron sourcebook, this becomes more clear. XP and GP are referred to as costs, but the time spent crafting the item is not. It seems reasonable for Magical Artisan to apply a reduction to both XP and GP costs.
ikki 05-13-07, 04:16 PM	time = money and time IS derived from cost.. Just cannot help myself: if time = money, and money = root of evil, and girls = time*money, girls= evil, I know, ancient joke,,
Jaxgaret 05-13-07, 04:18 PM	and time IS derived from cost.. Right, so why stack on another 25% reduction in creation time?
Hapycamper 05-13-07, 06:30 PM	For the Eberron feats, it is explicitly stated (somewhere if not in the books) that the 25% off of gp cost does not reduce the time it takes to make an item... (ie. the 3 Eberron feats don't "stack" with each other... you can't use the gp discount to make the exp 25% less and time 25% less.) In other words, the exp cost, gp cost, and time to make are all off the _base_ cost. The discounts only change the player cost, they don't actually change the base cost. So, anyone have an "official" reference to whether time is a "cost" for the Faerun feat?
tarkin 05-14-07, 10:46 AM	Officially the Magical Artisan feat does NOT reduce either XP or time, it just reduces gold. The Sage had confirmed this in a Dungeon article back when WoTC published Dungeon. You are supposed to tell this by the fact that it does not affect the "base cost", just the cost to create. They are seperate things, and they have a seperate feat to reduce another one of them The feat Exceptional Artisan reduces the time, but not the xp or gold. The feat Legendary Artisan reduces the XP, but not the time or gold.
Shadowfax7 05-14-07, 01:07 PM	As Tarkin stated it is the way I have always seen it understood and played.
BugHunter 05-14-07, 08:40 PM	Looking at the orginal wording in the FRCS the base price of the item would remain the same but the cost for raw materials and xp cost was reduced by 25%. This is easier to understand than the new text in the PGtF. Using the new text raw materials and xp cost would be reduced by 25%. This is done because the item maker is more efficient with the material which means less waste. The time needed to create the item is figured off the base price.
urklore 05-14-07, 09:52 PM	Is there a feat that allows a 1st level character to have a cohort (like a level 1 or 0 cohort)?
Jaxgaret 05-15-07, 12:06 AM	Is there a feat that allows a 1st level character to have a cohort (like a level 1 or 0 cohort)? What a random question to insert into this particular thread. Anyway, here you go: Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a)
Neutronium_Dragon 05-15-07, 04:09 AM	> As Eberron is so much more magic-item centric Other than cosmetically, this isn't really true. Eberron just has a rather more coherent explanation for all of the magical items that are floating around in a by-the-book D&D game. In any case, the Eberron feats are balanced against the core feats, so there's no reason why they'd be "overpowered" if used in a core campaign.
Hapycamper 05-15-07, 12:06 PM	Officially the Magical Artisan feat does NOT reduce either XP or time, it just reduces gold. The Sage had confirmed this in a Dungeon article back when WoTC published Dungeon. You are supposed to tell this by the fact that it does not affect the "base cost", just the cost to create. They are seperate things, and they have a seperate feat to reduce another one of them The feat Exceptional Artisan reduces the time, but not the xp or gold. The feat Legendary Artisan reduces the XP, but not the time or gold. You forgot "Extraordinary Artisan" which reduces the gp cost of the raw materials but not the XP or the time.
Hapycamper 05-15-07, 12:17 PM	> As Eberron is so much more magic-item centric Other than cosmetically, this isn't really true. Eberron just has a rather more coherent explanation for all of the magical items that are floating around in a by-the-book D&D game. In any case, the Eberron feats are balanced against the core feats, so there's no reason why they'd be "overpowered" if used in a core campaign. Hmm, really? Perhaps I tend to play in lower-magic campaigns then, but I got the feeling that middle-class people would commonly have magic of some sort improving their life (transportation, public works, housekeeping or some such.... even all the warforged running around). I never got the impression that the middle class (merchant class?) had as much magic in more traditional D&D settings (like FR and others). Some of those posting here seem to be confused, but there are a total of 3 improvement feats for item crafting in the Eberron setting. Each one allows for a 25% discount in either gp, xp, or time respectively and each apply to all item creation feats a character has.... There is another feat "Magical Artisan" which is what my post is about. It is in the Forgotten Realms setting and reduces the "cost" of creating magic items of ONE particular type. (ie. Magical Artisan could be taken for wand creation which would then only work on wands, for instance, while the Eberron feats would work for making wands, rings, and whatever...) Since the FR feat only works with one item creation feat, (and, as someone else mentioned, the feats would hopefully be somewhat balanced between settings) I think it is a safe assumption that "Magical Artisan" also reduces XP cost (if not time as well...) The whole thread gets confusing when people give replies that include incorrect references to the Eberron feats... I'm just trying to discuss and clarify the FR feat here...
Zaistars69 05-15-07, 12:35 PM	You forgot "Extraordinary Artisan" which reduces the gp cost of the raw materials but not the XP or the time. That's because he confused the magical Artisan with Extraordinary Artisan. I agree though, Magical Artisan seems to be limiting enough in that it only applies to one item creation feat that it should reduce xp and gp as they are both costs.