Making a Fighter Cleric [Archive] - Wizards Community

Making a Fighter Cleric [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
krowser
03-18-08, 11:07 PM Hi

So I started playing a Fighter/Cleric, I wanted to try a dual-class and I though as a cleric I could buff myself and then whack away with a big sword.

Now I just need a few tips, were playing a Frostburn campaign.
Level 2/2 (fighter first)
Neanderthal
Stats: 18/8/16/8/13/14
Domains: War/Cold (Cold allows me to turn fire creatures)
Weapon: Full Blade (2d8 19-20x2)

Feats: Weapon Prof and Focus Full Blade, Improved Initiative, Improve Crit, Snowrunning (normal speed in snow, +5 balance on ice) and Arctic Priest (A stupid mistake)

So now, Arctic Priest is trash because it mostly gives spells I wont be able to cast for another 10 levels or so. What should I take instead?

And for spells, I need a list of good buffs.
dman11235
03-18-08, 11:23 PM You don't qualify for Imp. Crit. It requires BAB +8. I recommend Cold Endurance, as you are in a Frostfell setting. Extend spell/persist spell (CArc)/Divine Metamagic (CDiv) persist (combined with full casting, thus getting rid of those pesky fighter levels) make for a better melee. See you on the spell side!
StevenO
03-19-08, 12:13 AM Straight Cleric with the War Domain works fine for many Fighter/Cleric concepts. If you want an expanded weapon selection all you need is a single level dip into one of the Martial classes.

From what I see there may not be much "cleric" in that build if the 13 is lining up with WIS. Depending on the weapon selection desired Cleric4 only gives up that, a couple hp, and one feat vs the Ftr2/Clr2 in exchange for two more casting levels and much better REF and WILL saves. At 4th level I'd have one level in a martial class at most.
krowser
03-19-08, 12:09 PM Alright, so I guess fighter cleric isn't so good after all. I should just stick with cleric then?

Should I focus my points in Charisma or Wisdom?
dman11235
03-19-08, 12:18 PM Wisdom. Spells are really good things to have. Then a balance between charisma, strength, and con. And you can take Intuitive Attack for wis to attack instead of str. But there are ways to buff str (divine power). If your wis is more than 9 points higher than str and you are using a simple weapon, go ahead and take it. If not, just use str. Keep in mind that you will have spells as a more or less primary thing, unlike heavy optimized fighters, so your damage will not be quite as high, but it will still be nice. The issue is the fact that you are focusing on wis instead of str. Divine feats help mitigate this (CW, CD, and CChamp), and spells help mitigate this further (divine favor, divine power, righteous might: those are the basic ones), and with persist spell you can have them up all day (CD). The Touch of Healing feat (CChamp) help conserve spell slots that would otherwise be used for healing. Augment Healing also helps conserve slots, and the Radiant Servant of Pelor PrC also helps conserve slots.
krowser
03-19-08, 03:38 PM Thanks allot. That helped me clear up a few things. Our first session went well but thats because I'm using a full blade (2d8.. lame?) so I didn't really need my spells yet but I started thinking about later on and I'm going to be underpowered if I keep my guy that way.

It's just that damned point buy system... Or I'm used to having rigged stats.
StevenO
03-19-08, 04:56 PM What point buy are you using?

With PB 28 I'd probably start at STR 14, DEX 10, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 15, CHA 12 which still leaves two points to increase a 10 or 12. Some people venomously disagree but a caster can get by starting with a 15 in their casting stat as putting your level based increases into it still means you never miss a spell level.
HARLEYDUDE
03-19-08, 05:07 PM I totally agree with the other posters. Dump the fighter levels if you can. Having the war domain gives you weapon prof and focus for your gods favored weapon. Grab that and you are half way there. Then as dman said use the cleric spells as buffs. I am currently playing a 14th level cleric with the war domain. I persist divine power and rightous might every day. that gives a +14 str boost, +4 con boost, +4 AC and most importantly full BAB.

Definately the way to go.

HD
krowser
03-19-08, 10:52 PM Argh, what do I do?

My race gives my +2 str, -2 dex, +2 con, -2 int. I'm using PB 28. Now I'm not sure what I want for stats.

I could keep 1 fighter level to get a bonus feat. Or I could drop the full blade and take a Great Sword.
dman11235
03-20-08, 12:08 AM What's your deity's weapon? That's the weapon you want to use, cause that's the one you get free wp focus with. And you get free proficiency with it too. So completely get rid of fighter levels. Find a way to maximize your spell casting, and don't care about your BAB, since Divine Power gives you full BAB anyway. How many skill points do you need? Concentration maxed for one, but what else? Do you want spellcraft? Knowledge religion? Heal (at least a few ranks)? I'd say a 12 in str and con, making them 14s, a 16 in wis, and a 14 in cha. 12 in int and 8 in dex. If you need more skills you can drop cha or con by two and increase int by two. Use magic items to gain massive initiative (with 6 dex I got a +9 initiative: eager and warning on the weapon and improved initiative, if you want you can get it higher).
HARLEYDUDE
03-20-08, 01:23 PM I totally agree with dman. dump the fullblade. Go with the favoried weapon. (on a side note, who is your deity) Actually if memory serves, i believe i saw a couple of cleric spells in the spell compendium that require you to be using your deity's favored weapon anyway. ( i dont have my book here so dont quote me on that). i wouldnt worry too much about skill points since you probably have a rogue type with your party. they use the skills. do max out concentration, and put some in heal and know religion. I would recommend you go with the stats dman suggested. i am in no way an expert but that is the way i would go as well.

do you know the major enemys you are going against? (are there undead in the artic?) If so you might up the CHA for turning. EDIT: I just looked at your original post. ie. cold domain. question- Why are you turning FIRE creatures in the artic? wouldn't it be better to turn COLD creatures? Is there a fire domain?

on a second note, with a low dex you might as well go with heavy armor. I would look into a "restful crystal" (MIC). this allows you to sleep in the armor and not have a penalty. Also the nimble armor enhancment. (dmg2 i think) improves the max dex and armor check penalty.

With my cleric I didnt get any ranged weapon, so i could use the gold for other magic items. just keep a couple of ranged spells in your list. or a way to get to the flying baddie.

HD
dman11235
03-20-08, 04:05 PM There is a fire domain, but no cold domain as far as I know, unless it's in Frostburn (I haven't really looked through the spell section of it).

And screw the Restful crystal. That can be stolen. For the same amount, get Restful Armor, from Dungeonscape. Add in Durable armor while you're at it.

And I'd avoid taking a ranged weapon. At this level fliers aren't common, and by the time they are you can have Wings of Flying or better.
krowser
03-20-08, 06:03 PM The fire domain turns WATER creatures while the cold domain (Forstburn) turns FIRE creatures. (lame)

So yeah, were playing in the arctic, my brother is a big fan of undead so sooner or later were gonna find some. Now that I think about it were not gonna see any fire creatures.

So for domains, War is a must (Greatsword, I like 2 handed weapons :D ) The other, I'm not too sure since Cold is trash in an ARCTIC setting.

Our party:
Me (Tank/Healer)
Ranger (Archer)
Druid/Rogue

So I'm fine for skill points and ranged weapons.

I'm running around in a +1 Full Plate right now since my dex is trash.
Bloodsoul
03-20-08, 06:25 PM If you pick up Power Attack than Divine Might won't hurt, either (because, after all, how often will you need to turn/rebuke undead?).
HARLEYDUDE
03-20-08, 07:00 PM And for spells, I need a list of good buffs.

here is a few:
Divine Favor - gain a +1 luck bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls per three caster levels (at least +1, maximum +6).

Entopic Shield -20% miss chance vs. ranged attacks

Shield of Faith -grants the subject a +2 deflection bonus to AC, +1 to the bonus for every six levels (maximum +5 )

Magic Weapon -Gives a weapon a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls..

Sign - SC-- +4 initiative next check.

Stretch weapon - PH2--Add 5’ reach for 1 attack

Iron Silence - C Adv--No Armor check penalty for hide and move silently.

Elation - BOED--+2 moral bonus to STR and DEX +5’ speed

Magic Vestment -Armor gets enhancement bonus of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5 at 20th level).

Magic Weapon, Greater -like magic weapon, except bonus on attack and damage rolls of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5).

Knights Move - SC -Time stops for caster to move up to 30’ but must end in flanking space.

Divine Power -Your base attack bonus becomes equal to your character level (which may give you additional attacks), you gain a +6 enhancement bonus to Strength, and you gain 1 temporary hit point per caster level.

Freedom of Movement -This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell.

Righteous Might -gain a +8 size bonus to Strength and a +4 size bonus to Constitution. You gain a +4 enhancement to AC.You gain damage reduction 5/evil (if you normally channel positive energy)

hope this helps getting you started.
HD
krowser
03-20-08, 07:36 PM Pimpin' spells! Thanks!

Does deflection AC stack? Let's say if I use Prot. Evil and Shield of faith?

And also, my brother wanted to add something special for everyone so our druid has a special race (That half angel one), the ranger has +3 to one of his stats and I'm using a legacy weapon (And because I was a little too curious and I have the book I now have a curse that requires me to kill something every day or I get -4 to alot of stuff)

Now, that legacy crap is costing me 3 feats, thats one reason why I wanted fighter levels but it really goes against my cleric leveling. What should I get with my other feats, I really want to try that Persistent spell thing so... What are my options?
HARLEYDUDE
03-20-08, 08:14 PM Pimpin' spells! Thanks!

Does deflection AC stack? Let's say if I use Prot. Evil and Shield of faith?

NO the same NAMED bonus's do not stack--ever.

What should I get with my other feats, I really want to try that Persistent spell thing so... What are my options?

Well a lot of posters on here call this persistant cheese, however if your DM allows it go for Divine MetaMagic (persistant). I would suggest as your second domain, planning domain. this gives you Extend spell MetaMagic feat. it is the preq for persistant spell. (both in complete arcane) Then in complete divine, DMM. This lets you use turn attempts instead of higher level spell slots. (persist spell uses a spell 6 levels higher) So you need 7 turns for one persisted spell. The broken part of this is using night sticks from Libris Mortis book. 4 turns for 7500gp.

Many, many people on here say that this is the most broken thing ever, and many DM's wont allow it. So check with yours before you spend a lot of time planning it out.

HD
dman11235
03-20-08, 10:47 PM Night Sticks make it broken, and normally it's only broken if your DM doesn't know about a spell called Dispel Magic. Also, Divine Favor caps at a +3. And you forgot about Recitation: +3 luck to attacks, AC, saves, and Conviction (mass) for a morale bonus to saves (both SpC). I know I'm forgetting some.
HARLEYDUDE
03-21-08, 11:59 AM Night Sticks make it broken, and normally it's only broken if your DM doesn't know about a spell called Dispel Magic. Also, Divine Favor caps at a +3. And you forgot about Recitation: +3 luck to attacks, AC, saves, and Conviction (mass) for a morale bonus to saves (both SpC). I know I'm forgetting some.

yes my DM does know quite well about Dispel Magic. So I got myself a spell storing ring (with dispel in it). Can you guess what he said? "But I'm using GREATER Dispel Magic" :confused: :confused: :( It totally put me out of the fight!!! :weep: :weep: :weep:

Good additions to spells dman, yea i forgot those.
HD
krowser
03-21-08, 01:59 PM Hey I was reading up on DMM and it doesn't say you need to have to actual metamagic feat in order to get DMM for that feat.

Prerequisite: Ability to turn undead

When you choose this feat, pick a metamagic feat. (not a metamagic feat THAT YOU HAVE)

So, in this case do I need to get extend spell and persistent spell?
HARLEYDUDE
03-21-08, 02:11 PM I dont have my book in front of me, but read it again. Im almost positive you need the metamagic feat first.

I'll look tonight when i get home, and post again.
HD
krowser
03-21-08, 02:23 PM Divine Metamagic

Prerequisite: Ability to turn undead or rebuke undead.
Benefit: When you take this feat, choose a metamagic feat. This feat applies only to that metamagic feat. As a free action, you can take the energy from turning or rebuking undead and use it to apply a metamagic feat to spells that you know. You must spend one turn or rebuke attempt, plus an additional attempt for each level increase in the metamagic feat you're using. For example, Jozan the cleric could sacrifice three turn attempts to empower a holy smite he's casting. Because you're using positive or negative energy to augment your spells, the spell slot for the spell doesn't change.

Special: This feat may be taken multiple times. Each time, blablabla...

Edit: Is there a domain that adds additional turn attempts?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
krowser 03-18-08, 11:07 PM	Hi So I started playing a Fighter/Cleric, I wanted to try a dual-class and I though as a cleric I could buff myself and then whack away with a big sword. Now I just need a few tips, were playing a Frostburn campaign. Level 2/2 (fighter first) Neanderthal Stats: 18/8/16/8/13/14 Domains: War/Cold (Cold allows me to turn fire creatures) Weapon: Full Blade (2d8 19-20x2) Feats: Weapon Prof and Focus Full Blade, Improved Initiative, Improve Crit, Snowrunning (normal speed in snow, +5 balance on ice) and Arctic Priest (A stupid mistake) So now, Arctic Priest is trash because it mostly gives spells I wont be able to cast for another 10 levels or so. What should I take instead? And for spells, I need a list of good buffs.
dman11235 03-18-08, 11:23 PM	You don't qualify for Imp. Crit. It requires BAB +8. I recommend Cold Endurance, as you are in a Frostfell setting. Extend spell/persist spell (CArc)/Divine Metamagic (CDiv) persist (combined with full casting, thus getting rid of those pesky fighter levels) make for a better melee. See you on the spell side!
StevenO 03-19-08, 12:13 AM	Straight Cleric with the War Domain works fine for many Fighter/Cleric concepts. If you want an expanded weapon selection all you need is a single level dip into one of the Martial classes. From what I see there may not be much "cleric" in that build if the 13 is lining up with WIS. Depending on the weapon selection desired Cleric4 only gives up that, a couple hp, and one feat vs the Ftr2/Clr2 in exchange for two more casting levels and much better REF and WILL saves. At 4th level I'd have one level in a martial class at most.
krowser 03-19-08, 12:09 PM	Alright, so I guess fighter cleric isn't so good after all. I should just stick with cleric then? Should I focus my points in Charisma or Wisdom?
dman11235 03-19-08, 12:18 PM	Wisdom. Spells are really good things to have. Then a balance between charisma, strength, and con. And you can take Intuitive Attack for wis to attack instead of str. But there are ways to buff str (divine power). If your wis is more than 9 points higher than str and you are using a simple weapon, go ahead and take it. If not, just use str. Keep in mind that you will have spells as a more or less primary thing, unlike heavy optimized fighters, so your damage will not be quite as high, but it will still be nice. The issue is the fact that you are focusing on wis instead of str. Divine feats help mitigate this (CW, CD, and CChamp), and spells help mitigate this further (divine favor, divine power, righteous might: those are the basic ones), and with persist spell you can have them up all day (CD). The Touch of Healing feat (CChamp) help conserve spell slots that would otherwise be used for healing. Augment Healing also helps conserve slots, and the Radiant Servant of Pelor PrC also helps conserve slots.
krowser 03-19-08, 03:38 PM	Thanks allot. That helped me clear up a few things. Our first session went well but thats because I'm using a full blade (2d8.. lame?) so I didn't really need my spells yet but I started thinking about later on and I'm going to be underpowered if I keep my guy that way. It's just that damned point buy system... Or I'm used to having rigged stats.
StevenO 03-19-08, 04:56 PM	What point buy are you using? With PB 28 I'd probably start at STR 14, DEX 10, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 15, CHA 12 which still leaves two points to increase a 10 or 12. Some people venomously disagree but a caster can get by starting with a 15 in their casting stat as putting your level based increases into it still means you never miss a spell level.
HARLEYDUDE 03-19-08, 05:07 PM	I totally agree with the other posters. Dump the fighter levels if you can. Having the war domain gives you weapon prof and focus for your gods favored weapon. Grab that and you are half way there. Then as dman said use the cleric spells as buffs. I am currently playing a 14th level cleric with the war domain. I persist divine power and rightous might every day. that gives a +14 str boost, +4 con boost, +4 AC and most importantly full BAB. Definately the way to go. HD
krowser 03-19-08, 10:52 PM	Argh, what do I do? My race gives my +2 str, -2 dex, +2 con, -2 int. I'm using PB 28. Now I'm not sure what I want for stats. I could keep 1 fighter level to get a bonus feat. Or I could drop the full blade and take a Great Sword.
dman11235 03-20-08, 12:08 AM	What's your deity's weapon? That's the weapon you want to use, cause that's the one you get free wp focus with. And you get free proficiency with it too. So completely get rid of fighter levels. Find a way to maximize your spell casting, and don't care about your BAB, since Divine Power gives you full BAB anyway. How many skill points do you need? Concentration maxed for one, but what else? Do you want spellcraft? Knowledge religion? Heal (at least a few ranks)? I'd say a 12 in str and con, making them 14s, a 16 in wis, and a 14 in cha. 12 in int and 8 in dex. If you need more skills you can drop cha or con by two and increase int by two. Use magic items to gain massive initiative (with 6 dex I got a +9 initiative: eager and warning on the weapon and improved initiative, if you want you can get it higher).
HARLEYDUDE 03-20-08, 01:23 PM	I totally agree with dman. dump the fullblade. Go with the favoried weapon. (on a side note, who is your deity) Actually if memory serves, i believe i saw a couple of cleric spells in the spell compendium that require you to be using your deity's favored weapon anyway. ( i dont have my book here so dont quote me on that). i wouldnt worry too much about skill points since you probably have a rogue type with your party. they use the skills. do max out concentration, and put some in heal and know religion. I would recommend you go with the stats dman suggested. i am in no way an expert but that is the way i would go as well. do you know the major enemys you are going against? (are there undead in the artic?) If so you might up the CHA for turning. EDIT: I just looked at your original post. ie. cold domain. question- Why are you turning FIRE creatures in the artic? wouldn't it be better to turn COLD creatures? Is there a fire domain? on a second note, with a low dex you might as well go with heavy armor. I would look into a "restful crystal" (MIC). this allows you to sleep in the armor and not have a penalty. Also the nimble armor enhancment. (dmg2 i think) improves the max dex and armor check penalty. With my cleric I didnt get any ranged weapon, so i could use the gold for other magic items. just keep a couple of ranged spells in your list. or a way to get to the flying baddie. HD
dman11235 03-20-08, 04:05 PM	There is a fire domain, but no cold domain as far as I know, unless it's in Frostburn (I haven't really looked through the spell section of it). And screw the Restful crystal. That can be stolen. For the same amount, get Restful Armor, from Dungeonscape. Add in Durable armor while you're at it. And I'd avoid taking a ranged weapon. At this level fliers aren't common, and by the time they are you can have Wings of Flying or better.
krowser 03-20-08, 06:03 PM	The fire domain turns WATER creatures while the cold domain (Forstburn) turns FIRE creatures. (lame) So yeah, were playing in the arctic, my brother is a big fan of undead so sooner or later were gonna find some. Now that I think about it were not gonna see any fire creatures. So for domains, War is a must (Greatsword, I like 2 handed weapons :D ) The other, I'm not too sure since Cold is trash in an ARCTIC setting. Our party: Me (Tank/Healer) Ranger (Archer) Druid/Rogue So I'm fine for skill points and ranged weapons. I'm running around in a +1 Full Plate right now since my dex is trash.
Bloodsoul 03-20-08, 06:25 PM	If you pick up Power Attack than Divine Might won't hurt, either (because, after all, how often will you need to turn/rebuke undead?).
HARLEYDUDE 03-20-08, 07:00 PM	And for spells, I need a list of good buffs. here is a few: Divine Favor - gain a +1 luck bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls per three caster levels (at least +1, maximum +6). Entopic Shield -20% miss chance vs. ranged attacks Shield of Faith -grants the subject a +2 deflection bonus to AC, +1 to the bonus for every six levels (maximum +5 ) Magic Weapon -Gives a weapon a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls.. Sign - SC-- +4 initiative next check. Stretch weapon - PH2--Add 5’ reach for 1 attack Iron Silence - C Adv--No Armor check penalty for hide and move silently. Elation - BOED--+2 moral bonus to STR and DEX +5’ speed Magic Vestment -Armor gets enhancement bonus of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5 at 20th level). Magic Weapon, Greater -like magic weapon, except bonus on attack and damage rolls of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5). Knights Move - SC -Time stops for caster to move up to 30’ but must end in flanking space. Divine Power -Your base attack bonus becomes equal to your character level (which may give you additional attacks), you gain a +6 enhancement bonus to Strength, and you gain 1 temporary hit point per caster level. Freedom of Movement -This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell. Righteous Might -gain a +8 size bonus to Strength and a +4 size bonus to Constitution. You gain a +4 enhancement to AC.You gain damage reduction 5/evil (if you normally channel positive energy) hope this helps getting you started. HD
krowser 03-20-08, 07:36 PM	Pimpin' spells! Thanks! Does deflection AC stack? Let's say if I use Prot. Evil and Shield of faith? And also, my brother wanted to add something special for everyone so our druid has a special race (That half angel one), the ranger has +3 to one of his stats and I'm using a legacy weapon (And because I was a little too curious and I have the book I now have a curse that requires me to kill something every day or I get -4 to alot of stuff) Now, that legacy crap is costing me 3 feats, thats one reason why I wanted fighter levels but it really goes against my cleric leveling. What should I get with my other feats, I really want to try that Persistent spell thing so... What are my options?
HARLEYDUDE 03-20-08, 08:14 PM	Pimpin' spells! Thanks! Does deflection AC stack? Let's say if I use Prot. Evil and Shield of faith? NO the same NAMED bonus's do not stack--ever. What should I get with my other feats, I really want to try that Persistent spell thing so... What are my options? Well a lot of posters on here call this persistant cheese, however if your DM allows it go for Divine MetaMagic (persistant). I would suggest as your second domain, planning domain. this gives you Extend spell MetaMagic feat. it is the preq for persistant spell. (both in complete arcane) Then in complete divine, DMM. This lets you use turn attempts instead of higher level spell slots. (persist spell uses a spell 6 levels higher) So you need 7 turns for one persisted spell. The broken part of this is using night sticks from Libris Mortis book. 4 turns for 7500gp. Many, many people on here say that this is the most broken thing ever, and many DM's wont allow it. So check with yours before you spend a lot of time planning it out. HD
dman11235 03-20-08, 10:47 PM	Night Sticks make it broken, and normally it's only broken if your DM doesn't know about a spell called Dispel Magic. Also, Divine Favor caps at a +3. And you forgot about Recitation: +3 luck to attacks, AC, saves, and Conviction (mass) for a morale bonus to saves (both SpC). I know I'm forgetting some.
HARLEYDUDE 03-21-08, 11:59 AM	Night Sticks make it broken, and normally it's only broken if your DM doesn't know about a spell called Dispel Magic. Also, Divine Favor caps at a +3. And you forgot about Recitation: +3 luck to attacks, AC, saves, and Conviction (mass) for a morale bonus to saves (both SpC). I know I'm forgetting some. yes my DM does know quite well about Dispel Magic. So I got myself a spell storing ring (with dispel in it). Can you guess what he said? "But I'm using GREATER Dispel Magic" :confused: :confused: :( It totally put me out of the fight!!! :weep: :weep: :weep: Good additions to spells dman, yea i forgot those. HD
krowser 03-21-08, 01:59 PM	Hey I was reading up on DMM and it doesn't say you need to have to actual metamagic feat in order to get DMM for that feat. Prerequisite: Ability to turn undead When you choose this feat, pick a metamagic feat. (not a metamagic feat THAT YOU HAVE) So, in this case do I need to get extend spell and persistent spell?
HARLEYDUDE 03-21-08, 02:11 PM	I dont have my book in front of me, but read it again. Im almost positive you need the metamagic feat first. I'll look tonight when i get home, and post again. HD
krowser 03-21-08, 02:23 PM	Divine Metamagic Prerequisite: Ability to turn undead or rebuke undead. Benefit: When you take this feat, choose a metamagic feat. This feat applies only to that metamagic feat. As a free action, you can take the energy from turning or rebuking undead and use it to apply a metamagic feat to spells that you know. You must spend one turn or rebuke attempt, plus an additional attempt for each level increase in the metamagic feat you're using. For example, Jozan the cleric could sacrifice three turn attempts to empower a holy smite he's casting. Because you're using positive or negative energy to augment your spells, the spell slot for the spell doesn't change. Special: This feat may be taken multiple times. Each time, blablabla... Edit: Is there a domain that adds additional turn attempts?