Making Knowledge niftier for Rangers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Making Knowledge niftier for Rangers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Aryxbez
03-17-07, 12:20 PM I was thinking of making a houserule for rangers to add
to their Favored enemy. That for every 5 ranks in knowledge
they have that is particular to their favored foe get increase
by +2.

So If ranger chose Abberations as favored enemy
and has 5 ranks in Knowledge(Dungeoneering) he would
have additional +2 to everything he gets from favored enemy
making it a +4 against that foe.

Also to make the knowledge a class skill in their favored enemy.
so it would be possible that a ranger could have knowledge
the planes.

So what do you think?
Moccanime
03-17-07, 02:00 PM It's a good idea but I think it might get abused.
15 ranks in Knowledge(Dungeoneering) would give a bonus equal to 3x weapon specialization on damage.
Maybe only let the increase only happen once like synergy bonuses (more than once if you get into epic levels of course).
Krusk
03-17-07, 02:46 PM Here is an idea a couple of people on the boards came up with a little bit back.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=777227

very similar.

yours seems like it could easily be pumped into high bonus. I would suggest an additional +1 instead of +2.
Ventilatory_Threshold
03-17-07, 03:17 PM I would suggest using the two variants together, but with this one modified. As soon as the Ranger has five ranks in the pertaining skill, he gains a one-time +2 synergy bonus to his Favored Enemy ability against that enemy. I'd also suggest adding the related Knowledge skill to his class skill list as soon as he makes than enemy a Favored Enemy.

Let's say Diego the Ranger chooses Undead at first level. He gains Knowledge (Religion) as a class skill and can put ranks in it just like any other class skill. At second level he puts his fifth rank in it, so he gains a +2 to his Favored Enemy (Undead) class feature. Let's say Diego chooses Evil Outsiders at fifth level and increases his bonus against Undead by +2 (making it +6). He then gains Knowledge (the Planes) as a class skill and can immediately gain class skill ranks in it. Diego knew he was going this way at first level, so he bought ranks in it as a cross-class skill. This means he currently has 3 (1/2) ranks in it. Diego puts two ranks in the skill and immediately gains an extra +2 against Evil Outsiders (making the bonus +4).

What I'm thinking is that this gives the Ranger a bit more combat prowess at the cost of having to buy a lot of ranks in Knowledge skills. I'd also rule that the Ranger loses all Knowledge skills off his class skill list.
BW0222
03-17-07, 04:52 PM Aryxbez,

So what do you think?

It is unneccesary. The DM sets the DCs and this may vary from PC to PC (or NPC to NPC) based on things such as backgrounds, classes, races, etc.

For example, knowing that an ancient elven community once lived in a forest might be a DC 15 knowledge history check for humans and only a DC 10 knowledge history check for elves from this area.

If you wanted to know a description of the daughter of the ruler of a kingdom, maybe that is a DC 25 knowledge nobility check. That again, if your background was that you were a servant at the kings castle, maybe only DC 15 for you. Chance are you met someone and talked about her or saw her from a distance. If your background is that you are the cousin of the king, the DC could easily be 5 or even 0 -- you just have to remember the last time you had a family dinner. Some folks might easily get away just taking a 10 on an intelligence check.

If a ranger has favored enemy, chances are they have some type of background which means they likely know more about that type of creature. You can easily adjust the DCs down 5 or even 10. For example, if an ranger creates a background where he hates abberations because some ankhegs slaughtered his family and he spent years helping his uncle drive them off his farm... I think he can identify an ankheg and knows about them. i.e. lower the DCs by 5 or 10. It may not apply to all abberations, but those covered in his background, should have a lower DC than others.
Aryxbez
03-17-07, 10:04 PM I am choosing to keep it this way because it is no way
going to be broken. Because martial adepts will easily
overpower a ranger, they can deal way more damage than
a ranger could even dream of dealing.
Also this only applies to those specific creatures, so those
bonuses are useless if they fight something other than their
favored foe. Besides the most is +14 skills and damage
against a favored enemy and that is at 17th level so that
I am sure is barely powerful and Not even close to the power
of what a martial adept can do.

Also I am the DM and I do like TOB.
Ventilatory_Threshold
03-27-07, 06:59 AM Bump!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aryxbez 03-17-07, 12:20 PM	I was thinking of making a houserule for rangers to add to their Favored enemy. That for every 5 ranks in knowledge they have that is particular to their favored foe get increase by +2. So If ranger chose Abberations as favored enemy and has 5 ranks in Knowledge(Dungeoneering) he would have additional +2 to everything he gets from favored enemy making it a +4 against that foe. Also to make the knowledge a class skill in their favored enemy. so it would be possible that a ranger could have knowledge the planes. So what do you think?
Moccanime 03-17-07, 02:00 PM	It's a good idea but I think it might get abused. 15 ranks in Knowledge(Dungeoneering) would give a bonus equal to 3x weapon specialization on damage. Maybe only let the increase only happen once like synergy bonuses (more than once if you get into epic levels of course).
Krusk 03-17-07, 02:46 PM	Here is an idea a couple of people on the boards came up with a little bit back. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=777227 very similar. yours seems like it could easily be pumped into high bonus. I would suggest an additional +1 instead of +2.
Ventilatory_Threshold 03-17-07, 03:17 PM	I would suggest using the two variants together, but with this one modified. As soon as the Ranger has five ranks in the pertaining skill, he gains a one-time +2 synergy bonus to his Favored Enemy ability against that enemy. I'd also suggest adding the related Knowledge skill to his class skill list as soon as he makes than enemy a Favored Enemy. Let's say Diego the Ranger chooses Undead at first level. He gains Knowledge (Religion) as a class skill and can put ranks in it just like any other class skill. At second level he puts his fifth rank in it, so he gains a +2 to his Favored Enemy (Undead) class feature. Let's say Diego chooses Evil Outsiders at fifth level and increases his bonus against Undead by +2 (making it +6). He then gains Knowledge (the Planes) as a class skill and can immediately gain class skill ranks in it. Diego knew he was going this way at first level, so he bought ranks in it as a cross-class skill. This means he currently has 3 (1/2) ranks in it. Diego puts two ranks in the skill and immediately gains an extra +2 against Evil Outsiders (making the bonus +4). What I'm thinking is that this gives the Ranger a bit more combat prowess at the cost of having to buy a lot of ranks in Knowledge skills. I'd also rule that the Ranger loses all Knowledge skills off his class skill list.
BW0222 03-17-07, 04:52 PM	Aryxbez, So what do you think? It is unneccesary. The DM sets the DCs and this may vary from PC to PC (or NPC to NPC) based on things such as backgrounds, classes, races, etc. For example, knowing that an ancient elven community once lived in a forest might be a DC 15 knowledge history check for humans and only a DC 10 knowledge history check for elves from this area. If you wanted to know a description of the daughter of the ruler of a kingdom, maybe that is a DC 25 knowledge nobility check. That again, if your background was that you were a servant at the kings castle, maybe only DC 15 for you. Chance are you met someone and talked about her or saw her from a distance. If your background is that you are the cousin of the king, the DC could easily be 5 or even 0 -- you just have to remember the last time you had a family dinner. Some folks might easily get away just taking a 10 on an intelligence check. If a ranger has favored enemy, chances are they have some type of background which means they likely know more about that type of creature. You can easily adjust the DCs down 5 or even 10. For example, if an ranger creates a background where he hates abberations because some ankhegs slaughtered his family and he spent years helping his uncle drive them off his farm... I think he can identify an ankheg and knows about them. i.e. lower the DCs by 5 or 10. It may not apply to all abberations, but those covered in his background, should have a lower DC than others.
Aryxbez 03-17-07, 10:04 PM	I am choosing to keep it this way because it is no way going to be broken. Because martial adepts will easily overpower a ranger, they can deal way more damage than a ranger could even dream of dealing. Also this only applies to those specific creatures, so those bonuses are useless if they fight something other than their favored foe. Besides the most is +14 skills and damage against a favored enemy and that is at 17th level so that I am sure is barely powerful and Not even close to the power of what a martial adept can do. Also I am the DM and I do like TOB.
Ventilatory_Threshold 03-27-07, 06:59 AM	Bump!