Making your opponent flat-footed? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Making your opponent flat-footed? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
noheat
03-14-08, 12:53 AM I was looking for all (or as many as I can get) the ways to make your opponent flat-footed. Some of the ways I know of are...

Act first at the start of combat
Sapphire Nightmare Blade (Maneuver from ToB pg 65)
Acrobatic Backstab (Skill Trick from CS ph 84)
Blur Stirke weapon enhancement

Can anyone think of a few more?
Neutronium_Dragon
03-14-08, 03:02 AM Strike of the Broken Shield (Setting Sun 4 strike) would also work, though usually someone else would have to use it on the subject for you to benefit.
RellenMarn
03-14-08, 03:27 AM Well first off why do you want your opponent to be flat-footed? Do you simply want sneak attack? If so flanking is probably the simplest method.

In the same vein you can feint, or better yet feint using flick of the wrist, or the Invisible Blade's feinting ability.

I also like the Stone Lord's ability to create an image of an earth elemental which will flank for you as a free action your level in Stone Lord times per day - albeit only for a round.

I cannot think of any other real purpose for getting something flat-footed, other than the AC reduction, so I am curious.

Hope that helps.
noheat
03-14-08, 12:47 PM I was looking for the flat-footed status to get a Iaijutsu focus strike off. I should have remembered about feint.

Thanks for all the help so far.
1 ton ghost
03-14-08, 01:49 PM a great many of these don't render you Flat-footed. that is, Feint and the like rob the victim of their Dex bonus to AC, thusly, they are elligible for Sneak Attack, Sudden Strike and the like. the 2 conditions are similar to be sure, but different and must be noted.

Flat-Footed means you've lost your Dex bonus, true, but you've also lost your threat box, no AoO's, etc.
Dex loss means just that, Dex loss...to AC. that's it. you can still make AoO's, threaten w/ melee weapons, etc.

-Grappling: will leave you Flat-Footed to anyone outside the grapple.
-Balancing w/ less the 5 ranks and/or Climbing i think as well, maybe they just deny your Dex to AC. can't remember which (no PHB @ work here, sorry)
-Flanking : target is not considered Flat-Footed. +2 Attack, that's it.
-Grease spell
-Blinding opponent
Kalis Atrud
03-14-08, 02:01 PM Feint won't help with a Iaijutsu strike. It just causes dex modifier loss to AC, not flat-footedness. What you want is the Gloom Razor Tactical Feat. Any time you move atleast 10 feet and deal melee damage, your opponent is flat-footed in the next round(so you do it again).
foxtail
03-14-08, 02:56 PM The spell distract assailant from the Spell Compendium serves that purpose, IIRC.
noheat
03-14-08, 03:37 PM Feint won't help with a Iaijutsu strike. It just causes dex modifier loss to AC, not flat-footedness. What you want is the Gloom Razor Tactical Feat. Any time you move atleast 10 feet and deal melee damage, your opponent is flat-footed in the next round(so you do it again).

Alas you are correct. I thought it made them flat-footed, but the more I thought about it I started to doubt. So I finally looked it up and feint does not help.

So far my Iaijutsu build will probably use the Sapphire Nightmare Blade and/or the Acrobatic Backstab to make his opponent flat-footed. Maybe later get the blur strike enhancement on my Katana.

Thanks for all the help everyone and if there's anything that pops up I'll keep checking.
InkBlot
03-16-08, 05:17 PM -Balancing w/ less the 5 ranks and/or Climbing i think as well, maybe they just deny your Dex to AC. can't remember which (no PHB @ work here, sorry)
You are considered flat-footed while balancing, without 5 ranks in balance. This is what makes the
Grease spell
so good.
mplindustries
03-16-08, 10:20 PM The Surprising Riposte feat from Drow of the Underdark. It doesn't really help the guy who uses it get Iaijitsu Focus off, but it does make them flat-footed.
Operation_Shoestring
03-17-08, 02:11 AM Grease. Surprisingly few enemies have 5 ranks in balance.
Egres
03-17-08, 04:34 AM Grappling: will leave you Flat-Footed to anyone outside the grapple.
Actually it will cause you to only lose your Dex bonus against non grappling opponents.

Blinding opponent
Idem.

Anyway, if you need your opponent to be flat footed try also the Raptor School feat in the CW.
Tordak
03-17-08, 12:27 PM Right. Raptor school is one way, and probably one of the only way that will work all time (or have a chance of working in every situations). Low Blow and Imporved Low Blow (it's in one of the Forgotten Realm books, try player's guide to Fearun but I'm not sure) will work against foe 1 size category larger than you. Flick of wirst (CA) and Mercurial strikes (Dragon Compendium) will allow you to do it also, but I think only once per fight.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
noheat 03-14-08, 12:53 AM	I was looking for all (or as many as I can get) the ways to make your opponent flat-footed. Some of the ways I know of are... Act first at the start of combat Sapphire Nightmare Blade (Maneuver from ToB pg 65) Acrobatic Backstab (Skill Trick from CS ph 84) Blur Stirke weapon enhancement Can anyone think of a few more?
Neutronium_Dragon 03-14-08, 03:02 AM	Strike of the Broken Shield (Setting Sun 4 strike) would also work, though usually someone else would have to use it on the subject for you to benefit.
RellenMarn 03-14-08, 03:27 AM	Well first off why do you want your opponent to be flat-footed? Do you simply want sneak attack? If so flanking is probably the simplest method. In the same vein you can feint, or better yet feint using flick of the wrist, or the Invisible Blade's feinting ability. I also like the Stone Lord's ability to create an image of an earth elemental which will flank for you as a free action your level in Stone Lord times per day - albeit only for a round. I cannot think of any other real purpose for getting something flat-footed, other than the AC reduction, so I am curious. Hope that helps.
noheat 03-14-08, 12:47 PM	I was looking for the flat-footed status to get a Iaijutsu focus strike off. I should have remembered about feint. Thanks for all the help so far.
1 ton ghost 03-14-08, 01:49 PM	a great many of these don't render you Flat-footed. that is, Feint and the like rob the victim of their Dex bonus to AC, thusly, they are elligible for Sneak Attack, Sudden Strike and the like. the 2 conditions are similar to be sure, but different and must be noted. Flat-Footed means you've lost your Dex bonus, true, but you've also lost your threat box, no AoO's, etc. Dex loss means just that, Dex loss...to AC. that's it. you can still make AoO's, threaten w/ melee weapons, etc. -Grappling: will leave you Flat-Footed to anyone outside the grapple. -Balancing w/ less the 5 ranks and/or Climbing i think as well, maybe they just deny your Dex to AC. can't remember which (no PHB @ work here, sorry) -Flanking : target is not considered Flat-Footed. +2 Attack, that's it. -Grease spell -Blinding opponent
Kalis Atrud 03-14-08, 02:01 PM	Feint won't help with a Iaijutsu strike. It just causes dex modifier loss to AC, not flat-footedness. What you want is the Gloom Razor Tactical Feat. Any time you move atleast 10 feet and deal melee damage, your opponent is flat-footed in the next round(so you do it again).
foxtail 03-14-08, 02:56 PM	The spell distract assailant from the Spell Compendium serves that purpose, IIRC.
noheat 03-14-08, 03:37 PM	Feint won't help with a Iaijutsu strike. It just causes dex modifier loss to AC, not flat-footedness. What you want is the Gloom Razor Tactical Feat. Any time you move atleast 10 feet and deal melee damage, your opponent is flat-footed in the next round(so you do it again). Alas you are correct. I thought it made them flat-footed, but the more I thought about it I started to doubt. So I finally looked it up and feint does not help. So far my Iaijutsu build will probably use the Sapphire Nightmare Blade and/or the Acrobatic Backstab to make his opponent flat-footed. Maybe later get the blur strike enhancement on my Katana. Thanks for all the help everyone and if there's anything that pops up I'll keep checking.
InkBlot 03-16-08, 05:17 PM	-Balancing w/ less the 5 ranks and/or Climbing i think as well, maybe they just deny your Dex to AC. can't remember which (no PHB @ work here, sorry) You are considered flat-footed while balancing, without 5 ranks in balance. This is what makes the Grease spell so good.
mplindustries 03-16-08, 10:20 PM	The Surprising Riposte feat from Drow of the Underdark. It doesn't really help the guy who uses it get Iaijitsu Focus off, but it does make them flat-footed.
Operation_Shoestring 03-17-08, 02:11 AM	Grease. Surprisingly few enemies have 5 ranks in balance.
Egres 03-17-08, 04:34 AM	Grappling: will leave you Flat-Footed to anyone outside the grapple. Actually it will cause you to only lose your Dex bonus against non grappling opponents. Blinding opponent Idem. Anyway, if you need your opponent to be flat footed try also the Raptor School feat in the CW.
Tordak 03-17-08, 12:27 PM	Right. Raptor school is one way, and probably one of the only way that will work all time (or have a chance of working in every situations). Low Blow and Imporved Low Blow (it's in one of the Forgotten Realm books, try player's guide to Fearun but I'm not sure) will work against foe 1 size category larger than you. Flick of wirst (CA) and Mercurial strikes (Dragon Compendium) will allow you to do it also, but I think only once per fight.