Marshal Feat/Skill Selection [Archive] - Wizards Community

Marshal Feat/Skill Selection [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ghalleon
08-09-07, 08:29 PM I'm looking for a way to make my marshal good at being that, the marshal. I don't need any game-breaking things, just something to make him good at what he does as a marshal.
StruckingFuggle
08-09-07, 10:46 PM I'm not trying to optimize out the Marshal, but the character story I've come up with leads me to want to play the Marshal, and I was just wondered if anyone here at skills and feats had an idea what skills I should keep maxed, along with what would be good or great feats for the Marshal.

I'm not trying to optimize out the Marshal, but the character story I've come up with leads me to want to play the Marshal, and I was just wondered if anyone here at skills and feats had an idea what skills I should keep maxed, along with what would be good or great feats for the Marshal.

You do realize there's a blatant contradiction here, right?

... if not, well let's see. Craft (Basketweaving) and Skill Focus (Basketweaving) are pretty good to take ... Oh, and Speak Language! Cross class, sure, but then you can give orders in any sort of language. Hrm ... Deflect Arrows is good, because getting shot sucks. Oh! And Exotic Weapon Proficiency, because warlords and the like always have some sort of fancy strange glowing exotic weapon.
Ghalleon
08-09-07, 10:51 PM Well despite the contradiction that may have been there, you took me the wrong way. Optimizing for me is basically breaking the character, it's all I've encountered and well I haven't enjoyed it. I'm merely looking to play a marshal wondering what skills/feats are the ones to look at for the class.

Things like leadership, keeping diplomacy and sense motive maxed those skills and feats that fit the marshal flavor, not necessarily causing him to be optimized or broken by any means of the word.
StruckingFuggle
08-09-07, 11:07 PM Ugh. Sorry. Bad day. I knew full well what you meant, I just disagree with your usage of the word optimization.

Besides, literally, if you don't want optimal suggestions, you are asking for second-tier or worse suggestions. If you wanna be good at something, ask for how to be good at it. Instead of saying you "don't want optimization", try qualifying it with 'practical', like, "how would I practically optimize a marshal" (such that he's good at what he does, but doesn't break the game). :)
Ghalleon
08-09-07, 11:10 PM Well what would be suggestions for a practically optimized but not game-breaking marshal (Though i don't think the marshal is game-breaking by any means.) I'll also edit out the first post so that we don't have this miscommunication from another user. I also don't mean to misuse optimization, since it and breaking the game are different things, but really that's all I've dealt with since I don't spend much time other than at the CO boards browsing.

Finally was able to break from the habit of breaking characters and I also decided to start looking around the other sections to see what everything else had.
FponkDamn
08-10-07, 09:08 AM It seems as though the Marshall has some really fun skills, and they're good enough to be useful in a party. I almost like them better as the "fifth man" than the Bard, because even without the spellcasting, they have amazing beef abilities.

My suggestions? Forget the physical stats. Despite their martial appearance, it's obvious that you're not going to be a frontliner with a medium BAB and a d8 hit die, so don't worry about Str and Dex much. Cha and Int are where it's at for you. You want skill points galore, so Human probably isn't a bad choice either (and honestly, humans are one of the few races I can see Marshall-ing for a mixed group. A dwarf might lead other dwarves, but your standard adventuring party is just going to want a human leader). Sense Motive is key - you need to be the deciding voice in many situations, and you can't be that if you're easily duped. The "big three" charisma skills are important as well (Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate) and you'll be very, very good at them with your main stat in Charisma. With all the synergy bonuses you can get on Diplomacy, plus your free Skill Focus in it, plus the fact that one of your minor auras lets you add your Cha to those skills twice? Be prepared for +20s or better, even at low levels.

And that's not even with cheezy optimizing - that's just what you're going to have.

As for Feat Selections, one of the first that struck me was Knowledge Devotion from Complete Champion. It lets you gain a bonus to attack and damage (up to +5) against any foe based on the result of your knowledge check to identify that foe. Since a Marshall gets all Knowledges as class skills (and should certainly be well-read about opponents his armies might face!), you could use this feat to even the odds when you are forced into melee, balancing out the fact that you won't be very strong. Plus, knowing your foes' weaknesses should be what you're after, anyway.

Other feats you'll want include the following:

- Anything that ups your AC. Dodge and Mobility might not be bad choices for you - you may need to move around a bit to keep allies in range of your Auras, and it's important you not drop during a fight. On that same note, things that increase your general survivability are at a premium (hit point/con boosters, miss chance generators, whatever you can get.)

- Feats that affect your ability to Flank. Tactics are key for you, and flanking is one of the most basic (and most oft-used). During battle, you should often be using your Master of Tactics aura (your Cha bonus to all allies flanking damage rolls!) because it's so good, and therefore you'll want your allies to be able to use it. So things like Adaptable Flanker and Vexing Flanker are great.

- The "Special Maneuver" feats (Improved Trip, Disarm, Sunder, or what have you). You probably won't be doing much damage, but if you have to fight, having a good way to contribute is very nice. One of the minor auras lets you add your cha bonus to these rolls, so you can easily be very good at, say, tripping an opponent.

- Mounted Combat and friends. Three Awesomes: 1, it's harder to kill you when you're mounted. 2, being mounted makes you an effective fighter even if you're not too strong. 3, you'll look awesome leading a battlefield charge from the back of your badass horse. Not to mention the added mobility.

These sorts of feats will generally help you be the "tactical master" in any given situation.

Good Gear selections:

- A Tower Shield. You may very well spend numerous rounds in a given combat not fighting. You might as well give yourself total cover while you do so, since it doesn't affect your ability to use Auras or grant move actions. Plus, this makes you more likely to survive round-to-round, which as we discussed is important. All those auras and leadership abilities are going to make you a huge target, so you want to neutralize that as much as you can.

- A whip. Now, this has some interesting flavor connotations: Are you a good marshall or a bad one? A good marshall could use a whip to trip opponents or aid another (something you should consider doing often) from a distance, and combined with Improved Trip and the trip-helping aura, you'd be mighty good at it. But! Even better, an evil Marshall might enjoy whipping his own troops into a frenzy...

- Aura-upping magic items. There are a few in the MIC, including one set geared towards Marshalls. I seem to remember it being pretty good (don't have it in front of me) so you should check it out.

You could also consider (as either feats or gained through multiclassing) maneuvers from the White Raven Discipline (from ToB) as they compliment the Marhsall quite well. A few levels in Swordsage and the Adaptable Style feat as a splash would give you several awesome things to do as standard actions instead of just hacking at the enemy alongside the fighter. Having something to do every round is important!

Well, that seems like enough from me. Enjoy, and good luck playing what sounds like an awesome and fun class!

- Johnny
Tolby
08-10-07, 01:52 PM If your Marshell tends to lead from the rear I would suggest Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot. Use a bow in combat to aid your troops. There are numerous feats that utilize the "aid another" under certain situations and a Feat thats gives +4 to hit for flanking instead of standard +2.

Communication with other players will be essential. Knowing what type of chracter they plan on running. Will they all be performing fancy battlefield manuavers? or will they mainly be casters? knowing this can help you make effective choices for the marshal.
Skills Sense Motive would be a good skill as well as Diplomacy. I would also consider tumble to be able to move around the battlefield. Pick up Mithril armor to minize the ACP.
Thurbane
08-10-07, 03:06 PM If your Marshal intends to do any front line fighting, I highly recommend Combat Expertise, Improved Trip and Improved Disarm.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ghalleon 08-09-07, 08:29 PM	I'm looking for a way to make my marshal good at being that, the marshal. I don't need any game-breaking things, just something to make him good at what he does as a marshal.
StruckingFuggle 08-09-07, 10:46 PM	I'm not trying to optimize out the Marshal, but the character story I've come up with leads me to want to play the Marshal, and I was just wondered if anyone here at skills and feats had an idea what skills I should keep maxed, along with what would be good or great feats for the Marshal. I'm not trying to optimize out the Marshal, but the character story I've come up with leads me to want to play the Marshal, and I was just wondered if anyone here at skills and feats had an idea what skills I should keep maxed, along with what would be good or great feats for the Marshal. You do realize there's a blatant contradiction here, right? ... if not, well let's see. Craft (Basketweaving) and Skill Focus (Basketweaving) are pretty good to take ... Oh, and Speak Language! Cross class, sure, but then you can give orders in any sort of language. Hrm ... Deflect Arrows is good, because getting shot sucks. Oh! And Exotic Weapon Proficiency, because warlords and the like always have some sort of fancy strange glowing exotic weapon.
Ghalleon 08-09-07, 10:51 PM	Well despite the contradiction that may have been there, you took me the wrong way. Optimizing for me is basically breaking the character, it's all I've encountered and well I haven't enjoyed it. I'm merely looking to play a marshal wondering what skills/feats are the ones to look at for the class. Things like leadership, keeping diplomacy and sense motive maxed those skills and feats that fit the marshal flavor, not necessarily causing him to be optimized or broken by any means of the word.
StruckingFuggle 08-09-07, 11:07 PM	Ugh. Sorry. Bad day. I knew full well what you meant, I just disagree with your usage of the word optimization. Besides, literally, if you don't want optimal suggestions, you are asking for second-tier or worse suggestions. If you wanna be good at something, ask for how to be good at it. Instead of saying you "don't want optimization", try qualifying it with 'practical', like, "how would I practically optimize a marshal" (such that he's good at what he does, but doesn't break the game). :)
Ghalleon 08-09-07, 11:10 PM	Well what would be suggestions for a practically optimized but not game-breaking marshal (Though i don't think the marshal is game-breaking by any means.) I'll also edit out the first post so that we don't have this miscommunication from another user. I also don't mean to misuse optimization, since it and breaking the game are different things, but really that's all I've dealt with since I don't spend much time other than at the CO boards browsing. Finally was able to break from the habit of breaking characters and I also decided to start looking around the other sections to see what everything else had.
FponkDamn 08-10-07, 09:08 AM	It seems as though the Marshall has some really fun skills, and they're good enough to be useful in a party. I almost like them better as the "fifth man" than the Bard, because even without the spellcasting, they have amazing beef abilities. My suggestions? Forget the physical stats. Despite their martial appearance, it's obvious that you're not going to be a frontliner with a medium BAB and a d8 hit die, so don't worry about Str and Dex much. Cha and Int are where it's at for you. You want skill points galore, so Human probably isn't a bad choice either (and honestly, humans are one of the few races I can see Marshall-ing for a mixed group. A dwarf might lead other dwarves, but your standard adventuring party is just going to want a human leader). Sense Motive is key - you need to be the deciding voice in many situations, and you can't be that if you're easily duped. The "big three" charisma skills are important as well (Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate) and you'll be very, very good at them with your main stat in Charisma. With all the synergy bonuses you can get on Diplomacy, plus your free Skill Focus in it, plus the fact that one of your minor auras lets you add your Cha to those skills twice? Be prepared for +20s or better, even at low levels. And that's not even with cheezy optimizing - that's just what you're going to have. As for Feat Selections, one of the first that struck me was Knowledge Devotion from Complete Champion. It lets you gain a bonus to attack and damage (up to +5) against any foe based on the result of your knowledge check to identify that foe. Since a Marshall gets all Knowledges as class skills (and should certainly be well-read about opponents his armies might face!), you could use this feat to even the odds when you are forced into melee, balancing out the fact that you won't be very strong. Plus, knowing your foes' weaknesses should be what you're after, anyway. Other feats you'll want include the following: - Anything that ups your AC. Dodge and Mobility might not be bad choices for you - you may need to move around a bit to keep allies in range of your Auras, and it's important you not drop during a fight. On that same note, things that increase your general survivability are at a premium (hit point/con boosters, miss chance generators, whatever you can get.) - Feats that affect your ability to Flank. Tactics are key for you, and flanking is one of the most basic (and most oft-used). During battle, you should often be using your Master of Tactics aura (your Cha bonus to all allies flanking damage rolls!) because it's so good, and therefore you'll want your allies to be able to use it. So things like Adaptable Flanker and Vexing Flanker are great. - The "Special Maneuver" feats (Improved Trip, Disarm, Sunder, or what have you). You probably won't be doing much damage, but if you have to fight, having a good way to contribute is very nice. One of the minor auras lets you add your cha bonus to these rolls, so you can easily be very good at, say, tripping an opponent. - Mounted Combat and friends. Three Awesomes: 1, it's harder to kill you when you're mounted. 2, being mounted makes you an effective fighter even if you're not too strong. 3, you'll look awesome leading a battlefield charge from the back of your badass horse. Not to mention the added mobility. These sorts of feats will generally help you be the "tactical master" in any given situation. Good Gear selections: - A Tower Shield. You may very well spend numerous rounds in a given combat not fighting. You might as well give yourself total cover while you do so, since it doesn't affect your ability to use Auras or grant move actions. Plus, this makes you more likely to survive round-to-round, which as we discussed is important. All those auras and leadership abilities are going to make you a huge target, so you want to neutralize that as much as you can. - A whip. Now, this has some interesting flavor connotations: Are you a good marshall or a bad one? A good marshall could use a whip to trip opponents or aid another (something you should consider doing often) from a distance, and combined with Improved Trip and the trip-helping aura, you'd be mighty good at it. But! Even better, an evil Marshall might enjoy whipping his own troops into a frenzy... - Aura-upping magic items. There are a few in the MIC, including one set geared towards Marshalls. I seem to remember it being pretty good (don't have it in front of me) so you should check it out. You could also consider (as either feats or gained through multiclassing) maneuvers from the White Raven Discipline (from ToB) as they compliment the Marhsall quite well. A few levels in Swordsage and the Adaptable Style feat as a splash would give you several awesome things to do as standard actions instead of just hacking at the enemy alongside the fighter. Having something to do every round is important! Well, that seems like enough from me. Enjoy, and good luck playing what sounds like an awesome and fun class! - Johnny
Tolby 08-10-07, 01:52 PM	If your Marshell tends to lead from the rear I would suggest Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot. Use a bow in combat to aid your troops. There are numerous feats that utilize the "aid another" under certain situations and a Feat thats gives +4 to hit for flanking instead of standard +2. Communication with other players will be essential. Knowing what type of chracter they plan on running. Will they all be performing fancy battlefield manuavers? or will they mainly be casters? knowing this can help you make effective choices for the marshal. Skills Sense Motive would be a good skill as well as Diplomacy. I would also consider tumble to be able to move around the battlefield. Pick up Mithril armor to minize the ACP.
Thurbane 08-10-07, 03:06 PM	If your Marshal intends to do any front line fighting, I highly recommend Combat Expertise, Improved Trip and Improved Disarm.