Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wizardmon 04-21-07, 04:28 PM	Suppose an Martial Adept who specializes in the Iron Heart department were to take the feat Knock-Down. If he were to initiate one oh his strikes and deal 10+ damage, would he still be able to make a free trip attempt (supposing his weapon was a tripping weapon.) Would this also extend to Adamantine Hurricane or Lightning Throw?
DarkRhystar 04-21-07, 04:31 PM	Suppose an Martial Adept who specializes in the Iron Heart department were to take the feat Knock-Down. If he were to initiate one oh his strikes and deal 10+ damage, would he still be able to make a free trip attempt (supposing his weapon was a tripping weapon.) Would this also extend to Adamantine Hurricane or Lightning Throw? If we're talking about the 3.0 Sword and Fist version, then yes. As long as you meet the 10+ damage and melee criteria, you get the benefit of Knockdown.
Wizardmon 04-21-07, 04:33 PM	I'm using this version, which I must assume is 3.5 http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knockDown
leif008 04-21-07, 04:40 PM	Wow dude, did you even read that page? That's an EPIC feat, meaning 21st level and above. If you want a low level version go high sword / low axe from complete warrior.
Tempest Stormwind 04-21-07, 04:46 PM	Wow dude, did you even read that page? That's an EPIC feat, meaning 21st level and above. If you want a low level version go high sword / low axe from complete warrior. It isn't, actually. It's a direct verbatim copy from 3.0 sword and fist, reprinted in Deities & Demigods, and thus it's in the SRD without being truly "updated". Do note that it was written in Sword and Fist, which was of dubious balance even in 3.0. That book has also had many elements of it revised and updated, while leaving other, more broken ones in the background. Knock-Down has not been reprinted. Draw from this whatever conclusion you might get.
Wizardmon 04-21-07, 05:40 PM	Either way, the character I'm using this for is epic, so there should be no balance issue. Also, I don't understand why, if it were an epic feat, it would not say so, and why it's prerequisites are so easy to meet.
darkeness 04-21-07, 07:23 PM	That feat was errated early on. It seems like a great feat but is not. You do the damage and get the trip attack, but you DO NOT get the free attack that improved trip offers. So for 3 feats (combat expertise, impr. Trip & knock down) you can potentially make less of an impact on the battle than with just the first 2 feats. All it really does is makes sure you do your damage in case you fail your trip attempt. Not very special for a feat.
Wizardmon 04-21-07, 08:29 PM	I didn't even realize that you got an attack after an Improved Trip attempt. O.o Either way, I still like Knock-Down. Would Knock-Down allow me to attempt the trip attempt during an attack of opportunity?
Nadaka 04-21-07, 10:04 PM	no it would not allow it. You are able to trip on an AoO even without the feat. All it means is that you get to deal damage and then trip instead of trip and then damage if you just had improve trip.
Johannixx 04-22-07, 04:05 AM	The Sage also ruled that if you fail a trip attempt using Knockdown, you cannot be counter-tripped. You're not hooking and tugging, you're hitting someone just right and very hard. That, IMHO, is worth a feat. I've been using Knockdown for a barbarian for some time now (started in 3.0, still going in 3.5). It doesn't always work, but it's a lot of fun regardless, especially when I manage to knock down a giant or golem through the luck of the dice. The barbarian deals +16 damage per hit when raging, so every successful attack triggers Knockdown. If the bad guy's on the ground, he either soaks a 4-point penalty to attacks and AC, or he wastes all but one of his attacks and provokes an AoO for standing up. Either way, I win, especially when the rogue is flanking the guy and her AoO packs 5 dice of sneak attack.
runestar 04-22-07, 10:01 AM	It is funny that it should have improved trip as a prerequisite feat if you would not the bonus attack which it grants. Are you sure that is how it is supposed to work? I posed a similar question like this in another thread but the final conclusion was still undecided. About half felt that improved trip would give you an extra attack, the other half felt that it would only give you the free action you used for the trip back(which is pretty much worthless). I admit that it might be a bit on the strong side(you hit, trip and hit again) though.:P It is not a bad choice though. The wolf berserker feat from Unapproachable East allows you to take improved trip without having to meet the prereqs(no need for expertise or 13int). :)
DarkRhystar 04-22-07, 12:07 PM	I admit that it might be a bit on the strong side(you hit, trip and hit again) though.:P In the grand scheme of D&D, is that really strong?
Wizardmon 04-22-07, 02:55 PM	Ok. Let me get this straight. Here is what I have gathered here, I want to see if this is accurate. Pros: -KD allows you to deal damage, and then trip, instead of visa-versa. -KD does not provoke a 'counter' trip attempt. Cons: -Does not allow "Attack-trip-attack." Various: -Supposedly overpowered -Has had the Sage coment on it (Link please?) -Has been errata-ed (link?) If anybody has any corrections or additions, please say so.