Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Skyblade 04-30-07, 06:39 PM	When first reading the description of these two feats, I'm under the impression that you can only gain first level maneuvers/stances this way. But as i flipped through the book, I saw some sample classes that were gaining second level maneuvers using these feats - without ever taking initiate levels. One example is the sample character for the Shadow Sun Ninja PrC. We have a half-orc qualifying for the prestige class with just 6 levels of monk, somehow able to gain the 2nd level Shadowhand maneuver needed through Martial Study. Can someone clarify this?
Eragon_seer 04-30-07, 06:44 PM	no, you can gain any level of stance or maneuver with the martial stance/study feat, but only if you have the requiered innitiator level for them, which for non martial classes is 1/2 charector level.
Skyblade 04-30-07, 08:24 PM	Really? Then anyone can just take a single level of initiate then advance as normal, and eventually be able to easily learn up to 5th level stances and maneuvers? Thanks for the quick reply.
ThePope 04-30-07, 09:10 PM	actually... if you were any non-adept class your initiator level is lvl/2... regardless of whether you ever take an adept class... so as long as you have a high enough intiator level and the right number of prereq manuevers you can take any manuever... for a totally non-adept character you would max out at a 5th level manuever with your lvl 18 feat. all that to say... initiator level = adept level + non-adept lvls/2
Nezkrul 04-30-07, 09:23 PM	all that to say... initiator level = adept level + non-adept lvls/2 this part is correct, but it isn't half your character level for non adepts, it is the sum of half of your class levels in each non-adept class rounded down; for instance a multiclassed character with odd levels in most of his classes will end up with a lower initiator level than a character with even numbered levels in all his classes (a fighter 3 / barbarian 3 / ranger 3, has an initiator level of 3 for those feats because the sum of 3/2 + 3/2 + 3/2 (rounded down each time) is 3; but a fighter 2 / barbarian 2 / ranger 2 / frenzied berserker 3 would have an initiator level of 4 for those feats) sum of (class levels / 2) rounded down for each class.
Nadaka 04-30-07, 09:47 PM	this part is correct, but it isn't half your character level for non adepts, it is the sum of half of your class levels in each non-adept class rounded down; for instance a multiclassed character with odd levels in most of his classes will end up with a lower initiator level than a character with even numbered levels in all his classes (a fighter 3 / barbarian 3 / ranger 3, has an initiator level of 3 for those feats because the sum of 3/2 + 3/2 + 3/2 (rounded down each time) is 3; but a fighter 2 / barbarian 2 / ranger 2 / frenzied berserker 3 would have an initiator level of 4 for those feats) sum of (class levels / 2) rounded down for each class. This is incorrect. a person with no martial classes has an initiator level = character level / 2. A multiclass character with martial classes has a initiator level equal to his martial class level + 1/2 the levels he has in other classes. It clearly and unquestionably states this in the book on page 39.
theotherdraxen 04-30-07, 10:03 PM	Really? Then anyone can just take a single level of initiate then advance as normal, and eventually be able to easily learn up to 5th level stances and maneuvers? Thanks for the quick reply. If I understand what you're saying, you don't need any levels in any of the three ToB classes to qualify for those feats. A pure fighter can take Sudden Leap as his second-level bonus feat, Blood in the Water with Martial Stance at 4th level, and then take both Pouncing Charge and Dancing Mongoose at 18th level. This is incorrect. a person with no martial classes has an initiator level = character level / 2. A multiclass character with martial classes has a initiator level equal to his martial class level + 1/2 the levels he has in other classes. It clearly and unquestionably states this in the book on page 39. Exactly. It says "+1/2 your levels in all other classes".
ThePope 04-30-07, 10:06 PM	nadaka has it right... which means i was right before him :) it is most definitely your actual character level/2, the classes are not divided individually... "determine your initiator level by adding together your level in that class + 1/2 your levels in all other classes." or if you prefer the earlier line "If you lack any martial adept levels, your initiator level is equal to 1/2 your character level." p39 if you're curious
Tempest Stormwind 04-30-07, 10:14 PM	If I understand what you're saying, you don't need any levels in any of the three ToB classes to qualify for those feats. A pure fighter can take Sudden Leap as his second-level bonus feat, Blood in the Water with Martial Stance at 4th level, and then take both Pouncing Charge and Dancing Mongoose at 18th level. Right idea, bad example. Sudden Leap requires another Tiger Claw maneuver, and Martial Study doesn't bypass that. The only Tiger Claw maneuvers that have no maneuver prereqs are Wolf Fang Strike and Claw at the Moon.
RLRapp 05-01-07, 03:22 AM	no, you can gain any level of stance or maneuver with the martial stance/study feat, but only if you have the requiered innitiator level for them, which for non martial classes is 1/2 charector level. PLUS meet the prerequisite for the Maneuver itself, many of the higher lvl require you to already have a maneuver from that discipline.