Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shadow_blade 01-07-08, 03:34 PM	As the title implies I'm playing a wizard, have just reached 6th level and I want to pick a metamagic feat. My initial choice Sculpt Spell was scuppered when I realised it had a prereq of 'any metamagic feat'. I'm after something which I'll get some mileage from at this level (ie not more than a +2 spell LA) and that has proved good/fun in your experience (hopefully both!). I like the sound of Smiting spell from PHBII but only on the condition I can cast it on another's weapon and have them discharge the spell and the wording of the feat seems to imply this isn't possible ("...The next time you strike an opponent with that weapon the spell discharges..."). Thanks in advance SB P.S. I favour disabling/debuffing spells over damage dealing (have barred evocation)
LSMFT 01-07-08, 03:44 PM	Well, it depends on the sources you have available: I've always liked Extend Spell for a wizard. Making my buffs last longer means fewer castings means more slots devoted to taking down the bad guys. Empower Spell is good: try it with your debuffs like Ray of Enfeeblement. But I think you would really like Fell Drain from LM. It imposes a negative level on all those who take damage from the spell.
Shadow_blade 01-07-08, 04:13 PM	Just looked up Fell Drain and you're right, I do like the sound of it :) The problem I have is that it presumably works better with AoE damage spells - something I wont really be taking. Extend was my first thought but on reflection I couldn't come up with enough specific uses for it. Is Empower better than Split Ray? Both are +2 and I do enjoy a good Ray of Enfeeblement...
LSMFT 01-07-08, 05:00 PM	There is always a need for nice area direct damage spells. If you are concerned about it, you can look at Black Lore of the Moil in CA. It provides a way for you to add some minimal damage to non-damaging Necromacy spells. So you could add damage to a spell like Waves of Fatigue or Ray of Enfeeblment. This damage will allow Fell Drain to work. Is Empower better than Split Ray? Both are +2 and I do enjoy a good Ray of Enfeeblement...Split Ray is a nice one. Empower has some advantages though: For your ROE, spilling the ray will be great if you've two opponents, but if you fire them both at one, it won't stack. More generally, Empower can be use on many, many more spells than Split Ray can. It works best with area spells, but Neg levels are the best debuff out there for living opponents.
JamesMaissen 01-07-08, 05:06 PM	Is Empower better than Split Ray? Both are +2 and I do enjoy a good Ray of Enfeeblement... Empower is much better than split ray for ray of enfeeblement. The ray gives a penalty to strength and not damage so multiple rays will only overlap their penalties on one target. An empowered 10th caster level ray of enfeeblement can give a -16 strength penalty to the poor sucker you hit with it and a minimum of -9. Well worth a 3rd level slot. Furthermore you can empower far more things than you can split ray (i.e. false life, mirror image, and general damage spells). The only thing that split ray really does better than empower out of core books is enervation and that's not by all that much. -James
Droma 01-07-08, 07:04 PM	Quick question, what did you do with your 5th lvl bonus metamagic feat? You should have the pre-req for sculpt spell already.
Shadow_blade 01-08-08, 07:34 AM	Feats thus far: 1st: Spellcasting Prodigy 3rd: Skill Focus (Knowledge Religion) - needed for access to Divine Oracle PrC 5th: Spontaneous Divination substitution (from Complete Champion) - I am a diviner specialist and this seemed an obvious choice. So no metamagic yet but I figured I wouldn't get much mileage from any until this point anyway. To reply to LSMFT, I did look at BLoM but it requires even more feat investment (Spell Focus Necro) and the benefits aren't worth it, for this character at least. In reply to JamesMaissen, we're not limited to the core books as it happens but I was fairly certain that empower was superior to split ray and just needed a little persuasion from someone with experience - thanks! :) In summary, it's not that I think Extend and Empower are poor choices but I would ideally like a feat which alters the nature of a spell (ala Sculpt/Fell Drain) as opposed to just boosting the effect. If I could find one with fun flavour potential that would be even better - hence why I began this thread about the Slimy spell metamagic feat: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=975416 I also noticed when scouring a list of metamagic feats one called Entangling spell - does anyone know where this is from and/or how good it would be in my case? One final thing, how do people rule Smiting Spell - should you be allowed to charge up weapons to distribute amongst the party or must the wizard be the one to discharge the effect? -SB
LSMFT 01-08-08, 11:37 AM	5th: Spontaneous Divination substitution (from Complete Champion) - I am a diviner specialist and this seemed an obvious choice.Actually, a diviner has to dedicate his bonus spell-slot to a divination spell, but you can convert any slot to any divination spell, so anyone with the same number of slots-per day as you gets a little more flexibility than you. (Flavor-wise, it works great, and it is really a great ability regardless.) To reply to LSMFT, I did look at BLoM but it requires even more feat investment (Spell Focus Necro) and the benefits aren't worth it, for this character at least.Yeah, it is a pretty feat-intensive way to go. I also noticed when scouring a list of metamagic feats one called Entangling spell - does anyone know where this is from and/or how good it would be in my case?It can only apply to spells with an energy descriptor, acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage, and that doesn't seem to be your thing. (It is from Champions of Ruin, by the way.) One final thing, how do people rule Smiting Spell - should you be allowed to charge up weapons to distribute amongst the party or must the wizard be the one to discharge the effect?You can alter a spell with a range of touch to transfer its energy from your hand to a weapon that you hold. The next time you strike an opponent with that weapon, the spell discharges.Strict reading, it works only for you. Even with a liberal ruling that you could pass the weapon off to another, it would almost have to be done in combat, since the Smiting Spell must be discharged in a minute or less. That makes is not so practical IMHO.
RobbyPants 01-08-08, 11:51 AM	Sculpt Spell is certainly a nice one to have. In addition to allowing you to hit enemies while avoiding your allies, you can often times drastially increase the area of certain spells. I was in a game last week where I played a UMD rogue with a wand of Sculpted Grease. That was fantastic. Anyway, back to your character. It looks like so far you are looking for a metamagic feat as a prereq and you've narrowed it down to three choises: Extend Spell - I like this one a lot, but it's partially because of the mere +1 level cost. Also, lesser metamagic rods of extend are relatively cheap (3,000 gp), allowing you to extend up to three 1st - 3rd level spells per day without a level increase. This works great for things like Mage Armor, and several other buffs that you might use on yourself or others. Split Ray - When using rays, this is far superior to Twin Spell. It looks like you still have Conjuration (as you only banned Evocation). The various Lesser Orb and Orb spells work nicely with this one. As mentioned by others, don't use it on a single target if the spell applies a penalty instead of damage, as they won't stack. Empower Spell - For overall versitility, I'd say this one is better than Split Ray, unless you're specializing in rays. There are some pretty good combos with this feat, like the aforementioned Empowered Ray of Enfeeblement. Also, if you're up for an interesting and informitive read, check out Being Batman: The Logic Ninja's Guide to Wizards (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500). It's a long read, but there are a lot of good things about spell and feat selection.
Shadow_blade 01-09-08, 02:04 PM	Thanks to all for your advice. RobbyPants, I have seen that guide already and bookmarked it straight away. Of the 3 feats you suggest I can rule 2 of them out: Extend - just doesn't float my boat. I don't deny it's a good feat it just doesn't excite me and I'd really like a feat that has some flavour to it. Split Ray - As described by JamesMaissen less versatile than Empower and no more exciting flavourwise. So that leaves Empower which is not exactly thrilling me but I can certainly see plenty of good uses for it. LSMFT, I think I'll have to ditch the Smiting spell idea - I've never been one for begging the DM for lenient ruling. Plus I can only really think of a few spells I'll get to use it with (although Ghoul Touching the monk's kama would be very cool!) Fell Drain is still very much in there with a shout too, it would just require some intelligent spell choices on this level up. How about Ocular Spell? Shooting rays from your eyes has got to be cool! Is it good too though? -SB
Rattus 01-10-08, 10:37 AM	Occular Spell doesn't sound mind-blowing to me- more like a 1/day poor mans quicken (and if you don't cast the spells in the 8hrs, do they dissipate as if cast?!) for the same level increase, I'd have thought you'd get better milage from Reach Spell.
Avatar of Kokusho 01-10-08, 10:48 AM	There's a lot of metamagic out there, if you know where to find it. Since you prefer debuffing/disabling spells over direct damage, then Reach Spell is a good choice, as a few of them have a touch range. Extend Spell works on all those nasty stat penalty spells, and Heighten can help with those that allow a saving throw. Enlarge could be good, if you prefer to cast your close range spells from a bit farther back. Energy Substitution (for your Orb spells) makes one Orb into the type of your feat choice.
dman11235 01-10-08, 10:59 AM	Wait, you're focusing that much on divination and you haven't entered Master Specialist? You can do it at 4! Well, I'd like to put a third (fourth? Fifth? I've lost count) on empower. It can be mean with your debuffs. Reach is also good, but personally I'd just wait until I enter Archmage. Same for energy sub. Extend can be good, but you're almost to the point where it just lasts all battle for round/level one and all day for hour/level (I use 8 hour duration as just on all day).
LSMFT 01-10-08, 11:14 AM	Occular Spell doesn't sound mind-blowing to me- more like a 1/day poor mans quicken (and if you don't cast the spells in the 8hrs, do they dissipate as if cast?!) for the same level increase, I'd have thought you'd get better milage from Reach Spell.I really like Occular Spell. It is a poor-man's Quicken, be hell, Quicken is +4, and Ocular is only +2. Color me poor. And, that effect is combined with the benefits of Reach Spell, at the same +2 cost. Oh, and with a range double that of Reach Spell. In addition, I think you may have implied that you can only use Ocular 1/day. But, while you can store the spell in your eye for up to 8 hours, once it is used, you can put another spell there. Not really feasible to do during combat, since you have to spend at least a round "loading" each eye, but you can easily "refill" your eyes between encounters. My experience with this feat was a sorcerer who would load each eye with Shivering Touch. Opening attack was two rays for 3d6 Dex damage each, in one round, at range. I was sad when the spell was nerfed, but not surprised. He also liked Vampire Touch and Touch of Idiocy.
Shadow_blade 01-11-08, 02:32 PM	Wait, you're focusing that much on divination and you haven't entered Master Specialist? You can do it at 4! The Master Specialist is such a bland PrC in my opinion. I don't doubt it's good (particularly because of it's low level prereqs) I just don't see what it adds flavour-wise over being a normal specialist wizard. I much prefer the flavour of the Divine Oracle (and the Fatespinner which I'll be going into later). I'm not planning on Archmage - way too many feat prereqs and I can't see us playing much later than level 15 in this campaign anyway - so reach and sculpt are still viable options. I think Energy sub would be wasted for me since I use so few energy spells. Empower is still on the table but I'm more inclined to go with Fell Drain or Ocular because they alter the nature of a spell as opposed to just boosting it's effect. Thanks to all for continuing support! :) -SB
LSMFT 01-11-08, 02:58 PM	Flavor-wise, the master specialist has a lot on the regular specialized wizard. Mostly, that's because the regular specialized wizard doesn't have that much flavor of his own. Tons of flavor comes from the player and what he does, but mechanically, name one thing your diviner can do that a regular old generalist can't? The specialist derives more flavor from the schools he bars than the one he specializes in. The Esoterica of the Master Specialists give them something special over the generalist wizard. IMHO That said, the Esoterica of the Diviner Master Specialist are so-so in your case. Uncanny Dodge is nice, and the free True Seeing is sweet, but you won't get that one until the tenth-level of the PrC, which you'll likely never see if you are taking levels of Divine Oracle and Fatespinner too.
dman11235 01-11-08, 03:27 PM	Yeah, it's just there as filler since you can enter it at 4. You do have to admit it has more flavor than a non-PrCed wizard.
JaffetC 01-11-08, 09:22 PM	Im not too sure about the Feats in general. Like i made a wizard(Human) and automatically I get Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat. but then im allowed my normal feat and then an additional for beign human so at Lv. 1 Can i have Scribe Scroll, Silent Spell, and Still spell. the goal is to become a Controller, and then Prestige Class it to Mindbender.