Post/Author/DateTime	Post
G_Mancer 03-29-08, 11:29 PM	What do people usually pick between Deflect Arrows and Combat Reflexes? does one feat get used more than the other? is one more useful? the monk IS martial Ranger3 Monk2 Fist of the Forest1 (also, does anyone know of an errata to this book(complete Champion)? i'm hopin there is somethin sayin "a monk can still take lvls in monk" since they say that monks are best suited for this class)
Kouk 03-30-08, 12:04 AM	If you have any kind of decent DEX, even with items, I would go with Combat Reflexes between those two options. You get extra attacks, and can take AoOs when flatfooted. Considering Deflect Arrows... , you can't use it when flat-footed against enemies ambushing you at range anyhow, and usually a Monk would close to melee ASAP with their incredible speed, so it is less of an issue. A Monk probably will have a pretty darn good AC anyway, it is their offensive power which is a bit low. Remember also, you can make attacks like Trips with your AoOs.
The_Shaman 03-30-08, 12:17 AM	Another vote for CR. It is imo more useful in its right - monks tend to have decent dex, try to be in melee combat where it is much more effective than DA - but iirc also a prerequisite for a few other decent feats. Deflect arrows is imo too situational.
Salla 03-30-08, 12:53 AM	Another vote for Combat Reflexes.
Shadowhowler 03-30-08, 12:57 AM	And yet another vote for Combat Reflexes. Obvously, it depends on your Monk and what you want him to do... but I just think more times then not, Combat Reflexes is going to be more usefull more often.
G_Mancer 03-30-08, 01:00 AM	thanx
The_Shaman 03-30-08, 04:54 AM	BTW, you are getting Ascetic Hunter, right?
Baninor 03-30-08, 11:02 AM	No take Fiery Fist. Its in the PHBII. Spend a stunning fist use and gain 1d6 fire damage on your unarmed damage for the rest of the round. And yes Monks can take it as their bonus feat at level 2.
G_Mancer 03-30-08, 05:32 PM	BTW, you are getting Ascetic Hunter, right? i was going to, but going into theprestige class would mean i cant go up in monk anymore so i took vexing flanker at 3rd (and adaptable flanker at 6th).
Orenmir 03-30-08, 10:01 PM	In most cases, Combat Reflexes is a better choice. However, there are some Monk builds that benefit from Deflect Arrows. A grappler is one. While grappling, CR is completely useless; but DA can still be used. Nowhere in the grappling rules does it say you must use both hands. Afterall, grappling is not a synonym for wrestling. Jujitsu is a form of grappling where your hands are not constantly on your opponent. Therefore, you could have a free hand to use DA. There are also other 2nd level Monk feat choices that could make better sense than either: Fiery Fist does well for a Chaos Monk since he can usually get more attacks per round than the normal Monk. It bodes well for a Monk that finds himself Hasted often. It's also good for the flavor -- flaming hands are kewl. Other than that, it's not a great feat. Monastic Training is a prereq for Tashalatora -- the End-All-Be-All of a Psionic Monk's feat choice. Flensing Strike is a must for any Kama-wielding Monk. But, I'm not sure why anyone would want to be a Kama-wielding Monk. There must be more, but I could only come up with these off the top of my head.
G_Mancer 03-31-08, 02:50 PM	Chaos monk?
Orenmir 03-31-08, 03:31 PM	Chaos monk? Dragon Mag #335, I think. A much better version of the Monk. The big feature substitute is Flailing Strike instead of Flurry of Blows -- roll to see how many extra attacks per full round. At first level a Chaos Monk can get as many as 4 iterative attacks, and that's base. By level 15 it increases to 9. There are some other goodies, too. Pick up the mag, it's well worth it. Chaos Monk is considered to be much better than the core Monk. And, you can multiclass into Barbarian -- always fun!
EjoThims 03-31-08, 08:17 PM	Only do CR if you've got reach (or are going for a Karmic Strike style build). Otherwise (especially in early levels) you'll rarely, rarely use it. Deflect Arrows is wishy-washy (though it can be all kinds of fun in epic). In my opinion, unless you're going to be able to really take advantage of CR, use one of the UA variants that'll give a 2nd level feat you will actually use.
kamronshepard 03-31-08, 11:02 PM	Combat Reflexes
MAdgryphon 04-01-08, 01:59 AM	For a standard generalized monk, I would generally agree that Combat Reflexes is the better all around choice. However, Deflect Arrows has it's place, be it for a specific build, or as with my most recent monk, for roleplay reasons. This guy's a vow(s) of Peace, Poverty, and Nonviolence monk of Illmater. It just didn't make sense for him to take a feat that allows him to attack more often as opposed to a feat that lets him literally turn damage to the side with his hand, you know?
herrdoktor 04-01-08, 03:37 AM	personally, i like deflect arrows. it can be awesome against some enemies at lower levels (i remember one combat where it kicked total ass - crossbowers trying to stop me from punching the crap out of their mage boss), but it is quite situational. it's best suited for a powerful monk with high AC (lots of ranged attacks won't hit you (high touch hurts rays, DA stops lots of arrows)), since it gives you a bit more versatility. it also looks awesome, which can be a draw for some characters (the 'supercool' kind) (plus there are cool epic-level feats based off of it). combat reflexes can be nice, but it can be significantly nerfed by some dms - namely those who play the dumb-as-rocks npcs/monsters as intelligently as smart pcs - 5-ft steps and tumbling galore, to avoid AoOs. in those cases, combat reflexes almost never comes into play, since AoOs don't either (on the other hand, that monster who has combat reflexes will catch you unawares when someone tries to draw an AoO to stop a teammate from getting hit by one later). objectively, combat reflexes is better, but i think it depends a lot on your dm. (now that i'm dming, one of the things that makes me happy is getting to point at a player and say "you can make an attack of opportunity." there have been a serious dearth of those in the past few adventures)
ciaran 04-01-08, 02:41 PM	My Order of the Bow Goblin got owned by a Spring Attacking Monk with Imp Trip and Deflect Arrows. :D
Druss_of_The_Sword 04-01-08, 08:33 PM	Why continue with monk? Use an Unarmed damage swordsage. Think about shadow sun ninja as well. For your chosen discipline, either Setting Sun or Stone Dragon. Both have favored weapon Unarmed strike. free weapon focus and add WIS to attacks. Shadow Blade is also useful for high DEX. ((Correct me if im wrong here. I'm going under the assumption that SS and Monk stack for detirmining UA damage.
Kouk 04-02-08, 02:52 AM	((Correct me if im wrong here. I'm going under the assumption that SS and Monk stack for detirmining UA damage. You are wrong, they do not stack.
herrdoktor 04-02-08, 11:00 AM	Why continue with monk? Use an Unarmed damage swordsage. Think about shadow sun ninja as well. For your chosen discipline, either Setting Sun or Stone Dragon. Both have favored weapon Unarmed strike. free weapon focus and add WIS to attacks. Shadow Blade is also useful for high DEX. ((Correct me if im wrong here. I'm going under the assumption that SS and Monk stack for detirmining UA damage. there could be a few reasons: 1) lots of people don't like ToB. they're crazy, i know, but they exist. 2) damage doesn't stack (like above poster already mention) (however, the dm might let the class levels stack for determining it) 3) unarmed swordsage is very loosely detailed in ToB. it certainly isn't an official variant - more of a suggestion of something to work out with your dm. 4) monk gets a few very useful things over the next few levels, notably extra speed and magical fists (fighting with non-magical fists is a sure way to do poorly against the many creatures with (normally inconsequential) DR/magic)
angryscrub 04-02-08, 12:29 PM	... In my opinion, unless you're going to be able to really take advantage of CR, use one of the UA variants that'll give a 2nd level feat you will actually use. i second this. the monk fighting styles variant in the SRD is probably the way to go. just pick one you like.
ToastedAmphibian 04-02-08, 05:48 PM	Nowhere in the grappling rules does it say you must use both hands. Afterall, grappling is not a synonym for wrestling. Jujitsu is a form of grappling where your hands are not constantly on your opponent. Therefore, you could have a free hand to use DA. Well, it dosnt say so in the grapple rules, but it strongly implies in the improved grab rules that grappling is NORMALLY a full body afair. Part of improved grab is the added ability to grapple with just a PART of your body. And to do that you must have improved grab AND take a -20 to your grapple checks. Unless otherwise noted, improved grab works only against opponents at least one size category smaller than the creature. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the improved grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a -20 penalty on grapple checks, but is not considered grappled itself; the creature does not lose its Dexterity bonus to AC, still threatens an area, and can use its remaining attacks against other opponents. To teh OP: If your worried about not being able to continue progressing as a MONK, consider taking another prestige class that stacks with your monk level. Tatooed monk is the most straight forward i think, it has no requierments for multiclassing or even alignment as far as i rember. I think you need to be monk level 3+ however, as you need still mind class feature. Shadow sun Ninja is also an option, but might take some work to qualify for. If you do go the shadow sun direction, make sure you pcik up Shadow blade. It lets you add your dex bonus to all attacks made with a shadow hand weapon (Unnarmed Strikes for example) while in a shadow hand stance (Like assassins stance mmmmm free sneak attack) Im sure there are others out there as well (drunken master?). Your best bet would be to look around and find one you already meet the requierments for, if possible. Edit: I looked it up, Tatoed monk does require you to be lawfull. The only feats you need are endurance, improved grapple, and IUS, so should be REALLy easy to qualify for. Monk 4 ranger 3 fist of the forest 3 then Tatoed monk 10 At level 20 you do full monk damage. And arguably more if you use a monks belt, depending on how yoru dm reads the "increase the damage to the next step indicated"
ToastedAmphibian 04-02-08, 06:06 PM	Why wouldnt you take 4 levels of monk? That would get you an extra damage dice atleast, as well as making your attacks "Lesser Ghost Touch", and givng you your first speed enhancment. On a side note, why ranger 2? I cant see the combat style feat being all that helpfull to you. You might want to consider giong ranger 1, and taking the UA varient that gives you barbarian fast movment at level 1. Ranger 1 / Barb 1/ Monk 4/ FotF 1 well, makes for a speedy critter. 70ft movment speed for a human. More if you do regional/psionic feats. Now i must go, i have a new thri-kreen to design...
G_Mancer 04-03-08, 06:22 PM	Why wouldnt you take 4 levels of monk? That would get you an extra damage dice atleast, as well as making your attacks "Lesser Ghost Touch", and givng you your first speed enhancment. On a side note, why ranger 2? I cant see the combat style feat being all that helpfull to you. You might want to consider giong ranger 1, and taking the UA varient that gives you barbarian fast movment at level 1. Ranger 1 / Barb 1/ Monk 4/ FotF 1 well, makes for a speedy critter. 70ft movment speed for a human. More if you do regional/psionic feats. Now i must go, i have a new thri-kreen to design... Well, for flavor reasons having to do with the Trance of FoF, i want to have the TWF of ranger. the idea is for the guy to use twf and flurry while not in trance, and while in trance, he'll flurry with a two-handed quarterstaff while power attacking.. the flurry and TWF gives me this impression of training and disciple to get to the point where you can attack that much... and then switching to the more primal and awesome power of two-handed power-attacks while tranced. but if you can describe a better way of going through this change with your mechanics, i'm open minded.
EjoThims 04-03-08, 08:02 PM	but if you can describe a better way of going through this change with your mechanics, i'm open minded. You can be a chaos monk, then flurry+TWF+rage+trance. A mind caught up in primal anger and chaos, turning it back on itself to reach a meditative, focused state, more powerful and dangerous than the most analytical and reasoned thinkers. The main flavor draw of such a character is the exhaustion of such completely giving in and the ever burning presence of the rage itself, plus the comparative ineffectiveness of the character when truly in control. http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13076711&postcount=13 is a sample build idea, though it's set up mainly for damage and not so much flavor.
ToastedAmphibian 04-03-08, 09:23 PM	Monk:Whatever Bonus, Power Attack, TWF(HB) Monk:Whatever Bonus Monk: Monk: Fist of Forest Pre-Req Ranger: Track(B) Barbarian: Extra Rage FoTF: It also sets you up for a rather compelling background story. A monk gets cast out of his monestary for failing to abide by there strict edicts, learns the ways of the natural world, and eventually falls into chaotic barbarism. Then he finds a way to internalize his love of nature with his internal calm, thus channeling his rageing immotions through embracing a life in tune with the naturally ordered chaos of nature. Learning along the way how to channel his rage into a slightly more controlled form (A trance). On a side note, and from a stictly mechanical standpoint.... dont TWF with the quarter staff. Just dont do it unless you have some really good idea for it. Weild the staf two handed, and use your unarmed strike as your off hand attack. Or use the staff two handed and use IT as your off-hand weapon, using yoru UAS as yoru primary. Why do 1d6+str/1d6+.5str when you could do 1d6+1.5str/1d10+str Now you just need good Dex/Str/Wisdom/Con .... err....Hope you wernt planning on being the smart/friendly type.. My group normally does a 36 point buy, so if i where making this character i would go: Str 14, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 8 Or Str 15, Dex 15, rasing dex at level 4, str at 8
ToastedAmphibian 04-03-08, 09:37 PM	Oh, in my above post, if you dont want to be human, take power attack as your first level monk bonus feat. Then you dont even really need 13 str. You could power attack with a str of 8 if you wanted :} I love Unearthed Arcana variants....