Monk school speciliazation?! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Monk school speciliazation?! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Windspear
08-01-07, 07:05 AM Why doesn't the monk class get school speciliazation?
There are many types of martial arts (judo, karate, tae kwon do), so why doesn't the monk get to specialize in one of them?

Every martial art (school) will give the monk different abilities (very much like the ranger's combat style). For instence: If judo is chosen, the monk will specialize in grappling and tripping, or if karate is chosen the monk will be better at beating the crap out of people.

What do you say?
runestar
08-01-07, 07:12 AM UA has such a variant, IIRC. Basically, it changes the list of bonus feats you get at lv1,2 and 6 to suit a particular theme such as snake or crane.
constanzza
08-01-07, 10:55 PM i think thats a great idea,since i adore monk
i think there are some feats, like defensive throw or some other similar feats.
combat style :
punching and kicking
or
grappling and wrestling and throwing
and maybe, i thing some armlocks and leglocks would be great!

shurikens are ok, but kama and stuff sux!
hey, maybe there could be something about how does monk pounches his opponents with his heands, open palm, or fist, or maybe fingers.
just watch some old kung-fu movies, or bruce lee , maybe chackie chan?
that would be great!
Kouk
08-02-07, 12:55 AM Several of these sorts of things have been printed already.

First the free one:http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#monkVariantF ightingStyles

And several more involved ones are in the book Oriental Adventures. In general the book has a lot of stuff for Monks, like new Monk weapons and Prestige Classes. The book is version 3.0 though, so keep that in mind if you want to use it. But the martial arts styles weren't updated in the Dragon 318 OA update article so they are probably fine as-is.

Also, Dragon 315 has a few more of the styles in the same format as OA specifically for the old Kara-Tur setting. The setting isn't really important to using the martial arts styles though.
The_Unseen_Illusion
08-02-07, 03:13 AM shurikens are ok, but kama and stuff sux!

Ummm, kamas are awesome. Well anyway, back in the Oriental Adventures 2.0 i think (hah, can you believe i found them at our school library!) they had different styles of monk that you had, such as different abilities and different damages. The offensive style (Tae Kwon Do!) had abilities that translate to the modern prone fighting feat and decissive strike variant. lol, theres also this one with a steel cloth that has 10' range and automaticaly disarms.
constanzza
08-02-07, 08:39 PM Ummm, kamas are awesome.

i tought about those real monks.i mean they are all fighting kareate, kung fu styles.when you say monk, i mean hands and legs,kicks and punchs, knees and elbows.that thing should be maximized.imagine someone who is really good trained , like moo tai kickboxers, just imagine he strikes you with his elbow, or knee.i think you would be in a coma,dont you think?
watch some fights on eurosport, or over the internet.
imagine that guy strikes with full power orc or a goblin in a face :) hehe knockout:)
maybe some feat fighting style offensive(kicks and punches) or defensive(throws and locks) plus ki strike,lawful strike,magic strike,+5:)flurry of knees and elbows:)))yeah monk rulezz!!!!
InkBlot
08-03-07, 01:36 AM Get your hands on the Tome Of Battle. Look at the Swordsage. Look at Superior Unarmed Strike. Never play a monk using the Monk class ever again.

Swordsages are a lot like Monks, except that their fighting styles are completely customizable, their abilities work well together, and they're more fun to play.

Despite the name, Swordsages are not particularly dependant on swords (they excell at whatever fighting style you want, from juijitsu to karate to european fencing to pankration).
constanzza
08-03-07, 03:04 AM wwwoooowwww, you've heard of pankration?where?i have been on a first european games for non-olympics sports.i took place there in 2 disciplines, sport sambo and pankration
in sambo im 5th and in pankration im 7th
ok, i'll try to find that book somewhere.thanx
Kouk
08-03-07, 03:34 AM wwwoooowwww, you've heard of pankration?where?i have been on a first european games for non-olympics sports.i took place there in 2 disciplines, sport sambo and pankration
in sambo im 5th and in pankration im 7th
ok, i'll try to find that book somewhere.thanx

Note: There are no "real world" martial arts styles of any sort presented in Tome of Battle - just a few feats perhaps - and no disciplines in the martial arts sense, just a new system of basically "melee magic" with different "schools".
InkBlot
08-03-07, 11:00 AM There are "real world" martial arts styles presented in Tome Of Battle. It's just not explicit about it. It gives you all the strikes, stances, boosts, and counters you need to faithfully translate a shockingly wide variety real-world fighting styles into D&D.

See the Tome Of Battle Fighting Styles (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=846396) thread for more information.
Kouk
08-03-07, 02:10 PM Eh... which ones makes you become blurry? Makes you able to have flaming fists? Let's you ignore the hardness of metal?

Maybe if you want to extrapolate and "fantasticize" martial arts... but really I don't remember any maneuvers that just screamed to me, "Oh, yeah I did that in Karate class."

Maybe with a few exceptions with that sun style.
TorgSmackie
08-03-07, 02:59 PM Eh... which ones makes you become blurry? Makes you able to have flaming fists? Let's you ignore the hardness of metal?
Wing chun, muay thai, and shaolin iron palm training.
InkBlot
08-03-07, 04:22 PM Eh... which ones makes you become blurry? Makes you able to have flaming fists? Let's you ignore the hardness of metal?
First off, read the thread.

Second, you can just choose not to take those maneuvers. Just like a monk can just choose not to take the feats Fiery Fists, Cloak Dance, and Water Splitting Stone.

Third, only two out of the nine disciplines have anything supernatural. The other seven involve nothing of that sort.

Forth, monks already get the ability to bypass several kinds of damage reduction and hardness (ki strike adamantine). So if that's your beef than take it up with the monk class. Or just don't take those maneuvers! There's only like 6 of them!
Salla
08-03-07, 06:50 PM Whatever 'style' you want to specialize in, take feats that represent that style. It's that simple. Taking the feat Versatile Unarmed Strike (PHB2) lets you do punches (bludgeoning), chops (slashing), or spear-hand (piercing) maneuvers.

Improved Trip gives you judo-like abilities.
Improved Grapple is wrestling.
And so forth, and so on.

Everything else is flavor.

It does bear noting that, since D&D worlds are, at no point, actually part of the real world's history, you can't necessarily say that you're studying a real-world style, because it needn't have existed in the D&D world history.
InkBlot
08-03-07, 10:11 PM It does bear noting that, since D&D worlds are, at no point, actually part of the real world's history, you can't necessarily say that you're studying a real-world style, because it needn't have existed in the D&D world history.
Depends on the setting. Alternate history games, and games that cross D&D and D20 Modern, might not be the most common kind, but they aren't hard to come by either. I myself have run a game set in an alternate-history colonial New England in the year 1555, with dwarves, wizards, orcs, elves, etc.. In my game it would have been entirely appropriate to say your monk was trained in the Shaolin monastery, but was captured by pirates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaolin_kung_fu#Pirates) and found the adventuring life suitable.

But yes, a monk from Eberron would be more suited to practicing Tashalantora than Shaolin Kung Fu.
HuManBing
08-04-07, 01:44 PM I'm thinking of buffing monks a bit by allowing them to progress in ONE single Tome of Battle discipline. The rate of progression would be like a cleric - i.e. you get access to Martial Maneuver level X when you reach monk level (2X - 1). This also allows you access to ALL the maneuvers but you can only stay within one school.

This will make Monks a bit more powerful but I happen to think they're a little underpowered as is.
InkBlot
08-04-07, 02:35 PM The rate of progression would be like a cleric - i.e. you get access to Martial Maneuver level X when you reach monk level (2X - 1).
This is the normal progression for anybody with a full initiator level (instead of half initiator level, like all non-martial-adept classes). Just give this variant monk a full initiator level and you don't have to specify.

Giving monks all the maneuvers of one discipline is broken. In a single discipline there are as many, or more, maneuvers than a Swordsage can know (depending on the discipline). If you were going to take away nearly all of the Monk's class feature in exchange, then it might be balanced. But then you would be playing a Swordsage with access to just one discipline.

It also runs counter to the idea of customization. Each discipline has a narrow focus, but at the same time there are always going to be some maneuvers in each discipline that are just wrong for the character in question. What if you want to make a monk who is a master of defense, and can heal himself or others by channeling aggressive ki? You'd pick the Devoted Spirit discipline, right? But the Devoted Spirit discipline also contains maneuvers that specifically use shields, and deal heavily with alignments and divinity.

You'd be far better off just letting Monks choose Martial Study and Martial Stance for their bonus feats, and giving them a full initiator level.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Windspear 08-01-07, 07:05 AM	Why doesn't the monk class get school speciliazation? There are many types of martial arts (judo, karate, tae kwon do), so why doesn't the monk get to specialize in one of them? Every martial art (school) will give the monk different abilities (very much like the ranger's combat style). For instence: If judo is chosen, the monk will specialize in grappling and tripping, or if karate is chosen the monk will be better at beating the crap out of people. What do you say?
runestar 08-01-07, 07:12 AM	UA has such a variant, IIRC. Basically, it changes the list of bonus feats you get at lv1,2 and 6 to suit a particular theme such as snake or crane.
constanzza 08-01-07, 10:55 PM	i think thats a great idea,since i adore monk i think there are some feats, like defensive throw or some other similar feats. combat style : punching and kicking or grappling and wrestling and throwing and maybe, i thing some armlocks and leglocks would be great! shurikens are ok, but kama and stuff sux! hey, maybe there could be something about how does monk pounches his opponents with his heands, open palm, or fist, or maybe fingers. just watch some old kung-fu movies, or bruce lee , maybe chackie chan? that would be great!
Kouk 08-02-07, 12:55 AM	Several of these sorts of things have been printed already. First the free one:http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#monkVariantF ightingStyles And several more involved ones are in the book Oriental Adventures. In general the book has a lot of stuff for Monks, like new Monk weapons and Prestige Classes. The book is version 3.0 though, so keep that in mind if you want to use it. But the martial arts styles weren't updated in the Dragon 318 OA update article so they are probably fine as-is. Also, Dragon 315 has a few more of the styles in the same format as OA specifically for the old Kara-Tur setting. The setting isn't really important to using the martial arts styles though.
The_Unseen_Illusion 08-02-07, 03:13 AM	shurikens are ok, but kama and stuff sux! Ummm, kamas are awesome. Well anyway, back in the Oriental Adventures 2.0 i think (hah, can you believe i found them at our school library!) they had different styles of monk that you had, such as different abilities and different damages. The offensive style (Tae Kwon Do!) had abilities that translate to the modern prone fighting feat and decissive strike variant. lol, theres also this one with a steel cloth that has 10' range and automaticaly disarms.
constanzza 08-02-07, 08:39 PM	Ummm, kamas are awesome. i tought about those real monks.i mean they are all fighting kareate, kung fu styles.when you say monk, i mean hands and legs,kicks and punchs, knees and elbows.that thing should be maximized.imagine someone who is really good trained , like moo tai kickboxers, just imagine he strikes you with his elbow, or knee.i think you would be in a coma,dont you think? watch some fights on eurosport, or over the internet. imagine that guy strikes with full power orc or a goblin in a face :) hehe knockout:) maybe some feat fighting style offensive(kicks and punches) or defensive(throws and locks) plus ki strike,lawful strike,magic strike,+5:)flurry of knees and elbows:)))yeah monk rulezz!!!!
InkBlot 08-03-07, 01:36 AM	Get your hands on the Tome Of Battle. Look at the Swordsage. Look at Superior Unarmed Strike. Never play a monk using the Monk class ever again. Swordsages are a lot like Monks, except that their fighting styles are completely customizable, their abilities work well together, and they're more fun to play. Despite the name, Swordsages are not particularly dependant on swords (they excell at whatever fighting style you want, from juijitsu to karate to european fencing to pankration).
constanzza 08-03-07, 03:04 AM	wwwoooowwww, you've heard of pankration?where?i have been on a first european games for non-olympics sports.i took place there in 2 disciplines, sport sambo and pankration in sambo im 5th and in pankration im 7th ok, i'll try to find that book somewhere.thanx
Kouk 08-03-07, 03:34 AM	wwwoooowwww, you've heard of pankration?where?i have been on a first european games for non-olympics sports.i took place there in 2 disciplines, sport sambo and pankration in sambo im 5th and in pankration im 7th ok, i'll try to find that book somewhere.thanx Note: There are no "real world" martial arts styles of any sort presented in Tome of Battle - just a few feats perhaps - and no disciplines in the martial arts sense, just a new system of basically "melee magic" with different "schools".
InkBlot 08-03-07, 11:00 AM	There are "real world" martial arts styles presented in Tome Of Battle. It's just not explicit about it. It gives you all the strikes, stances, boosts, and counters you need to faithfully translate a shockingly wide variety real-world fighting styles into D&D. See the Tome Of Battle Fighting Styles (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=846396) thread for more information.
Kouk 08-03-07, 02:10 PM	Eh... which ones makes you become blurry? Makes you able to have flaming fists? Let's you ignore the hardness of metal? Maybe if you want to extrapolate and "fantasticize" martial arts... but really I don't remember any maneuvers that just screamed to me, "Oh, yeah I did that in Karate class." Maybe with a few exceptions with that sun style.
TorgSmackie 08-03-07, 02:59 PM	Eh... which ones makes you become blurry? Makes you able to have flaming fists? Let's you ignore the hardness of metal? Wing chun, muay thai, and shaolin iron palm training.
InkBlot 08-03-07, 04:22 PM	Eh... which ones makes you become blurry? Makes you able to have flaming fists? Let's you ignore the hardness of metal? First off, read the thread. Second, you can just choose not to take those maneuvers. Just like a monk can just choose not to take the feats Fiery Fists, Cloak Dance, and Water Splitting Stone. Third, only two out of the nine disciplines have anything supernatural. The other seven involve nothing of that sort. Forth, monks already get the ability to bypass several kinds of damage reduction and hardness (ki strike adamantine). So if that's your beef than take it up with the monk class. Or just don't take those maneuvers! There's only like 6 of them!
Salla 08-03-07, 06:50 PM	Whatever 'style' you want to specialize in, take feats that represent that style. It's that simple. Taking the feat Versatile Unarmed Strike (PHB2) lets you do punches (bludgeoning), chops (slashing), or spear-hand (piercing) maneuvers. Improved Trip gives you judo-like abilities. Improved Grapple is wrestling. And so forth, and so on. Everything else is flavor. It does bear noting that, since D&D worlds are, at no point, actually part of the real world's history, you can't necessarily say that you're studying a real-world style, because it needn't have existed in the D&D world history.
InkBlot 08-03-07, 10:11 PM	It does bear noting that, since D&D worlds are, at no point, actually part of the real world's history, you can't necessarily say that you're studying a real-world style, because it needn't have existed in the D&D world history. Depends on the setting. Alternate history games, and games that cross D&D and D20 Modern, might not be the most common kind, but they aren't hard to come by either. I myself have run a game set in an alternate-history colonial New England in the year 1555, with dwarves, wizards, orcs, elves, etc.. In my game it would have been entirely appropriate to say your monk was trained in the Shaolin monastery, but was captured by pirates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaolin_kung_fu#Pirates) and found the adventuring life suitable. But yes, a monk from Eberron would be more suited to practicing Tashalantora than Shaolin Kung Fu.
HuManBing 08-04-07, 01:44 PM	I'm thinking of buffing monks a bit by allowing them to progress in ONE single Tome of Battle discipline. The rate of progression would be like a cleric - i.e. you get access to Martial Maneuver level X when you reach monk level (2X - 1). This also allows you access to ALL the maneuvers but you can only stay within one school. This will make Monks a bit more powerful but I happen to think they're a little underpowered as is.
InkBlot 08-04-07, 02:35 PM	The rate of progression would be like a cleric - i.e. you get access to Martial Maneuver level X when you reach monk level (2X - 1). This is the normal progression for anybody with a full initiator level (instead of half initiator level, like all non-martial-adept classes). Just give this variant monk a full initiator level and you don't have to specify. Giving monks all the maneuvers of one discipline is broken. In a single discipline there are as many, or more, maneuvers than a Swordsage can know (depending on the discipline). If you were going to take away nearly all of the Monk's class feature in exchange, then it might be balanced. But then you would be playing a Swordsage with access to just one discipline. It also runs counter to the idea of customization. Each discipline has a narrow focus, but at the same time there are always going to be some maneuvers in each discipline that are just wrong for the character in question. What if you want to make a monk who is a master of defense, and can heal himself or others by channeling aggressive ki? You'd pick the Devoted Spirit discipline, right? But the Devoted Spirit discipline also contains maneuvers that specifically use shields, and deal heavily with alignments and divinity. You'd be far better off just letting Monks choose Martial Study and Martial Stance for their bonus feats, and giving them a full initiator level.