Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kurama Youko 03-28-07, 06:51 PM	Well like the title says, if a Human Warblade who has the Giant Stance going and has monkey grip with a orges greatsword what is the damage out come? Is it 4d6 or does it remain 3d6?
Nezkrul 03-28-07, 07:37 PM	both the feat and the stance refer to your actual size for their outcome. however, I think they would still work together because the stance assumes you are using a weapon sized for yourself. So yes, 4d6 with a large greatsword.
Cyderakk 04-01-07, 12:11 PM	what book is giant stance from????
somethings90 04-01-07, 03:03 PM	what book is giant stance from???? I think it is from Tome of Battle.
Yadot 04-01-07, 03:49 PM	Does the wording of the stance say that your damage is one size larger than yourself, or just one size larger?
Dragonteuthis 04-01-07, 04:07 PM	Giant's Stance is a level 5 Stone Dragon stance from page 83 of Tome of Battle. I will quote the relevant part of the text. While you are in this stance, you deal damage as if you were one size larger than normal, to a maximum of Large. This benefit improves your weapon and unarmed strike damage. The wording is vague enough that I'm going to say there is no single "correct" ruling. Ask your DM.
ravenshrike 04-01-07, 08:26 PM	It treats you as being one size larger. Since if you were large and took monkeygrip your damage would be 4d6, yes it applies. Monkeygrip does not treat you as larger, it just lets you wield a larger weapon at a -2 penalty rather than -4
Weab 04-01-07, 11:57 PM	This is the problem I have with it. you deal damage as if you were one size larger than normal, to a maximum of Large. highlighted for emphasis. I'm assuming you are using monkeygrip first, to use a large weapon with the -2. Then you use giant's stance...but you cant go bigger than large, so it stays as large damage. Now, assuming you used giant's stance first...you could use the big sword as if you were large, but monkey grip doesn't make the sword bigger. so its still a large sword, being used as if you were large. I'd say best case scenario here, you lose the -2 penalty, because you no longer have to use monkey grip. there's no viable reading to let you go bigger than large here, because the text specifically prevents it. Now, if you were to get a weapon 1 size larger, you'd be able to monkey grip that at a -2 if you were already being treated as large. that would make sense. but then you'd hafta carry around this huge weapon, and never use it unless you were in giant's stance. hope that helps.
Frugal 04-02-07, 09:16 AM	Now, if you were to get a weapon 1 size larger, you'd be able to monkey grip that at a -2 if you were already being treated as large. that would make sense. but then you'd hafta carry around this huge weapon, and never use it unless you were in giant's stance. I disagree, it doesn't change you to size large, it allows you to deal damage as if you were 1 size larger than normal (max large). You're still a medium sized creature so you can't then use monkey grip to wield a huge weapon (since monkey grip only allows you to wield a weapon 1 size larger than you are).
ravenshrike 04-02-07, 09:39 AM	This is the problem I have with it. highlighted for emphasis. I'm assuming you are using monkeygrip first, to use a large weapon with the -2. Then you use giant's stance...but you cant go bigger than large, so it stays as large damage. Now, assuming you used giant's stance first...you could use the big sword as if you were large, but monkey grip doesn't make the sword bigger. so its still a large sword, being used as if you were large. I'd say best case scenario here, you lose the -2 penalty, because you no longer have to use monkey grip. there's no viable reading to let you go bigger than large here, because the text specifically prevents it. Now, if you were to get a weapon 1 size larger, you'd be able to monkey grip that at a -2 if you were already being treated as large. that would make sense. but then you'd hafta carry around this huge weapon, and never use it unless you were in giant's stance. hope that helps. YOU. Not, you and your possessions.
Spikes01k 04-02-07, 10:06 AM	While you are in this stance, you deal damage as if you were one size larger than normal, to a maximum of Large. This benefit improves your weapon and unarmed strike damage. I think that this makes it obvious that monkey grip and this stance should work! You would be like a large size creature weielding a huge weapon. The highlighted texts seems to clearly marked as a deterrent from combining the stance with magical means to increase size. So you couldn't be size large, wielding a huge weapon but acting like your size huge wielding an even bigger weapon.
Frugal 04-02-07, 11:39 AM	I think that this makes it obvious that monkey grip and this stance should work! You would be like a large size creature weielding a huge weapon. The highlighted texts seems to clearly marked as a deterrent from combining the stance with magical means to increase size. So you couldn't be size large, wielding a huge weapon but acting like your size huge wielding an even bigger weapon. I'm still not too familiar with ToB but from the quote that was posted it doesn't increase your size or your possessions at all. The quote just said it increases your damage as if you were one size larger than normal (max large). So clearly you're still a medium creature dealing damage as a large creature. Now the question is whether you look at it as you're a medium creature wielding a large weapon and are now treated as a large creature wielding a large weapon (for damage purposes). This would be assuming your weapon size is absolute. Now on the other hand, is the weapon size relative? You're a medium creature with a weapon 1 size category larger. If you're now treated as large (for damage) does that mean you're treated as having a weapon 1 size larger (huge)? I'd have to read the exact wording of the complete feat to do that and I'm away from my books right now.
Conlan 04-02-07, 02:35 PM	Edit: Yeah, I never thought about that. Monkey Grip only allows you to wield a larger weapon and Giant's Stance has the limit of dealing damage as size Large, so the answer is no. 3d6 it is.
ThePope 04-02-07, 05:47 PM	Edit: Yeah, I never thought about that. Monkey Grip only allows you to wield a larger weapon and Giant's Stance has the limit of dealing damage as size Large, so the answer is no. 3d6 it is. ah but Giant's Stance doesn't have a limit on making your damage size bigger per say... it has a limit on how far it would increase your size... so it doesn't matter if you are using a colossal greatclub (danged if i know how) you're still dealing damage as a medium sized character... therefore the stance will add a damage category.
Frugal 04-02-07, 06:53 PM	ah but Giant's Stance doesn't have a limit on making your damage size bigger per say... it has a limit on how far it would increase your size... so it doesn't matter if you are using a colossal greatclub (danged if i know how) you're still dealing damage as a medium sized character... therefore the stance will add a damage category. But it doesn't increase your size, that's the thing. Nor does it say it increases you damage by 1 size category, it says that you deal damage as if you were 1 size category larger up to a maximum of large. How that affects things when you're already wielding a large weapon is anyone's guess.