Mosquito's Bite? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mosquito's Bite? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
GrogMcGee
08-06-07, 12:08 PM I don't get it ... mechanically, that is.

Paraphrase:
If you hit and deal damage to a flat-footed foe they don't notice untill the start of your next turn, and act as though you had missed.

Okay, so what's the point. Are they flat-footed for any AoO they might provoke durring their turn? What's this wierdness of acting as though you missed? Mechanically this makes no freakin' sense. As far as I can tell it does absolutly nothing other then add some flavour to your sneak attack.
foxtail
08-06-07, 12:45 PM Like a lot of stuff in Scoundrel, it's for deception's sake. You could strike from where the enemy can't see, then move away and blame the wound on one of his allies next turn. Or, you can use it to make the enemy think you're not a threat until it's too late.

So, to answer your question, there are no hard-and-fast numerical bonuses to be gained from using this feat, no; it can be a useful tool, however, when roleplayed correctly.

At the very least, you can use it to mimic classic movie scenes, where the bad guy laughs scornfully at the hero's attack for a few seconds before realizing he's dead. For a theatric player, that'd be worth a feat slot, at least.

Edit: Ooh, a thought... I don't have Oriental Adventures with me, but couldn't this feat be just brutal with Iaijutsu Focus?
GrogMcGee
08-06-07, 01:02 PM Like a lot of stuff in Scoundrel, it's for deception's sake. You could strike from where the enemy can't see, then move away and blame the wound on one of his allies next turn. Or, you can use it to make the enemy think you're not a threat until it's too late.

So, to answer your question, there are no hard-and-fast numerical bonuses to be gained from using this feat, no; it can be a useful tool, however, when roleplayed correctly.

At the very least, you can use it to mimic classic movie scenes, where the bad guy laughs scornfully at the hero's attack for a few seconds before realizing he's dead. For a theatric player, that'd be worth a feat slot, at least.

Edit: Ooh, a thought... I don't have Oriental Adventures with me, but couldn't this feat be just brutal with Iaijutsu Focus?

It's not a feat (thank god), it's a skill trick. ;)

Ummm I'm not sure it would do much for Iaijutsu Focus... sure it would be some awesome flavour ... but not really all that "useful" as far as I can tell.

There's alot of super nice stuff in scoundrel - Skill Trick: Back on your Feet. :eek:
foxtail
08-06-07, 01:07 PM Oh, only a skill trick? Even more worth it, then.
tarkin
08-06-07, 01:20 PM This is helpfull for killing clerics.

Instead of healing themselves, they do something else.

Very worthwhile for a rogue who can do sneak attack damage.
GrogMcGee
08-06-07, 01:36 PM This is helpfull for killing clerics.

Instead of healing themselves, they do something else.

Very worthwhile for a rogue who can do sneak attack damage.

It has no effect on sneak attack. The target merely act as though you had missed. Which might mean the the target doesn't heal themselves. They could be already thinking, "I should heal."

However, that appears to be the only benifit. That and yummy flavour.

It just seems highly DM fiat that controls what it actually does to the target.
foxtail
08-06-07, 02:12 PM It has no effect on sneak attack. The target merely act as though you had missed. Which might mean the the target doesn't heal themselves. They could be already thinking, "I should heal."

However, that appears to be the only benifit. That and yummy flavour.

It just seems highly DM fiat that controls what it actually does to the target.

No, it doesn't affect damage dealt or conditions inflicted by sneak attack, which seems to be what you're fixated on (seeing as you ignore everything else). But a character who has sneak attack has a lot of damage that they can conceal by using this trick. Which can be extremely useful with the right applications, as we've stated above.
ShinAkuma2
08-06-07, 02:21 PM It has no effect on sneak attack. The target merely act as though you had missed. Which might mean the the target doesn't heal themselves. They could be already thinking, "I should heal."

Why should a cleric that has, as far as he knows, taken no damage want to heal himself? Unless other characters are attacking him as well, or this is an outside case where the cleric is flat-footed in the middle of a battle and already has damage, there's no reason for a Cleric to heal himself when he thinks he hasn't been hit.
tarkin
08-06-07, 02:30 PM As others implied, when I stated that:

Very worthwhile for a rogue who can do sneak attack damage

I meant the following:

Round 1, High Init: Rogue goes first. Rogue sneak attacks cleric. Cleric loses 80% of his hitpoints. Cleric does not know this.

Round1, low Init: Cleric, thinking he is feeling good, casts a Prayer spell, granting a nice simple +1 to all his allies and a -1 to his enemies. Too bad he only has 10 hitpoints left and did not know it. If he did know it, he would cast Cure Serious Wounds on himself.

Round 2, high Init: Rogue kills cleric with a simply, non-sneak attack sword strike.

Anyone that has fought clerics will tell you it can be VERY annoying when they keep healing themselves of all that damage you worked so hard to do to them.
GrogMcGee
08-06-07, 03:02 PM Thanks for the responses.

I wasn't aiming to rag on the ability ... It just seemed like it might be doing something other than the "don't notice".

And I do see the nastyness of it against the cleric or other high powered healer.

Thanks for the clerifications.
DM Zoc
08-06-07, 03:08 PM It's also useful to avoid grabbing (for lack of a better term) aggro. Unless there are other factors, many combatants will try to kill the person who does the most damage (while ignoring the people who constantly whiff).
Sleepwalker13666
08-06-07, 03:13 PM Check out the veiled dancer PrC, mosquitoes bite is one of the prereqs for that class, if you fail your save versus their beguiling dance you don't even notice they have a knife in their hand, with mosquitoes bite you also wont know when they stick said knife in your kidneys.
Oakes
08-07-07, 05:02 PM Two sneak attacks for the price of one on an unaware target is a good example. If you "miss" an attack while somehow invisible and sneaking, who's to say your target even notices?

Sentinel A has 50 HP. Rogue A deals 7d6+5 damage total, not enough to down Sentinel A in one round before he raises the alarm. Using Mosquito's Bite and with a little help from his Wizard friend, Rogue A deals an average of 52 damage before Sentinel A realizes he's under attack, downing him before he can do a thing.

Plus, the flavor -is- worth a skill trick.
DM Zoc
08-07-07, 06:55 PM Two sneak attacks for the price of one on an unaware target is a good example. If you "miss" an attack while somehow invisible and sneaking, who's to say your target even notices?

It says right in the text that the target treats it as though you've attacked and missed. I'm almost certain that the guard would notice that.
GrogMcGee
08-07-07, 10:16 PM It says right in the text that the target treats it as though you've attacked and missed. I'm almost certain that the guard would notice that.

In the above example the rogue is invisible. So I think roll playwise we could say that the guard doesn't even notice that he was just stabbed in the side.

My logic is as follows:
Rogue is invisble. So he can seak up on the guard (remarkably) easily. Using mosquito bite the gaurd doesn't even notice that he's been stabbed. So his action is going to be nothing. He has no reason to think he's been attacked since he never saw* any attacker in the first place. In this case I think we can safely say that our rogue is effectively getting two suprise rounds.

*I'm assuming that the sneaky rogue is not going to be standing in plane view of the guard when he becomes visable again (assuming where using invisiblity and not greater invisibility).

Or at least that's how it appears to me.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GrogMcGee 08-06-07, 12:08 PM	I don't get it ... mechanically, that is. Paraphrase: If you hit and deal damage to a flat-footed foe they don't notice untill the start of your next turn, and act as though you had missed. Okay, so what's the point. Are they flat-footed for any AoO they might provoke durring their turn? What's this wierdness of acting as though you missed? Mechanically this makes no freakin' sense. As far as I can tell it does absolutly nothing other then add some flavour to your sneak attack.
foxtail 08-06-07, 12:45 PM	Like a lot of stuff in Scoundrel, it's for deception's sake. You could strike from where the enemy can't see, then move away and blame the wound on one of his allies next turn. Or, you can use it to make the enemy think you're not a threat until it's too late. So, to answer your question, there are no hard-and-fast numerical bonuses to be gained from using this feat, no; it can be a useful tool, however, when roleplayed correctly. At the very least, you can use it to mimic classic movie scenes, where the bad guy laughs scornfully at the hero's attack for a few seconds before realizing he's dead. For a theatric player, that'd be worth a feat slot, at least. Edit: Ooh, a thought... I don't have Oriental Adventures with me, but couldn't this feat be just brutal with Iaijutsu Focus?
GrogMcGee 08-06-07, 01:02 PM	Like a lot of stuff in Scoundrel, it's for deception's sake. You could strike from where the enemy can't see, then move away and blame the wound on one of his allies next turn. Or, you can use it to make the enemy think you're not a threat until it's too late. So, to answer your question, there are no hard-and-fast numerical bonuses to be gained from using this feat, no; it can be a useful tool, however, when roleplayed correctly. At the very least, you can use it to mimic classic movie scenes, where the bad guy laughs scornfully at the hero's attack for a few seconds before realizing he's dead. For a theatric player, that'd be worth a feat slot, at least. Edit: Ooh, a thought... I don't have Oriental Adventures with me, but couldn't this feat be just brutal with Iaijutsu Focus? It's not a feat (thank god), it's a skill trick. ;) Ummm I'm not sure it would do much for Iaijutsu Focus... sure it would be some awesome flavour ... but not really all that "useful" as far as I can tell. There's alot of super nice stuff in scoundrel - Skill Trick: Back on your Feet. :eek:
foxtail 08-06-07, 01:07 PM	Oh, only a skill trick? Even more worth it, then.
tarkin 08-06-07, 01:20 PM	This is helpfull for killing clerics. Instead of healing themselves, they do something else. Very worthwhile for a rogue who can do sneak attack damage.
GrogMcGee 08-06-07, 01:36 PM	This is helpfull for killing clerics. Instead of healing themselves, they do something else. Very worthwhile for a rogue who can do sneak attack damage. It has no effect on sneak attack. The target merely act as though you had missed. Which might mean the the target doesn't heal themselves. They could be already thinking, "I should heal." However, that appears to be the only benifit. That and yummy flavour. It just seems highly DM fiat that controls what it actually does to the target.
foxtail 08-06-07, 02:12 PM	It has no effect on sneak attack. The target merely act as though you had missed. Which might mean the the target doesn't heal themselves. They could be already thinking, "I should heal." However, that appears to be the only benifit. That and yummy flavour. It just seems highly DM fiat that controls what it actually does to the target. No, it doesn't affect damage dealt or conditions inflicted by sneak attack, which seems to be what you're fixated on (seeing as you ignore everything else). But a character who has sneak attack has a lot of damage that they can conceal by using this trick. Which can be extremely useful with the right applications, as we've stated above.
ShinAkuma2 08-06-07, 02:21 PM	It has no effect on sneak attack. The target merely act as though you had missed. Which might mean the the target doesn't heal themselves. They could be already thinking, "I should heal." Why should a cleric that has, as far as he knows, taken no damage want to heal himself? Unless other characters are attacking him as well, or this is an outside case where the cleric is flat-footed in the middle of a battle and already has damage, there's no reason for a Cleric to heal himself when he thinks he hasn't been hit.
tarkin 08-06-07, 02:30 PM	As others implied, when I stated that: Very worthwhile for a rogue who can do sneak attack damage I meant the following: Round 1, High Init: Rogue goes first. Rogue sneak attacks cleric. Cleric loses 80% of his hitpoints. Cleric does not know this. Round1, low Init: Cleric, thinking he is feeling good, casts a Prayer spell, granting a nice simple +1 to all his allies and a -1 to his enemies. Too bad he only has 10 hitpoints left and did not know it. If he did know it, he would cast Cure Serious Wounds on himself. Round 2, high Init: Rogue kills cleric with a simply, non-sneak attack sword strike. Anyone that has fought clerics will tell you it can be VERY annoying when they keep healing themselves of all that damage you worked so hard to do to them.
GrogMcGee 08-06-07, 03:02 PM	Thanks for the responses. I wasn't aiming to rag on the ability ... It just seemed like it might be doing something other than the "don't notice". And I do see the nastyness of it against the cleric or other high powered healer. Thanks for the clerifications.
DM Zoc 08-06-07, 03:08 PM	It's also useful to avoid grabbing (for lack of a better term) aggro. Unless there are other factors, many combatants will try to kill the person who does the most damage (while ignoring the people who constantly whiff).
Sleepwalker13666 08-06-07, 03:13 PM	Check out the veiled dancer PrC, mosquitoes bite is one of the prereqs for that class, if you fail your save versus their beguiling dance you don't even notice they have a knife in their hand, with mosquitoes bite you also wont know when they stick said knife in your kidneys.
Oakes 08-07-07, 05:02 PM	Two sneak attacks for the price of one on an unaware target is a good example. If you "miss" an attack while somehow invisible and sneaking, who's to say your target even notices? Sentinel A has 50 HP. Rogue A deals 7d6+5 damage total, not enough to down Sentinel A in one round before he raises the alarm. Using Mosquito's Bite and with a little help from his Wizard friend, Rogue A deals an average of 52 damage before Sentinel A realizes he's under attack, downing him before he can do a thing. Plus, the flavor -is- worth a skill trick.
DM Zoc 08-07-07, 06:55 PM	Two sneak attacks for the price of one on an unaware target is a good example. If you "miss" an attack while somehow invisible and sneaking, who's to say your target even notices? It says right in the text that the target treats it as though you've attacked and missed. I'm almost certain that the guard would notice that.
GrogMcGee 08-07-07, 10:16 PM	It says right in the text that the target treats it as though you've attacked and missed. I'm almost certain that the guard would notice that. In the above example the rogue is invisible. So I think roll playwise we could say that the guard doesn't even notice that he was just stabbed in the side. My logic is as follows: Rogue is invisble. So he can seak up on the guard (remarkably) easily. Using mosquito bite the gaurd doesn't even notice that he's been stabbed. So his action is going to be nothing. He has no reason to think he's been attacked since he never saw* any attacker in the first place. In this case I think we can safely say that our rogue is effectively getting two suprise rounds. *I'm assuming that the sneaky rogue is not going to be standing in plane view of the guard when he becomes visable again (assuming where using invisiblity and not greater invisibility). Or at least that's how it appears to me.