Most important feat [Archive] - Wizards Community

Most important feat [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Screams_of_the_Oak
04-04-07, 01:33 PM Just out of curiousity, what is in your opinion the best all around feat. This can be for many different reasons, such as versatility, common use, or just plain righteousness.

After thinking about it, the most important feat I've seen is without a doubt 'weapon finesse'. There are so many classes which rely on that attack bonus, giving them the ability to focus in dex instead of taking alternative means to rely on strength (or any other attribute) to hit an enemy.
Steevo
04-04-07, 02:30 PM Well Combat Reflexes is a perennial favourite of mine, although my all time best feat, I'd have to say, is Dodge. Yes, dodge. It's saved more than one of my characters from a fatal blow at a critical juncture.
tarkin
04-04-07, 02:32 PM I agree that Combat Reflexes is one of the best feats.

It is pretty essential for any AoO related builds, including all reach fighters. And it has no pre-reqs, being usefull even at 1st level.
Nexilis
04-04-07, 02:38 PM In my opinion Improved Initiative is one of, if not the best feat there is. Dodge may be good, but if you can act before the bad guy you can kill them before they can hit hit you.

-Nex
jadehawk
04-04-07, 02:47 PM The aforementioned feats are all good ones, particularly for dex fighters. I would suggest though that Power Attack is one of the most useful feats out there, particularly for strength fighters. Besides being able to drop attack bonuses for damage on a 2:1 ratio when two-handing, it is a prerequisite to a slew of impressive feats, most notably cleave and great cleave.

I don't know how many times I've seen an enemy tripped on its butt and wishing I had a power attacking massive damage character so I could keep him there.

For the same reason, I would also consider Combat Expertise, less for its actual purpose (as it is limited to 5 points) but more for its feat tree, as it opens up all sorts of improved combat actions.
tarkin
04-04-07, 04:21 PM Funny, I always considered Power Attack to be the one of the least usefull feats out there.

While it can actually be helpfull if played correctly, I have seen far more players lower their average damage than I have seen them raise it.

Some people just can't do math.
Zodiaq7
04-04-07, 04:26 PM I agree with the Combat expertise feat tree sentiment. The feats that pop up most on my character sheets are improved initiative, open minded(I loves my skills :) ), and, cue eyerolls here, either Lightning Reflexes or Iron Will. I also agree that odge, despite its nay-sayers, has been indispensable, plus it gives entry to nice feat tree of it's own.

On power attack, again it's not the feat on its own, it's what comes after i.e. Improved Bull Rush and Improved Sunder.
jadehawk
04-04-07, 04:52 PM Funny, I always considered Power Attack to be the one of the least usefull feats out there.

While it can actually be helpfull if played correctly, I have seen far more players lower their average damage than I have seen them raise it.

Some people just can't do math.

lol...you are right. Some people do get overzealous with power attack, somehow neglecting that if you miss, you don't get to deal any damage...funny that. To be honest, when I take power attack it is for three reasons, and I think these three reasons are why I think it is such an awesome feat:

1) It has the potential to do incredible damage when you are (nearly) ensured a hit (low AC creatures like oozes, inanimate objects, disabled/held opponents, true striking, or simply a cumulation of situational modifiers).

2) It is a prerequisite to some impressive feats, particularly cleave and great cleave. As well it is a prerequisite to certain bashing prestige classes.

3) when times are dire and a few points of damage mean the difference it is always there as an option (key word option), and it is customizable. If you only need a few extra points of damage, you can reduce your attack by 2 and with proper handedness get 4 more points of damage. But if you are stuck in a hairy situation you can drop it full, hail mary, and hope for that 20.
MCage
04-04-07, 06:27 PM For spell casting sorcerers Rapid Metamagic, allows them to use metamagic at normal casting times (yay i can use quicken now)
OravennasBrother
04-04-07, 06:39 PM Funny, I always considered Power Attack to be the one of the least usefull feats out there.
Funny, but every melee Fighter build I have uses Power Attack. Then again I used to Teach Math.

Overall Iron will seems my favorite regardless of class (except perhaps CoDzilla which I never play) as Will saves are such "miss it and you're out of the fight" problems.
Aminvelos
04-04-07, 06:40 PM Leadership, hands down.

Magic, melee, or ranged it's useful.

Nothing like having a backup wizard that makes you magical items.
Roland the Crownbreaker
04-04-07, 06:41 PM Power Attack: In the hands of someone who can do the math, it can be devastating. Also impressive is when it is backed up by the proper spells, such as True Strike, Rhino Rush, and Find the Breach.

Weapon Finesse: Every class that either has a higher premium on dexterity than str, or has to choose between them for various reasons seems to pick up this feat.

Improved Intitiative: Obvious

Combat Reflexes: Used by every trip build out there.

And the only feat in the PHB I have ever seen banned, Natural Spell. This feat enables the druid to go from as class that can fill almost any role to one that can fill almost every role.
Zuractai
04-04-07, 11:42 PM Spellfire Wielder is the most powerful Feat, period.
Lotus Crane
04-04-07, 11:47 PM Leadership, hands down.
Indeed. No other single feat literally gives you the power of effectively a second character's abilities - and perhaps more importantly, an additional set of actions per round.
nastynate
04-05-07, 12:13 AM Importance depends upon the character class and/or build.

Feats you'd be crazy not to take
Divine Metamagic: busted
Natural Spell: busted
Leadership: busted

Feats that nobody of a certain class should go without
Rapid Metamagic: no brainer for spontaneous arcane casters
Craven: no brainer for any sneak attack build
Martial Study (moment of perfect mind): no brainer for anyone with weak Will saves
Psionic Meditation: no brainer for any psionic class

Feats that are excellent when a character is designed around them
Power Attack: awesome
Combat Reflexes: awesome
Metamagic Song: awesome
Double Wand Wielder: awesome
Greater Manyshot: awesome
Arcane Strike: awesome
Swift Hunter: awesome

I'm sure there are others of similar quality, but these were the first ones to pop into my head.
FrostHammer
04-05-07, 12:29 AM 1) Natural Spell

2) That feat that lets you switch out some manuevers for others as a full-round action. Also refreshes them so you can immediately use them
Roland the Crownbreaker
04-05-07, 08:23 AM I always tend to forget about leadership due to the nature of the feat. While everything in the game, down to the base classes are "optional", leadership specifically has a section devoted to it. It seems the designers were well aware of the potential for abuse, so much so that they felt the need to remind DM's of rule zero in the feat description.
Karish
04-05-07, 08:36 AM I think the single, absolute best feat is: Cork Soaker.
Qube
04-05-07, 08:45 AM thoughness for level 1 wizard
Aracor
04-05-07, 09:09 AM I'm surprised no one has mentioned quick draw. Of all the feats, that's one of the few that goes up with improved initiative for a feat that ANY class can get an amazing amount of use from.
Tichondrus
04-05-07, 09:16 AM If wizard: Quicken spell.
If anything else: Improved initiative.
planetouched
04-05-07, 09:17 AM I'm surprised no one has mentioned quick draw. Of all the feats, that's one of the few that goes up with improved initiative for a feat that ANY class can get an amazing amount of use from.

Don't forget flick of the wrist skill focus slight of hand and improved unarmed. It's a godsend to ninjas. Suprise!(SS)Win initiative!(SS) Draw a dagger and palm a second(SS), Wait two rounds(SS)
Steely_Dan
04-05-07, 09:22 AM In my opinion Improved Initiative is one of, if not the best feat there is.

Absolutely, because as well know in the higher levels of play: Who goes first, wins.
Azazyll
04-05-07, 09:30 AM As a DM, when I build monsters, I always swap out a feat for improved toughness. makes them take at least one round longer to die. It may not be as good for players, where you don't get huge amounts of HD, but it's certainly better than toughness.
vegetalss4
04-05-07, 01:39 PM clearly Leadership

you can say all the good things you want about improved intiative.

but when i come with more than 100 warriors armed with crossbows, odds are that my team get the fist atteck, and that someone will hit you.:evillaugh
eggplantm
04-05-07, 02:45 PM If you are talking Eberron, there are many feats that I see taken every time by my players

Action Boost: Roll D8 for action points instead of D6's

Action Surge: This is the big one. Spend two action points to take an additional standard action. How can you pass this up? It's like getting the 3.0 haste back.
fascistjesus
04-05-07, 04:36 PM I'm sure that nobody will agree with me, but my favorite feat is companion spellbound from PHB2. Yeah, it's not usable by any class besides the druid or ranger and it's definitely not the most powerful feat, but I really like the flavor. (take a glance if you forgot what that feat does and you own the book, because I'm doing my best to not give away what it is)

Mechanics wise it's fairly unimpressive. If you're that close to your animal companion you can likely walk to it before casting the spell, and if you're sharing a buff, since you have the same initiative you can use the same time to move and stay within five feet (and even walk through allies squares without penalty). The only mechanics advantage is if you're flanking and sharing a buff, or were 50 feet away from your animal companion, moved closer, then cast.

But I like it because you don't have to worry about stuff. You don't think it's odd that you have to stay within five feet the whole 5 hours of your overland movement when sharing Longstrider. You don't have to contemplate why you had to move three steps closer to your companion to use the tree shape spell (heck your branches would intertangle being that close anyway). It's perfectly reasonable that a druid stays close to his companion and share spells (and mechanically, 5 feet is possible) but having it be a little less intimate just feels better to me.

so yeah. I just like the flavor of it, and flavor is just as important to me as crucnching the mechanics.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Screams_of_the_Oak 04-04-07, 01:33 PM	Just out of curiousity, what is in your opinion the best all around feat. This can be for many different reasons, such as versatility, common use, or just plain righteousness. After thinking about it, the most important feat I've seen is without a doubt 'weapon finesse'. There are so many classes which rely on that attack bonus, giving them the ability to focus in dex instead of taking alternative means to rely on strength (or any other attribute) to hit an enemy.
Steevo 04-04-07, 02:30 PM	Well Combat Reflexes is a perennial favourite of mine, although my all time best feat, I'd have to say, is Dodge. Yes, dodge. It's saved more than one of my characters from a fatal blow at a critical juncture.
tarkin 04-04-07, 02:32 PM	I agree that Combat Reflexes is one of the best feats. It is pretty essential for any AoO related builds, including all reach fighters. And it has no pre-reqs, being usefull even at 1st level.
Nexilis 04-04-07, 02:38 PM	In my opinion Improved Initiative is one of, if not the best feat there is. Dodge may be good, but if you can act before the bad guy you can kill them before they can hit hit you. -Nex
jadehawk 04-04-07, 02:47 PM	The aforementioned feats are all good ones, particularly for dex fighters. I would suggest though that Power Attack is one of the most useful feats out there, particularly for strength fighters. Besides being able to drop attack bonuses for damage on a 2:1 ratio when two-handing, it is a prerequisite to a slew of impressive feats, most notably cleave and great cleave. I don't know how many times I've seen an enemy tripped on its butt and wishing I had a power attacking massive damage character so I could keep him there. For the same reason, I would also consider Combat Expertise, less for its actual purpose (as it is limited to 5 points) but more for its feat tree, as it opens up all sorts of improved combat actions.
tarkin 04-04-07, 04:21 PM	Funny, I always considered Power Attack to be the one of the least usefull feats out there. While it can actually be helpfull if played correctly, I have seen far more players lower their average damage than I have seen them raise it. Some people just can't do math.
Zodiaq7 04-04-07, 04:26 PM	I agree with the Combat expertise feat tree sentiment. The feats that pop up most on my character sheets are improved initiative, open minded(I loves my skills :) ), and, cue eyerolls here, either Lightning Reflexes or Iron Will. I also agree that odge, despite its nay-sayers, has been indispensable, plus it gives entry to nice feat tree of it's own. On power attack, again it's not the feat on its own, it's what comes after i.e. Improved Bull Rush and Improved Sunder.
jadehawk 04-04-07, 04:52 PM	Funny, I always considered Power Attack to be the one of the least usefull feats out there. While it can actually be helpfull if played correctly, I have seen far more players lower their average damage than I have seen them raise it. Some people just can't do math. lol...you are right. Some people do get overzealous with power attack, somehow neglecting that if you miss, you don't get to deal any damage...funny that. To be honest, when I take power attack it is for three reasons, and I think these three reasons are why I think it is such an awesome feat: 1) It has the potential to do incredible damage when you are (nearly) ensured a hit (low AC creatures like oozes, inanimate objects, disabled/held opponents, true striking, or simply a cumulation of situational modifiers). 2) It is a prerequisite to some impressive feats, particularly cleave and great cleave. As well it is a prerequisite to certain bashing prestige classes. 3) when times are dire and a few points of damage mean the difference it is always there as an option (key word option), and it is customizable. If you only need a few extra points of damage, you can reduce your attack by 2 and with proper handedness get 4 more points of damage. But if you are stuck in a hairy situation you can drop it full, hail mary, and hope for that 20.
MCage 04-04-07, 06:27 PM	For spell casting sorcerers Rapid Metamagic, allows them to use metamagic at normal casting times (yay i can use quicken now)
OravennasBrother 04-04-07, 06:39 PM	Funny, I always considered Power Attack to be the one of the least usefull feats out there. Funny, but every melee Fighter build I have uses Power Attack. Then again I used to Teach Math. Overall Iron will seems my favorite regardless of class (except perhaps CoDzilla which I never play) as Will saves are such "miss it and you're out of the fight" problems.
Aminvelos 04-04-07, 06:40 PM	Leadership, hands down. Magic, melee, or ranged it's useful. Nothing like having a backup wizard that makes you magical items.
Roland the Crownbreaker 04-04-07, 06:41 PM	Power Attack: In the hands of someone who can do the math, it can be devastating. Also impressive is when it is backed up by the proper spells, such as True Strike, Rhino Rush, and Find the Breach. Weapon Finesse: Every class that either has a higher premium on dexterity than str, or has to choose between them for various reasons seems to pick up this feat. Improved Intitiative: Obvious Combat Reflexes: Used by every trip build out there. And the only feat in the PHB I have ever seen banned, Natural Spell. This feat enables the druid to go from as class that can fill almost any role to one that can fill almost every role.
Zuractai 04-04-07, 11:42 PM	Spellfire Wielder is the most powerful Feat, period.
Lotus Crane 04-04-07, 11:47 PM	Leadership, hands down. Indeed. No other single feat literally gives you the power of effectively a second character's abilities - and perhaps more importantly, an additional set of actions per round.
nastynate 04-05-07, 12:13 AM	Importance depends upon the character class and/or build. Feats you'd be crazy not to take Divine Metamagic: busted Natural Spell: busted Leadership: busted Feats that nobody of a certain class should go without Rapid Metamagic: no brainer for spontaneous arcane casters Craven: no brainer for any sneak attack build Martial Study (moment of perfect mind): no brainer for anyone with weak Will saves Psionic Meditation: no brainer for any psionic class Feats that are excellent when a character is designed around them Power Attack: awesome Combat Reflexes: awesome Metamagic Song: awesome Double Wand Wielder: awesome Greater Manyshot: awesome Arcane Strike: awesome Swift Hunter: awesome I'm sure there are others of similar quality, but these were the first ones to pop into my head.
FrostHammer 04-05-07, 12:29 AM	1) Natural Spell 2) That feat that lets you switch out some manuevers for others as a full-round action. Also refreshes them so you can immediately use them
Roland the Crownbreaker 04-05-07, 08:23 AM	I always tend to forget about leadership due to the nature of the feat. While everything in the game, down to the base classes are "optional", leadership specifically has a section devoted to it. It seems the designers were well aware of the potential for abuse, so much so that they felt the need to remind DM's of rule zero in the feat description.
Karish 04-05-07, 08:36 AM	I think the single, absolute best feat is: Cork Soaker.
Qube 04-05-07, 08:45 AM	thoughness for level 1 wizard
Aracor 04-05-07, 09:09 AM	I'm surprised no one has mentioned quick draw. Of all the feats, that's one of the few that goes up with improved initiative for a feat that ANY class can get an amazing amount of use from.
Tichondrus 04-05-07, 09:16 AM	If wizard: Quicken spell. If anything else: Improved initiative.
planetouched 04-05-07, 09:17 AM	I'm surprised no one has mentioned quick draw. Of all the feats, that's one of the few that goes up with improved initiative for a feat that ANY class can get an amazing amount of use from. Don't forget flick of the wrist skill focus slight of hand and improved unarmed. It's a godsend to ninjas. Suprise!(SS)Win initiative!(SS) Draw a dagger and palm a second(SS), Wait two rounds(SS)
Steely_Dan 04-05-07, 09:22 AM	In my opinion Improved Initiative is one of, if not the best feat there is. Absolutely, because as well know in the higher levels of play: Who goes first, wins.
Azazyll 04-05-07, 09:30 AM	As a DM, when I build monsters, I always swap out a feat for improved toughness. makes them take at least one round longer to die. It may not be as good for players, where you don't get huge amounts of HD, but it's certainly better than toughness.
vegetalss4 04-05-07, 01:39 PM	clearly Leadership you can say all the good things you want about improved intiative. but when i come with more than 100 warriors armed with crossbows, odds are that my team get the fist atteck, and that someone will hit you.:evillaugh
eggplantm 04-05-07, 02:45 PM	If you are talking Eberron, there are many feats that I see taken every time by my players Action Boost: Roll D8 for action points instead of D6's Action Surge: This is the big one. Spend two action points to take an additional standard action. How can you pass this up? It's like getting the 3.0 haste back.
fascistjesus 04-05-07, 04:36 PM	I'm sure that nobody will agree with me, but my favorite feat is companion spellbound from PHB2. Yeah, it's not usable by any class besides the druid or ranger and it's definitely not the most powerful feat, but I really like the flavor. (take a glance if you forgot what that feat does and you own the book, because I'm doing my best to not give away what it is) Mechanics wise it's fairly unimpressive. If you're that close to your animal companion you can likely walk to it before casting the spell, and if you're sharing a buff, since you have the same initiative you can use the same time to move and stay within five feet (and even walk through allies squares without penalty). The only mechanics advantage is if you're flanking and sharing a buff, or were 50 feet away from your animal companion, moved closer, then cast. But I like it because you don't have to worry about stuff. You don't think it's odd that you have to stay within five feet the whole 5 hours of your overland movement when sharing Longstrider. You don't have to contemplate why you had to move three steps closer to your companion to use the tree shape spell (heck your branches would intertangle being that close anyway). It's perfectly reasonable that a druid stays close to his companion and share spells (and mechanically, 5 feet is possible) but having it be a little less intimate just feels better to me. so yeah. I just like the flavor of it, and flavor is just as important to me as crucnching the mechanics.