Mount Cohort (for a palidin) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mount Cohort (for a palidin) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
cthulhuspawn82
04-13-08, 12:53 AM I am a level 10 paladin and want to take the leadership feat to get a Pegasus cohort to use as my special mount. The Pegasus has an ECL of 6 and the special mount abilities add 2 to that making him an ECL 8 cohort, which is what I am allowed has as level 10 character with leadership. So far so good. Here is the question. Does my Pegasus get the full benefits of me being a level 10 paladin, or does he use the reduced level chart for alternate paladin mounts on page 205 of the DMG? Also, when I level up will he level up with me like a normal cohort? If so, will those levels be magical beast HD or can they be character levels like fighter?
Tommyboy
04-13-08, 02:57 AM Cohort and special mount are two different effects, the Pegasus can not be both. As a special mount it would use a reduced level for advancement purposes and would gain magical beast HD. I don't know how it would work as a cohort.
runestar
04-13-08, 03:31 AM It is funny. The pegasus has an int of 10, but this will decrease to just 6 when it becomes a paladin's mount.

I guess just being near a paladin is enough make you dumber...:P
cthulhuspawn82
04-13-08, 03:50 AM I know how the alternate paladin mounts work (that section is easy to understand) but I just cant figure out how using a cohort as a special mount works.

The biggest thing trowing me off is how it says adding special paladin mount abilities to a cohort is worth at least a +2 ECL. What does it mean by "at least"? Can it go higher? They dont explain that in any way.

The only connection I see is that the bonus hit dice for a palidin mount start at +2. Are they saying that the bonus hit dice from being a special paladin mount add to its ECL, and that the the total level of the mount, including bonus hit dice, cant excede an ECL of 2 below me? (cohorts have to be 2 levels below you) If thats how it works it doesnt sound much better (maybe worse) then just taking pegasus as an alternate mount and using the reduced level table on page 205.

Oh, and mount with higher INT than whats on the chart does get dumber, he keeps his score.
Bloodsoul
04-14-08, 05:44 PM Ran into that same problem with the Nightmare Steed Feat; DM allowed me to just give it an Int boost at the same rate as the Str boost.

*checks*

..that Nightmare's smarter than his rider. >_>
JulesCARV
04-15-08, 04:20 AM It's frustrating how this exact course of action is suggested by the DMG on page 200, yet no guidance is given to how it would work in practice.

Okay. Here's how it works as far as I can tell:

First you get a pegasus mount. A pegasus as a paladin mount gains the benefits of a paladins mount at two levels behind a normal mount. Your paladin is level 10, so you would calculate mount benefits as if you were level 8. Well, looking at the table, it looks like that makes no difference whatsoever -- although it will once you gain a level.

Now you want to apply the leadership rules. Caculate ECL: let's see, pegasus gets 4 hit dice and a +2 LA. Bumping the LA by a further 2 as per the rules for paladin cohort mounts on DMG 200, you get to +4 LA. That brings total ECL up to 8. As a level 10 paladin, that's the highest possible level cohort you could have, so your pegasus cohort-mount actually won't be anything special compared to an ordinary pegasus mount.

Personally, I would say that the -2 penalty to leadership from having a "familiar, special mount, or animal companion" does not apply if your special mount and your cohort are one and the same, but that's a DM call.

Once you get to level 11, your cohort-mount could have a cohort ECL (9) exceeding the base ECL of a cohort-mount pegasus (8). At that point, I suppose the pegasus could start to add class levels.

That was my attempt to piece together the rules, but it's all pretty vague. Good luck, cthulhuspawn82.
JulesCARV
04-15-08, 01:18 PM BTW, a more high-powered variant would be to say that the pegasus itself is already "paid for" by the Special Mount class feature, and the level adjustment only applies to things added onto it via leadership. The rules on DMG 200 are excruciatingly vague, but the idea would be something like...

-You get your pegasus for free as part of being a paladin.

-You apply the leadership feat, and get a cohort, applying the cohort feature to your mount. Cohort ECL is considered seperate from paladin's mount, which you receive for free.

-As a 10th level paladin, you (assuming good charisma) get an 8th level cohort. Since you're using a cohort-mount, you apply an LA of +2. That leaves 6 levels. You can then add 6 levels of a character class to the pegasus.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
cthulhuspawn82 04-13-08, 12:53 AM	I am a level 10 paladin and want to take the leadership feat to get a Pegasus cohort to use as my special mount. The Pegasus has an ECL of 6 and the special mount abilities add 2 to that making him an ECL 8 cohort, which is what I am allowed has as level 10 character with leadership. So far so good. Here is the question. Does my Pegasus get the full benefits of me being a level 10 paladin, or does he use the reduced level chart for alternate paladin mounts on page 205 of the DMG? Also, when I level up will he level up with me like a normal cohort? If so, will those levels be magical beast HD or can they be character levels like fighter?
Tommyboy 04-13-08, 02:57 AM	Cohort and special mount are two different effects, the Pegasus can not be both. As a special mount it would use a reduced level for advancement purposes and would gain magical beast HD. I don't know how it would work as a cohort.
runestar 04-13-08, 03:31 AM	It is funny. The pegasus has an int of 10, but this will decrease to just 6 when it becomes a paladin's mount. I guess just being near a paladin is enough make you dumber...:P
cthulhuspawn82 04-13-08, 03:50 AM	I know how the alternate paladin mounts work (that section is easy to understand) but I just cant figure out how using a cohort as a special mount works. The biggest thing trowing me off is how it says adding special paladin mount abilities to a cohort is worth at least a +2 ECL. What does it mean by "at least"? Can it go higher? They dont explain that in any way. The only connection I see is that the bonus hit dice for a palidin mount start at +2. Are they saying that the bonus hit dice from being a special paladin mount add to its ECL, and that the the total level of the mount, including bonus hit dice, cant excede an ECL of 2 below me? (cohorts have to be 2 levels below you) If thats how it works it doesnt sound much better (maybe worse) then just taking pegasus as an alternate mount and using the reduced level table on page 205. Oh, and mount with higher INT than whats on the chart does get dumber, he keeps his score.
Bloodsoul 04-14-08, 05:44 PM	Ran into that same problem with the Nightmare Steed Feat; DM allowed me to just give it an Int boost at the same rate as the Str boost. checks ..that Nightmare's smarter than his rider. >_>
JulesCARV 04-15-08, 04:20 AM	It's frustrating how this exact course of action is suggested by the DMG on page 200, yet no guidance is given to how it would work in practice. Okay. Here's how it works as far as I can tell: First you get a pegasus mount. A pegasus as a paladin mount gains the benefits of a paladins mount at two levels behind a normal mount. Your paladin is level 10, so you would calculate mount benefits as if you were level 8. Well, looking at the table, it looks like that makes no difference whatsoever -- although it will once you gain a level. Now you want to apply the leadership rules. Caculate ECL: let's see, pegasus gets 4 hit dice and a +2 LA. Bumping the LA by a further 2 as per the rules for paladin cohort mounts on DMG 200, you get to +4 LA. That brings total ECL up to 8. As a level 10 paladin, that's the highest possible level cohort you could have, so your pegasus cohort-mount actually won't be anything special compared to an ordinary pegasus mount. Personally, I would say that the -2 penalty to leadership from having a "familiar, special mount, or animal companion" does not apply if your special mount and your cohort are one and the same, but that's a DM call. Once you get to level 11, your cohort-mount could have a cohort ECL (9) exceeding the base ECL of a cohort-mount pegasus (8). At that point, I suppose the pegasus could start to add class levels. That was my attempt to piece together the rules, but it's all pretty vague. Good luck, cthulhuspawn82.
JulesCARV 04-15-08, 01:18 PM	BTW, a more high-powered variant would be to say that the pegasus itself is already "paid for" by the Special Mount class feature, and the level adjustment only applies to things added onto it via leadership. The rules on DMG 200 are excruciatingly vague, but the idea would be something like... -You get your pegasus for free as part of being a paladin. -You apply the leadership feat, and get a cohort, applying the cohort feature to your mount. Cohort ECL is considered seperate from paladin's mount, which you receive for free. -As a 10th level paladin, you (assuming good charisma) get an 8th level cohort. Since you're using a cohort-mount, you apply an LA of +2. That leaves 6 levels. You can then add 6 levels of a character class to the pegasus.