Move + full round attack [Archive] - Wizards Community

Move + full round attack [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Apocolypse_77
10-24-07, 06:36 PM hi, am i crazy or is there a feat, item, spell, or manuever which allows you to move and make a full round action in the same round?
dman11235
10-24-07, 06:48 PM There's the Belt of Battle (MiC) which lets you spend charges to get extra actions in a round, Celerity (sp. could be a different version of the word) is a spell that grants a move action (I think, not sure), the spell Lion's Pounce lets you make a full atttack on a charge, as does Psionic Lion's Pounce, I'm sure there's a maneuver (I'm not that familiar with ToB), and if there's a feat it's a big feat that has lot's of requirements and only kick in at certain times. The epic feat Dire Charge only works in the first round, for instance.
Hsien
10-24-07, 06:52 PM Dervish PrC has the Dervish Dance

Several feats that let you take more attacks during a spring attack.
Orenmir
10-24-07, 07:05 PM Psionic power -- Hustle. Gives you an extra move action.
vorpo
10-24-07, 08:10 PM Psionic power -- Hustle. Gives you an extra move action.

Which is the psionic form of haste.
InkBlot
10-24-07, 08:27 PM Not really. There is no psionic haste. There's no power which gives you an extra attack, +1 to a few things, and +30 movement (heck, there's just plain no power that gives you +30 movement).

Powers:
Hustle - Extra move action
Psionic Lion's Charge - make a full attack at the end of a charge

Maneuvers:
Quicksilver Motion - free move action
Sudden Leap - free movement, limited by your jump check
Pouncing Charge - make a full attack at the end of a charge

There are also many maneuvers which allow you to make more than one attack, and only require a standard action to perform. These are different from a full attack, but might be what you're looking for.

There are several maneuvers which involve moving as an immediate action to follow a moving foe. There is a maneuver which teleports you up to 50 feet as a swift action, leaving a full round action for attacking. I think there's a maneuver which involves moving and striking everyone you pass, but I may be thinking of Paimon The Dancer's Dance Of Death ability (from Tome Of Magic -- Paimon is a vestige).
runestar
10-24-07, 09:22 PM If you have complete champion, 1 lv of barb gives you pounce.:)
Suspect_Unusual
10-24-07, 09:54 PM I think there's a maneuver which involves moving and striking everyone you pass, but I may be thinking of Paimon The Dancer's Dance Of Death ability (from Tome Of Magic -- Paimon is a vestige).

You're thinking about Desert Tempest, a 6th level Desert Wind maneuver.

Good list, by and by.
Sickseelah1
10-25-07, 12:55 AM I know this isn't exactly a move, but its fairly close i think, especially if you have jump ranks. There's a 1st level maneuver from the Tiger Discipline in Tome of Battle. Its called Sudden Leap, which allows you to jump as a swift action. Given that the DC doubles if you haven't moved at all, if you were to make a 30 foot movement it would be 60DC so I think the more appropriate jump would be 10-15. I know that doesn't seem much, but it can help you get your full round attack when you're just a short distance from your target and feel robbed of your iteratives. Btw, any class that has a huge jump bonus like Thri-kreen (+30) makes it almost the same as move+full attack
Suspect_Unusual
10-25-07, 01:55 AM I know this isn't exactly a move, but its fairly close i think, especially if you have jump ranks. There's a 1st level maneuver from the Tiger Discipline in Tome of Battle. Its called Sudden Leap, which allows you to jump as a swift action. Given that the DC doubles if you haven't moved at all, if you were to make a 30 foot movement it would be 60DC so I think the more appropriate jump would be 10-15. I know that doesn't seem much, but it can help you get your full round attack when you're just a short distance from your target and feel robbed of your iteratives. Btw, any class that has a huge jump bonus like Thri-kreen (+30) makes it almost the same as move+full attack

Good catch! Heck, any swordsage or Warblade with Leaping Dragon Stance (and maybe that "exceptional jump" skill trick, whatever its name is) and full ranks in jump could probably get a good 30 feet on an average roll (9 ranks, +10 bonus from Leaping Dragon Stance, +2 tumble synergy, rolling a 9). At higher levels, say 15, you'd be looking at a minimum of 31 feet on a jump check.

Not only is this a swift action and easily accessed, it ignores difficult terrain completely and bypassed gaps! Excellent chatc.
draco1119
10-25-07, 06:19 AM Quicksilver Boots are another item that grant an extra move action.
Frugal
10-25-07, 09:29 AM Didn't the Marshal get "grant move action" as an ability at some level too?
EjoThims
10-25-07, 09:40 AM 1 level of Barbarian.

Get rage 1/day and any time you charge you make a full attack.

Oh, Complete Champion... What have you wrought?
ToastedAmphibian
10-25-07, 05:20 PM Goliath Barbarian with leap attack, sudden leap, pounce and shock trooper... ouch.

Dont forget, there are a couple of races out there that dont take a penalty for jumping without moving first. The goliath for instance, thanks to mountain movment. He also has +4 strenght, a con bonus, and can weild a large sized weapon straight out of the box. For a +1 LA
BananaB
10-25-07, 10:47 PM You can always take a five foot step before a full attack, sometimes thats enough.
StevenO
10-25-07, 11:30 PM The Haste spell back in 3.0
Mindolin
10-25-07, 11:56 PM They have a feat in the Dragonlance Age of Mortals book, Heroic Surge, that grants either a move or attack action, it also appeared in D20 Modern and the Star Wars RPG before SAGA.
draco1119
10-26-07, 02:30 AM They have a feat in the Dragonlance Age of Mortals book, Heroic Surge, that grants either a move or attack action, it also appeared in D20 Modern and the Star Wars RPG before SAGA.
I believe it has also appeared in the Eberron Campaign Setting,
evangelion1010
10-26-07, 09:36 AM In complete champion, there is a feat [devotion] which allows you to take your move action as a swift action 1/day. It is associated with travel domain/devotion, but doesn't require you to be divine in nature, though as with all the devotion feats if you are you can spend a turn attempt to gain an extra use of the feat...

Personally I think whoever made it was somewhat ignorant in game mechanics, but it certainly helps non-casters out a LOT, and is absurdly good with scouts, especially with improved skirmish from complete scoundrel. I also can't imagine paladins not taking it...
Dheran
10-26-07, 08:20 PM You can always take a five foot step before a full attack, sometimes thats enough. And sometimes you need just a bit more. Thinking along Sickseelah1's lines (moving without a move action), you can expand your 5' adjustments to 10' in a few ways, including:
Make a DC 40 Tumble check
Be a Monk and train with a Sparring Dummy of the Master
If 10' isn't enough, the Elocater PrC's Capricious Step class ability lets you make a second 5' adjustment if you don't otherwise move in the round. Add the above extensions, and you can move up to 20' without a move action.
elonin
10-27-07, 10:43 AM Don't forget about dervish. They have a dance ability that lets you make a full attack with moves between each attack.

Does that 1st level pounce ability work with spring attack? That would be awesome for a scout.
EjoThims
10-27-07, 04:55 PM Don't forget about dervish. They have a dance ability that lets you make a full attack with moves between each attack.

Does that 1st level pounce ability work with spring attack? That would be awesome for a scout.

No, it's charge + full attack.

It's far, far better than spring attack, as all of your attacks get skirmish bonus.
dman11235
10-27-07, 07:06 PM Um, with spring attack all of your attacks get skirmish as well. It's just that you can get a maximum of three attacks with it. And if you charge, what happens then? Do you withdraw so you can charge again next turn? It's good if there is more than one enemy more than 10 feet apart, but otherwise you do damage every other turn. Or do less damage every turn.

And will you tell us where this sparring dummy is?
Decinious
10-27-07, 07:22 PM I've always wanted to make use of Benign Transposition. Have your charging wonder do is charging smash, with your toe to toe fighter on standby, swap their places your fighter takes his full attack action, and your charger is in position to repeat. At least it sounds good in theory, my allies never seem to plan out strategy ahead of time... Baleful Transposiion also has potential to swap the places of an enemy with one of your own so the rest of your party is now surrounding the target.
EjoThims
10-27-07, 07:31 PM Um, with spring attack all of your attacks get skirmish as well. It's just that you can get a maximum of three attacks with it.

And that after more feats than TWF takes.
elonin
10-27-07, 10:46 PM Spring attack normally only allows one attack. with the notable ability being the possibility of putting your self where you want after the attack. I've played a scout/dervish build who did very well having a high tumble skill and using the dervish dance.
Daeva
10-28-07, 08:20 AM you can not use spring attack and charge at the same time. whole you don't get 2 full round actions in a turn thing.

and yeah weve already outlawed that whole one level or barbarian = pounce thing in our group, really really nasty, and not thought out at all, good job there WOTC, seriously, good job.
elonin
10-28-07, 09:11 AM One level dips arein't a good thing to begin with. For the most part if you use the xp penalty this shouldn't be much of an issue.
Uloquiorra
10-28-07, 07:03 PM Hi I'm new here and its my first post and someone could give me some hint about this issue for Move+ Full Attack? As I like a lot the FF Tatics class "Lancer" and I want to make a "similar" feature on my character. I'd think about:
-Spirit Folk (Mountain) (Unaproachable East - Forgotten Realm race)
-Barbarian(Pounce)/?????? (Please give me some hints about what classes I should put like Scout or other)
- Rhino's Hide (Doubles the damage on a Charge action)
- Jump Ring (+30 on jump skills)
- Valorous Weapon Enchantment (UE FR) (Doubles the damage on a Charge action)
- Boots of Jump and Striding (double the speed and the jump height is not limited.)

For the Talents I found this interesting:
Battle Jump (UE FR) - Every jump you make is a charge action but you need to jump at least 5 feets (I'd think that if I jump 5 feet height its possible to make the charge attack+ pounce)
There is any other Talents I should get? please inform me ...and also what classes should be more apropriate and more funny to get?

Thanks in advance.
Oh and please i have access to most available books so be free to add your thoughts...and what book is MiC??
Sinfire Titan
10-28-07, 08:46 PM In complete champion, there is a feat [devotion] which allows you to take your move action as a swift action 1/day. It is associated with travel domain/devotion, but doesn't require you to be divine in nature, though as with all the devotion feats if you are you can spend a turn attempt to gain an extra use of the feat...

Personally I think whoever made it was somewhat ignorant in game mechanics, but it certainly helps non-casters out a LOT, and is absurdly good with scouts, especially with improved skirmish from complete scoundrel. I also can't imagine paladins not taking it...

As a swift action, for the next minute, you may move up to your base and speed also as a swift action. You get it for a full minute, then it is gone, and you've probably already killed it.
Dheran
10-29-07, 07:49 AM And will you tell us where this sparring dummy is? The Sparring Dummy of the Master is in Arms and Equipment Guide. It requires Monk level(s) to use. I guess you could emulate having any 1st level Monk ability with a DC 21 Use Magic Device check to keep the Sparring Dummy active, but there are some problems with that approach:
You need to make a check every hour, for weeks of training.
Interrupting your training means you have to start the whole process over, and a failed UMD check will interrupt your training.
Most classes can't "take 10" with UMD.
... so basically you need a +20 UMD modifier to let you succeed on every check.
Frugal
10-29-07, 08:02 AM The Sparring Dummy of the Master is in Arms and Equipment Guide. It requires Monk level(s) to use. I guess you could emulate having any 1st level Monk ability with a DC 21 Use Magic Device check to keep the Sparring Dummy active, but there are some problems with that approach:
You need to make a check every hour, for weeks of training.
Interrupting your training means you have to start the whole process over, and a failed UMD check will interrupt your training.
Most classes can't "take 10" with UMD.
... so basically you need a +20 UMD modifier to let you succeed on every check.

I'd also point out that emulating a class ability is not the same thing as emulating an entire class.
Dheran
10-29-07, 01:32 PM I'd also point out that emulating a class ability is not the same thing as emulating an entire class. Well, how much do you need to emulate to trick the item into activating? Use Magic Device lets you emulate a class feature. If you emulate every 1st level Monk class feature (a short, finite list) you should be able to get the Sparring Dummy to activate. Since we're requiring success on a natural 1 here, and UMD doesn't take any action to make the checks, we can just iterate through all the Monk's level 1 class features, once per hour.
Frugal
10-29-07, 01:55 PM Well, how much do you need to emulate to trick the item into activating? Use Magic Device lets you emulate a class feature. If you emulate every 1st level Monk class feature (a short, finite list) you should be able to get the Sparring Dummy to activate. Since we're requiring success on a natural 1 here, and UMD doesn't take any action to make the checks, we can just iterate through all the Monk's level 1 class features, once per hour.

Well, the classic example, which I really don't want to reopen here is whether you can use UMD to wield a Holy Avenger at full power, emulating a Paladin. It's much debated, and discussed at length in several threads.
Daeva
10-29-07, 04:15 PM im 100% sure UMD, at leas tin obvious and blatant intent, was meant for the use with i dunno.. im gonna go with magic items use, and not for use with prestige classes
Riplox
10-29-07, 04:28 PM Good catch! Heck, any swordsage or Warblade with Leaping Dragon Stance (and maybe that "exceptional jump" skill trick, whatever its name is) and full ranks in jump could probably get a good 30 feet on an average roll (9 ranks, +10 bonus from Leaping Dragon Stance, +2 tumble synergy, rolling a 9). At higher levels, say 15, you'd be looking at a minimum of 31 feet on a jump check.

Not only is this a swift action and easily accessed, it ignores difficult terrain completely and bypassed gaps! Excellent chatc.

The Leaping Dragon Stance grants a +10-foot enhancement to your jump check and not just a +10 bonus (unless of course they eratta'd it) which makes it kick even more ass 'cause you can jump over 10 feet straight up into the air without trying.
amireallythatcrazy
10-30-07, 05:02 PM I was facing this issue too. what is the easiest way for a rogue/swashbuckler with daring outlaw feat to do this?
Dheran
10-31-07, 06:51 PM im 100% sure UMD, at leas tin obvious and blatant intent, was meant for the use with i dunno.. im gonna go with magic items use, and not for use with prestige classes The Sparring Dummy of the Master is a magic item. I have no clue what prestige class you are referring to.
elonin
10-31-07, 07:58 PM There is a use of UMD that allows emulating a class feature. For those items that depend on using just a class feature can be used with this part of the skill. UMD does not allow emulating a whole class. So using UMD to use sparring dummy of the master doesn't work.
draco1119
11-01-07, 06:32 AM Hi I'm new here and its my first post and someone could give me some hint about this issue for Move+ Full Attack? As I like a lot the FF Tatics class "Lancer" and I want to make a "similar" feature on my character. I'd think about:
-Spirit Folk (Mountain) (Unaproachable East - Forgotten Realm race)
-Barbarian(Pounce)/?????? (Please give me some hints about what classes I should put like Scout or other)
- Rhino's Hide (Doubles the damage on a Charge action)
- Jump Ring (+30 on jump skills)
- Valorous Weapon Enchantment (UE FR) (Doubles the damage on a Charge action)
- Boots of Jump and Striding (double the speed and the jump height is not limited.)

For the Talents I found this interesting:
Battle Jump (UE FR) - Every jump you make is a charge action but you need to jump at least 5 feets (I'd think that if I jump 5 feet height its possible to make the charge attack+ pounce)
There is any other Talents I should get? please inform me ...and also what classes should be more apropriate and more funny to get?

Thanks in advance.
Oh and please i have access to most available books so be free to add your thoughts...and what book is MiC??
You'll also want the Feats Leap Attack (CAdv) and Leap of the Heavens (PHB2).

MIC = Magic Item Compendium
Frugal
11-01-07, 08:44 AM There is a use of UMD that allows emulating a class feature. For those items that depend on using just a class feature can be used with this part of the skill. UMD does not allow emulating a whole class. So using UMD to use sparring dummy of the master doesn't work.

Exactly. I'd also point out that the item in question is in AEG which is 3.0 and some DMs see that as "dubious" for a 3.5 game.
Qube
11-02-07, 02:19 PM Goliath Barbarian with leap attack, sudden leap, pounce and shock trooper... ouch.
He also has +4 strenght, a con bonus, and can weild a large sized weapon straight out of the box. For a +1 LA
Meh, LA+1 isn't worth it: take frenzied beserker: it increases the power attack ratio to 1:4; x3 from leap attack = -1 AC for +12 damage on a charge ... thats 960 damage from pouncing full power attack ...
Dheran
11-04-07, 09:54 AM UMD does not allow emulating a whole class. Where, exactly, is that written in the rules? You'll need to point it out to me.

In the Monk class description we have
Alignment
Hit Die
Class Skills
Skill Points
and everything after that is a class feature, which are specific things that Use Magic Device will let you emulate. UMD will also let you emulate an alignment, if that's needed. So are you trying to make the argument that hit die and skill points per level are detected by magic items when you try to activate them, elonin? Because that's all that's left, and there are lots of classes with the same hit die and skill points as Monks -- Druids, for instance. And note that only one level out of all your class levels is required here, so this magic item's got to detect very subtle differences in your character's class history.

Isn't that absurd? Of course it is.

A class is really just an assemblage of features. UMD will let you emulate each and every one of those features.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Apocolypse_77 10-24-07, 06:36 PM	hi, am i crazy or is there a feat, item, spell, or manuever which allows you to move and make a full round action in the same round?
dman11235 10-24-07, 06:48 PM	There's the Belt of Battle (MiC) which lets you spend charges to get extra actions in a round, Celerity (sp. could be a different version of the word) is a spell that grants a move action (I think, not sure), the spell Lion's Pounce lets you make a full atttack on a charge, as does Psionic Lion's Pounce, I'm sure there's a maneuver (I'm not that familiar with ToB), and if there's a feat it's a big feat that has lot's of requirements and only kick in at certain times. The epic feat Dire Charge only works in the first round, for instance.
Hsien 10-24-07, 06:52 PM	Dervish PrC has the Dervish Dance Several feats that let you take more attacks during a spring attack.
Orenmir 10-24-07, 07:05 PM	Psionic power -- Hustle. Gives you an extra move action.
vorpo 10-24-07, 08:10 PM	Psionic power -- Hustle. Gives you an extra move action. Which is the psionic form of haste.
InkBlot 10-24-07, 08:27 PM	Not really. There is no psionic haste. There's no power which gives you an extra attack, +1 to a few things, and +30 movement (heck, there's just plain no power that gives you +30 movement). Powers: Hustle - Extra move action Psionic Lion's Charge - make a full attack at the end of a charge Maneuvers: Quicksilver Motion - free move action Sudden Leap - free movement, limited by your jump check Pouncing Charge - make a full attack at the end of a charge There are also many maneuvers which allow you to make more than one attack, and only require a standard action to perform. These are different from a full attack, but might be what you're looking for. There are several maneuvers which involve moving as an immediate action to follow a moving foe. There is a maneuver which teleports you up to 50 feet as a swift action, leaving a full round action for attacking. I think there's a maneuver which involves moving and striking everyone you pass, but I may be thinking of Paimon The Dancer's Dance Of Death ability (from Tome Of Magic -- Paimon is a vestige).
runestar 10-24-07, 09:22 PM	If you have complete champion, 1 lv of barb gives you pounce.:)
Suspect_Unusual 10-24-07, 09:54 PM	I think there's a maneuver which involves moving and striking everyone you pass, but I may be thinking of Paimon The Dancer's Dance Of Death ability (from Tome Of Magic -- Paimon is a vestige). You're thinking about Desert Tempest, a 6th level Desert Wind maneuver. Good list, by and by.
Sickseelah1 10-25-07, 12:55 AM	I know this isn't exactly a move, but its fairly close i think, especially if you have jump ranks. There's a 1st level maneuver from the Tiger Discipline in Tome of Battle. Its called Sudden Leap, which allows you to jump as a swift action. Given that the DC doubles if you haven't moved at all, if you were to make a 30 foot movement it would be 60DC so I think the more appropriate jump would be 10-15. I know that doesn't seem much, but it can help you get your full round attack when you're just a short distance from your target and feel robbed of your iteratives. Btw, any class that has a huge jump bonus like Thri-kreen (+30) makes it almost the same as move+full attack
Suspect_Unusual 10-25-07, 01:55 AM	I know this isn't exactly a move, but its fairly close i think, especially if you have jump ranks. There's a 1st level maneuver from the Tiger Discipline in Tome of Battle. Its called Sudden Leap, which allows you to jump as a swift action. Given that the DC doubles if you haven't moved at all, if you were to make a 30 foot movement it would be 60DC so I think the more appropriate jump would be 10-15. I know that doesn't seem much, but it can help you get your full round attack when you're just a short distance from your target and feel robbed of your iteratives. Btw, any class that has a huge jump bonus like Thri-kreen (+30) makes it almost the same as move+full attack Good catch! Heck, any swordsage or Warblade with Leaping Dragon Stance (and maybe that "exceptional jump" skill trick, whatever its name is) and full ranks in jump could probably get a good 30 feet on an average roll (9 ranks, +10 bonus from Leaping Dragon Stance, +2 tumble synergy, rolling a 9). At higher levels, say 15, you'd be looking at a minimum of 31 feet on a jump check. Not only is this a swift action and easily accessed, it ignores difficult terrain completely and bypassed gaps! Excellent chatc.
draco1119 10-25-07, 06:19 AM	Quicksilver Boots are another item that grant an extra move action.
Frugal 10-25-07, 09:29 AM	Didn't the Marshal get "grant move action" as an ability at some level too?
EjoThims 10-25-07, 09:40 AM	1 level of Barbarian. Get rage 1/day and any time you charge you make a full attack. Oh, Complete Champion... What have you wrought?
ToastedAmphibian 10-25-07, 05:20 PM	Goliath Barbarian with leap attack, sudden leap, pounce and shock trooper... ouch. Dont forget, there are a couple of races out there that dont take a penalty for jumping without moving first. The goliath for instance, thanks to mountain movment. He also has +4 strenght, a con bonus, and can weild a large sized weapon straight out of the box. For a +1 LA
BananaB 10-25-07, 10:47 PM	You can always take a five foot step before a full attack, sometimes thats enough.
StevenO 10-25-07, 11:30 PM	The Haste spell back in 3.0
Mindolin 10-25-07, 11:56 PM	They have a feat in the Dragonlance Age of Mortals book, Heroic Surge, that grants either a move or attack action, it also appeared in D20 Modern and the Star Wars RPG before SAGA.
draco1119 10-26-07, 02:30 AM	They have a feat in the Dragonlance Age of Mortals book, Heroic Surge, that grants either a move or attack action, it also appeared in D20 Modern and the Star Wars RPG before SAGA. I believe it has also appeared in the Eberron Campaign Setting,
evangelion1010 10-26-07, 09:36 AM	In complete champion, there is a feat [devotion] which allows you to take your move action as a swift action 1/day. It is associated with travel domain/devotion, but doesn't require you to be divine in nature, though as with all the devotion feats if you are you can spend a turn attempt to gain an extra use of the feat... Personally I think whoever made it was somewhat ignorant in game mechanics, but it certainly helps non-casters out a LOT, and is absurdly good with scouts, especially with improved skirmish from complete scoundrel. I also can't imagine paladins not taking it...
Dheran 10-26-07, 08:20 PM	You can always take a five foot step before a full attack, sometimes thats enough. And sometimes you need just a bit more. Thinking along Sickseelah1's lines (moving without a move action), you can expand your 5' adjustments to 10' in a few ways, including: Make a DC 40 Tumble check Be a Monk and train with a Sparring Dummy of the Master If 10' isn't enough, the Elocater PrC's Capricious Step class ability lets you make a second 5' adjustment if you don't otherwise move in the round. Add the above extensions, and you can move up to 20' without a move action.
elonin 10-27-07, 10:43 AM	Don't forget about dervish. They have a dance ability that lets you make a full attack with moves between each attack. Does that 1st level pounce ability work with spring attack? That would be awesome for a scout.
EjoThims 10-27-07, 04:55 PM	Don't forget about dervish. They have a dance ability that lets you make a full attack with moves between each attack. Does that 1st level pounce ability work with spring attack? That would be awesome for a scout. No, it's charge + full attack. It's far, far better than spring attack, as all of your attacks get skirmish bonus.
dman11235 10-27-07, 07:06 PM	Um, with spring attack all of your attacks get skirmish as well. It's just that you can get a maximum of three attacks with it. And if you charge, what happens then? Do you withdraw so you can charge again next turn? It's good if there is more than one enemy more than 10 feet apart, but otherwise you do damage every other turn. Or do less damage every turn. And will you tell us where this sparring dummy is?
Decinious 10-27-07, 07:22 PM	I've always wanted to make use of Benign Transposition. Have your charging wonder do is charging smash, with your toe to toe fighter on standby, swap their places your fighter takes his full attack action, and your charger is in position to repeat. At least it sounds good in theory, my allies never seem to plan out strategy ahead of time... Baleful Transposiion also has potential to swap the places of an enemy with one of your own so the rest of your party is now surrounding the target.
EjoThims 10-27-07, 07:31 PM	Um, with spring attack all of your attacks get skirmish as well. It's just that you can get a maximum of three attacks with it. And that after more feats than TWF takes.
elonin 10-27-07, 10:46 PM	Spring attack normally only allows one attack. with the notable ability being the possibility of putting your self where you want after the attack. I've played a scout/dervish build who did very well having a high tumble skill and using the dervish dance.
Daeva 10-28-07, 08:20 AM	you can not use spring attack and charge at the same time. whole you don't get 2 full round actions in a turn thing. and yeah weve already outlawed that whole one level or barbarian = pounce thing in our group, really really nasty, and not thought out at all, good job there WOTC, seriously, good job.
elonin 10-28-07, 09:11 AM	One level dips arein't a good thing to begin with. For the most part if you use the xp penalty this shouldn't be much of an issue.
Uloquiorra 10-28-07, 07:03 PM	Hi I'm new here and its my first post and someone could give me some hint about this issue for Move+ Full Attack? As I like a lot the FF Tatics class "Lancer" and I want to make a "similar" feature on my character. I'd think about: -Spirit Folk (Mountain) (Unaproachable East - Forgotten Realm race) -Barbarian(Pounce)/?????? (Please give me some hints about what classes I should put like Scout or other) - Rhino's Hide (Doubles the damage on a Charge action) - Jump Ring (+30 on jump skills) - Valorous Weapon Enchantment (UE FR) (Doubles the damage on a Charge action) - Boots of Jump and Striding (double the speed and the jump height is not limited.) For the Talents I found this interesting: Battle Jump (UE FR) - Every jump you make is a charge action but you need to jump at least 5 feets (I'd think that if I jump 5 feet height its possible to make the charge attack+ pounce) There is any other Talents I should get? please inform me ...and also what classes should be more apropriate and more funny to get? Thanks in advance. Oh and please i have access to most available books so be free to add your thoughts...and what book is MiC??
Sinfire Titan 10-28-07, 08:46 PM	In complete champion, there is a feat [devotion] which allows you to take your move action as a swift action 1/day. It is associated with travel domain/devotion, but doesn't require you to be divine in nature, though as with all the devotion feats if you are you can spend a turn attempt to gain an extra use of the feat... Personally I think whoever made it was somewhat ignorant in game mechanics, but it certainly helps non-casters out a LOT, and is absurdly good with scouts, especially with improved skirmish from complete scoundrel. I also can't imagine paladins not taking it... As a swift action, for the next minute, you may move up to your base and speed also as a swift action. You get it for a full minute, then it is gone, and you've probably already killed it.
Dheran 10-29-07, 07:49 AM	And will you tell us where this sparring dummy is? The Sparring Dummy of the Master is in Arms and Equipment Guide. It requires Monk level(s) to use. I guess you could emulate having any 1st level Monk ability with a DC 21 Use Magic Device check to keep the Sparring Dummy active, but there are some problems with that approach: You need to make a check every hour, for weeks of training. Interrupting your training means you have to start the whole process over, and a failed UMD check will interrupt your training. Most classes can't "take 10" with UMD. ... so basically you need a +20 UMD modifier to let you succeed on every check.
Frugal 10-29-07, 08:02 AM	The Sparring Dummy of the Master is in Arms and Equipment Guide. It requires Monk level(s) to use. I guess you could emulate having any 1st level Monk ability with a DC 21 Use Magic Device check to keep the Sparring Dummy active, but there are some problems with that approach: You need to make a check every hour, for weeks of training. Interrupting your training means you have to start the whole process over, and a failed UMD check will interrupt your training. Most classes can't "take 10" with UMD. ... so basically you need a +20 UMD modifier to let you succeed on every check. I'd also point out that emulating a class ability is not the same thing as emulating an entire class.
Dheran 10-29-07, 01:32 PM	I'd also point out that emulating a class ability is not the same thing as emulating an entire class. Well, how much do you need to emulate to trick the item into activating? Use Magic Device lets you emulate a class feature. If you emulate every 1st level Monk class feature (a short, finite list) you should be able to get the Sparring Dummy to activate. Since we're requiring success on a natural 1 here, and UMD doesn't take any action to make the checks, we can just iterate through all the Monk's level 1 class features, once per hour.
Frugal 10-29-07, 01:55 PM	Well, how much do you need to emulate to trick the item into activating? Use Magic Device lets you emulate a class feature. If you emulate every 1st level Monk class feature (a short, finite list) you should be able to get the Sparring Dummy to activate. Since we're requiring success on a natural 1 here, and UMD doesn't take any action to make the checks, we can just iterate through all the Monk's level 1 class features, once per hour. Well, the classic example, which I really don't want to reopen here is whether you can use UMD to wield a Holy Avenger at full power, emulating a Paladin. It's much debated, and discussed at length in several threads.
Daeva 10-29-07, 04:15 PM	im 100% sure UMD, at leas tin obvious and blatant intent, was meant for the use with i dunno.. im gonna go with magic items use, and not for use with prestige classes
Riplox 10-29-07, 04:28 PM	Good catch! Heck, any swordsage or Warblade with Leaping Dragon Stance (and maybe that "exceptional jump" skill trick, whatever its name is) and full ranks in jump could probably get a good 30 feet on an average roll (9 ranks, +10 bonus from Leaping Dragon Stance, +2 tumble synergy, rolling a 9). At higher levels, say 15, you'd be looking at a minimum of 31 feet on a jump check. Not only is this a swift action and easily accessed, it ignores difficult terrain completely and bypassed gaps! Excellent chatc. The Leaping Dragon Stance grants a +10-foot enhancement to your jump check and not just a +10 bonus (unless of course they eratta'd it) which makes it kick even more ass 'cause you can jump over 10 feet straight up into the air without trying.
amireallythatcrazy 10-30-07, 05:02 PM	I was facing this issue too. what is the easiest way for a rogue/swashbuckler with daring outlaw feat to do this?
Dheran 10-31-07, 06:51 PM	im 100% sure UMD, at leas tin obvious and blatant intent, was meant for the use with i dunno.. im gonna go with magic items use, and not for use with prestige classes The Sparring Dummy of the Master is a magic item. I have no clue what prestige class you are referring to.
elonin 10-31-07, 07:58 PM	There is a use of UMD that allows emulating a class feature. For those items that depend on using just a class feature can be used with this part of the skill. UMD does not allow emulating a whole class. So using UMD to use sparring dummy of the master doesn't work.
draco1119 11-01-07, 06:32 AM	Hi I'm new here and its my first post and someone could give me some hint about this issue for Move+ Full Attack? As I like a lot the FF Tatics class "Lancer" and I want to make a "similar" feature on my character. I'd think about: -Spirit Folk (Mountain) (Unaproachable East - Forgotten Realm race) -Barbarian(Pounce)/?????? (Please give me some hints about what classes I should put like Scout or other) - Rhino's Hide (Doubles the damage on a Charge action) - Jump Ring (+30 on jump skills) - Valorous Weapon Enchantment (UE FR) (Doubles the damage on a Charge action) - Boots of Jump and Striding (double the speed and the jump height is not limited.) For the Talents I found this interesting: Battle Jump (UE FR) - Every jump you make is a charge action but you need to jump at least 5 feets (I'd think that if I jump 5 feet height its possible to make the charge attack+ pounce) There is any other Talents I should get? please inform me ...and also what classes should be more apropriate and more funny to get? Thanks in advance. Oh and please i have access to most available books so be free to add your thoughts...and what book is MiC?? You'll also want the Feats Leap Attack (CAdv) and Leap of the Heavens (PHB2). MIC = Magic Item Compendium
Frugal 11-01-07, 08:44 AM	There is a use of UMD that allows emulating a class feature. For those items that depend on using just a class feature can be used with this part of the skill. UMD does not allow emulating a whole class. So using UMD to use sparring dummy of the master doesn't work. Exactly. I'd also point out that the item in question is in AEG which is 3.0 and some DMs see that as "dubious" for a 3.5 game.
Qube 11-02-07, 02:19 PM	Goliath Barbarian with leap attack, sudden leap, pounce and shock trooper... ouch. He also has +4 strenght, a con bonus, and can weild a large sized weapon straight out of the box. For a +1 LA Meh, LA+1 isn't worth it: take frenzied beserker: it increases the power attack ratio to 1:4; x3 from leap attack = -1 AC for +12 damage on a charge ... thats 960 damage from pouncing full power attack ...
Dheran 11-04-07, 09:54 AM	UMD does not allow emulating a whole class. Where, exactly, is that written in the rules? You'll need to point it out to me. In the Monk class description we have Alignment Hit Die Class Skills Skill Points and everything after that is a class feature, which are specific things that Use Magic Device will let you emulate. UMD will also let you emulate an alignment, if that's needed. So are you trying to make the argument that hit die and skill points per level are detected by magic items when you try to activate them, elonin? Because that's all that's left, and there are lots of classes with the same hit die and skill points as Monks -- Druids, for instance. And note that only one level out of all your class levels is required here, so this magic item's got to detect very subtle differences in your character's class history. Isn't that absurd? Of course it is. A class is really just an assemblage of features. UMD will let you emulate each and every one of those features.