Move Silently and Flying [Archive] - Wizards Community

Move Silently and Flying [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Vash_HS
03-29-07, 12:40 AM How much of a bonus to move silently would a Warlock with Fell Flight (2nd best flying but without wings) get (say he's waring no armor)?
Despana
03-29-07, 01:39 AM Bonus for flying? Per the book? None.
Vegepygmy
03-29-07, 02:46 AM Agreed. None.
Fireclave
03-29-07, 02:58 AM Flying provides no bonus or penalty to Move Silently checks.
Inigo Carmine
03-29-07, 10:45 AM I myself might house rule a +2 circumstance bonus for flight, but you won't find that anywhere in the rulebooks. Since it's never actually come up, that's abig maybe.

The biggest benefit, however, is that most penalties won't apply for you. Crunchy grass, squeaky floorboards in an old building, dry leaves and twigs, etc.
TrustTymora
03-29-07, 12:16 PM +2 circumstance as per the book.

TT
Despana
03-29-07, 01:19 PM +2 circumstance as per the book.

TT

Would you like to point out where you got that from?
Inigo Carmine
03-29-07, 01:45 PM He's probably referring to the DMG suggestion of the DM applying +/- 2 circumstance modifiers where appropriate. It is the same reason behind my statement of giving one, but I clearly said that applying it to MS while flying would not be found anywhere in the books.

The fact that spell effects are usually very well codified in the description (often to the point of redundancy) is what makes me leary about giving it, and most of the rest of you downright adament about not doing so. The ad hoc circumstance modifier is supposed to be for the many circumstances of which there are no specific rules covering it though, and so I'm comfortable calling it a houserule.
TrustTymora
03-29-07, 02:20 PM Based on the normal circumstances for moving silently do not include that the mover is flying a +2 circumstance modifier is appropriate as per the DMG applying modifiers to skill checks. So yes, as per the book as you like to say, a +2 modifier.

TT
TheRealOrion
03-29-07, 02:50 PM I'd say no bonus, and if a player gets insistent that she "ought" to get one, I'd say, "When you fly, you make a 'wooooooosh' noise, like in movies where people fly." Done and done.

(I'm kind of a smart-ass DM.)
Naderion
03-29-07, 03:21 PM If you fly be floating motionless through the air, I'd say you'd get a big bonus to move silently, just because you can decide not to move your body at all.

But if you fly with wings, I think staying quite is much more difficult when you are not gliding down from above. Other from that, the flapping of wings large enough to keep a medium creature in air would be quite loud in itself and your armor makes a lot of noise too.
enygmatic_me
03-29-07, 11:10 PM If you fly be floating motionless through the air, I'd say you'd get a big bonus to move silently, just because you can decide not to move your body at all.

But if you fly with wings, I think staying quite is much more difficult when you are not gliding down from above. Other from that, the flapping of wings large enough to keep a medium creature in air would be quite loud in itself and your armor makes a lot of noise too.

Unless the had wings designed like an Owls. Owls are silent in flight.

It really is a DM's call. No real rule exists to determine this one way or another.
Fireclave
03-30-07, 03:54 AM Unless the had wings designed like an Owls. Owls are silent in flight.

It really is a DM's call. No real rule exists to determine this one way or another.
I have to disagree with this. There are rules for determining how silently you can fly. Whether or not you can be heard while flying is covered by the Move Silently skill. Take the owl for example. An owl's stealth is represented in D&D by it's extremely high racial modifier to Move Silently plus it's dex bonus. You'll also notice that other silent flyers, like wind elementals and genies (neither of which rely on wings), have high dexterities, ranks in move silently, or both.

If you want stealth-flight, just drop a few ranks into Move Silently.
Vash_HS
04-03-07, 10:51 PM Thanks for all the help so far. I was thinking about basing the move silently bonus off a creature of similar size and flight style (maneuverability and type, ie wingless). However looking at some creature, like an Allip or a Beholder or even an Air Elemental, they have no Move Silently bonus. It's actually kind of odd that they have no bonus. Again, thanks for the help.
nightwyrm
04-03-07, 11:24 PM I'd have to say no bonus, but it would ignore penalties from moving on noisy surfaces.
Fireclave
04-04-07, 12:45 AM Thanks for all the help so far. I was thinking about basing the move silently bonus off a creature of similar size and flight style (maneuverability and type, ie wingless). However looking at some creature, like an Allip or a Beholder or even an Air Elemental, they have no Move Silently bonus. It's actually kind of odd that they have no bonus. Again, thanks for the help.
They have no listed bonus because they don't have ranks in Move Silently or other miscellaneous modifiers. Air Elementals, for example, still have a sky high dexterity being added to their Move Silently checks.
Vash_HS
04-04-07, 06:35 PM They have no listed bonus because they don't have ranks in Move Silently or other miscellaneous modifiers. Air Elementals, for example, still have a sky high dexterity being added to their Move Silently checks.

True, but I assumed something like an Allip (a floating undead thing) would be able to move silently but it has no ranks and only a +1 dex bonus. So by the rules it should be easy to hear it moving around. Same with a Beholder who for some reason has a great hide but can still be heard quite easily. I figured they would have a bonus to Move Silently from being able to float (essentially just stirring the air) but I guess that's not how things work.
Vegepygmy
04-04-07, 06:43 PM True, but I assumed something like an Allip (a floating undead thing) would be able to move silently but it has no ranks and only a +1 dex bonus. So by the rules it should be easy to hear it moving around.Incorporeal creatures move in perfect silence and cannot be heard using Listen checks if they don't want to be. Monster Manual, page 311.
Vash_HS
04-04-07, 06:53 PM Incorporeal creatures move in perfect silence and cannot be heard using Listen checks if they don't want to be. Monster Manual, page 311.

Well that solved that. Still that Beholder thing bothers me (and I really only looked up to Elemental in the book so I have no clue what else has this issue). I mean, they have +10 or so on hide but only a +2 to move silently. I mean this is a big floating thing and it is better at hiding than being quiet? Just doesn't make sense to me. Still it gets to my bigger issue of perfect flight and hover seem to have no effect on being quiet. I guess you don't get the terrain penalty but I would think you'd get some bonus as well.
Fireclave
04-04-07, 07:32 PM I mean this is a big floating thing and it is better at hiding than being quiet? Just doesn't make sense to me.
Makes perfect sense. Hiding and moving silently are two different concepts. The former deals in not being seen, the latter in not being heard. You don't have to be good at one to be good at the other.

Still it gets to my bigger issue of perfect flight and hover seem to have no effect on being quiet. I guess you don't get the terrain penalty but I would think you'd get some bonus as well.
That would only be true if you assume that what ever is powering your flight (magical, or otherwise) does so in complete silence. The RAW don't assume this. Instead, it is assumed that whatever means they are using to fly produces as much noise as moving along the ground.

I'd say no bonus, and if a player gets insistent that she "ought" to get one, I'd say, "When you fly, you make a 'wooooooosh' noise, like in movies where people fly." Done and done.
Yeah, like that.
Vash_HS
04-04-07, 08:19 PM Makes perfect sense. Hiding and moving silently are two different concepts. The former deals in not being seen, the latter in not being heard. You don't have to be good at one to be good at the other.

That would only be true if you assume that what ever is powering your flight (magical, or otherwise) does so in complete silence. The RAW don't assume this. Instead, it is assumed that whatever means they are using to fly produces as much noise as moving along the ground.

Yeah, like that.

I understand completely but it just seemed odd to me.

Again, thanks all for the help. It was very informative.
My Warlock is going to make a WHOOOOO WHOOOOO sound when he flies (like a train whistle).
Fireclave
04-04-07, 08:47 PM I would have gone with a wooosh , a semi-metalic vernnnnn, or a personalized theme song, but whatever floats yer boat :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Vash_HS 03-29-07, 12:40 AM	How much of a bonus to move silently would a Warlock with Fell Flight (2nd best flying but without wings) get (say he's waring no armor)?
Despana 03-29-07, 01:39 AM	Bonus for flying? Per the book? None.
Vegepygmy 03-29-07, 02:46 AM	Agreed. None.
Fireclave 03-29-07, 02:58 AM	Flying provides no bonus or penalty to Move Silently checks.
Inigo Carmine 03-29-07, 10:45 AM	I myself might house rule a +2 circumstance bonus for flight, but you won't find that anywhere in the rulebooks. Since it's never actually come up, that's abig maybe. The biggest benefit, however, is that most penalties won't apply for you. Crunchy grass, squeaky floorboards in an old building, dry leaves and twigs, etc.
TrustTymora 03-29-07, 12:16 PM	+2 circumstance as per the book. TT
Despana 03-29-07, 01:19 PM	+2 circumstance as per the book. TT Would you like to point out where you got that from?
Inigo Carmine 03-29-07, 01:45 PM	He's probably referring to the DMG suggestion of the DM applying +/- 2 circumstance modifiers where appropriate. It is the same reason behind my statement of giving one, but I clearly said that applying it to MS while flying would not be found anywhere in the books. The fact that spell effects are usually very well codified in the description (often to the point of redundancy) is what makes me leary about giving it, and most of the rest of you downright adament about not doing so. The ad hoc circumstance modifier is supposed to be for the many circumstances of which there are no specific rules covering it though, and so I'm comfortable calling it a houserule.
TrustTymora 03-29-07, 02:20 PM	Based on the normal circumstances for moving silently do not include that the mover is flying a +2 circumstance modifier is appropriate as per the DMG applying modifiers to skill checks. So yes, as per the book as you like to say, a +2 modifier. TT
TheRealOrion 03-29-07, 02:50 PM	I'd say no bonus, and if a player gets insistent that she "ought" to get one, I'd say, "When you fly, you make a 'wooooooosh' noise, like in movies where people fly." Done and done. (I'm kind of a smart-ass DM.)
Naderion 03-29-07, 03:21 PM	If you fly be floating motionless through the air, I'd say you'd get a big bonus to move silently, just because you can decide not to move your body at all. But if you fly with wings, I think staying quite is much more difficult when you are not gliding down from above. Other from that, the flapping of wings large enough to keep a medium creature in air would be quite loud in itself and your armor makes a lot of noise too.
enygmatic_me 03-29-07, 11:10 PM	If you fly be floating motionless through the air, I'd say you'd get a big bonus to move silently, just because you can decide not to move your body at all. But if you fly with wings, I think staying quite is much more difficult when you are not gliding down from above. Other from that, the flapping of wings large enough to keep a medium creature in air would be quite loud in itself and your armor makes a lot of noise too. Unless the had wings designed like an Owls. Owls are silent in flight. It really is a DM's call. No real rule exists to determine this one way or another.
Fireclave 03-30-07, 03:54 AM	Unless the had wings designed like an Owls. Owls are silent in flight. It really is a DM's call. No real rule exists to determine this one way or another. I have to disagree with this. There are rules for determining how silently you can fly. Whether or not you can be heard while flying is covered by the Move Silently skill. Take the owl for example. An owl's stealth is represented in D&D by it's extremely high racial modifier to Move Silently plus it's dex bonus. You'll also notice that other silent flyers, like wind elementals and genies (neither of which rely on wings), have high dexterities, ranks in move silently, or both. If you want stealth-flight, just drop a few ranks into Move Silently.
Vash_HS 04-03-07, 10:51 PM	Thanks for all the help so far. I was thinking about basing the move silently bonus off a creature of similar size and flight style (maneuverability and type, ie wingless). However looking at some creature, like an Allip or a Beholder or even an Air Elemental, they have no Move Silently bonus. It's actually kind of odd that they have no bonus. Again, thanks for the help.
nightwyrm 04-03-07, 11:24 PM	I'd have to say no bonus, but it would ignore penalties from moving on noisy surfaces.
Fireclave 04-04-07, 12:45 AM	Thanks for all the help so far. I was thinking about basing the move silently bonus off a creature of similar size and flight style (maneuverability and type, ie wingless). However looking at some creature, like an Allip or a Beholder or even an Air Elemental, they have no Move Silently bonus. It's actually kind of odd that they have no bonus. Again, thanks for the help. They have no listed bonus because they don't have ranks in Move Silently or other miscellaneous modifiers. Air Elementals, for example, still have a sky high dexterity being added to their Move Silently checks.
Vash_HS 04-04-07, 06:35 PM	They have no listed bonus because they don't have ranks in Move Silently or other miscellaneous modifiers. Air Elementals, for example, still have a sky high dexterity being added to their Move Silently checks. True, but I assumed something like an Allip (a floating undead thing) would be able to move silently but it has no ranks and only a +1 dex bonus. So by the rules it should be easy to hear it moving around. Same with a Beholder who for some reason has a great hide but can still be heard quite easily. I figured they would have a bonus to Move Silently from being able to float (essentially just stirring the air) but I guess that's not how things work.
Vegepygmy 04-04-07, 06:43 PM	True, but I assumed something like an Allip (a floating undead thing) would be able to move silently but it has no ranks and only a +1 dex bonus. So by the rules it should be easy to hear it moving around.Incorporeal creatures move in perfect silence and cannot be heard using Listen checks if they don't want to be. Monster Manual, page 311.
Vash_HS 04-04-07, 06:53 PM	Incorporeal creatures move in perfect silence and cannot be heard using Listen checks if they don't want to be. Monster Manual, page 311. Well that solved that. Still that Beholder thing bothers me (and I really only looked up to Elemental in the book so I have no clue what else has this issue). I mean, they have +10 or so on hide but only a +2 to move silently. I mean this is a big floating thing and it is better at hiding than being quiet? Just doesn't make sense to me. Still it gets to my bigger issue of perfect flight and hover seem to have no effect on being quiet. I guess you don't get the terrain penalty but I would think you'd get some bonus as well.
Fireclave 04-04-07, 07:32 PM	I mean this is a big floating thing and it is better at hiding than being quiet? Just doesn't make sense to me. Makes perfect sense. Hiding and moving silently are two different concepts. The former deals in not being seen, the latter in not being heard. You don't have to be good at one to be good at the other. Still it gets to my bigger issue of perfect flight and hover seem to have no effect on being quiet. I guess you don't get the terrain penalty but I would think you'd get some bonus as well. That would only be true if you assume that what ever is powering your flight (magical, or otherwise) does so in complete silence. The RAW don't assume this. Instead, it is assumed that whatever means they are using to fly produces as much noise as moving along the ground. I'd say no bonus, and if a player gets insistent that she "ought" to get one, I'd say, "When you fly, you make a 'wooooooosh' noise, like in movies where people fly." Done and done. Yeah, like that.
Vash_HS 04-04-07, 08:19 PM	Makes perfect sense. Hiding and moving silently are two different concepts. The former deals in not being seen, the latter in not being heard. You don't have to be good at one to be good at the other. That would only be true if you assume that what ever is powering your flight (magical, or otherwise) does so in complete silence. The RAW don't assume this. Instead, it is assumed that whatever means they are using to fly produces as much noise as moving along the ground. Yeah, like that. I understand completely but it just seemed odd to me. Again, thanks all for the help. It was very informative. My Warlock is going to make a WHOOOOO WHOOOOO sound when he flies (like a train whistle).
Fireclave 04-04-07, 08:47 PM	I would have gone with a wooosh , a semi-metalic vernnnnn, or a personalized theme song, but whatever floats yer boat :D