Multiclassing and Skill Points [Archive] - Wizards Community

Multiclassing and Skill Points [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kernith
03-29-08, 02:41 PM When you multiclass with a character, do you get the bonus for being level one with that new class (Skill points x4) or does only apply when your character level one. Both answers, yes and no, create problems with the system.

I think the best way to present the problem is a hypothetical scenario.
Let's say I am making a Fighter2/Rogue1. We'll give him 10 intelligence for simplicity.

The 2 situations:
a) Only get the x4 bonus at first character level
The amount of skill points you would get would be very dependent on what class you took first. If you took rogue first you would get 32, 2, and 2 skill points for each of the 3 levels. If fighter was first, you would get 8, 8, and 2 skill points. This means that for characters identical in every aspect at third level, one has two times the number of skill points.
Another problem with this situation is that whichever class was not taken first is always going to be behind on his/her skills.

b) you get the x4 bonus for taking the first level in a class
The problem presented by this situation is that one could easily stack up on skills by taking a level in an extra class or 2. Wizards does account for taking a bunch of multiclasses by the exp penalty, but if you are not planning on multiclassing otherwise, one level is rogue and net you an extra 30 skill points.

I've looked through the DM's guide and other resources, but nothing really seems to define well, so I was wondering what the boards thought of skills and multiclassing.
Baninor
03-29-08, 02:58 PM I'm fairly certain they address this in the 3.5 faqs, it's "a". As for the same, the "regular" way to increase hp during level ups is 1/2 HD + con. But at first level its full. So a rogue 1/Fighter 2 will be different from Fighter 2/rogue 1.
groveborn
03-29-08, 03:26 PM This is addressed immediately after the classes in the player's handbook. You only gain the x4 skill points at first character level, not class level. Also, you do not gain full hit points, it's rolled as normal (or averaged). So far as I can think, you gain all other benefits.
Baninor
03-29-08, 06:05 PM You do gain full. Look at page 6 under Record Combat numbers
StevenO
03-29-08, 11:10 PM Rogue 1 plus Fighter 2 has 36 skill points and averages 17 hp.
Fighter 2 plus Rogue 1 has 18 skill points and averages 19 hp.

If looking for skill points take the high skill class first. One advantage to starting Fighter over Rogue is that you immediately qualify for feats that have a +1 BAB requirement (like Weapon Finesse) which you may not be able to get so quickly otherwise. That may not make up for having only half the skill points at 3rd level but don't forget that Ftr1 is generally more survivable that Rog1.
groveborn
03-30-08, 01:38 AM You do gain full. Look at page 6 under Record Combat numbers

Player's Handbook, page 59 says otherwise. It's spelled out fully there.
Baninor
03-30-08, 09:22 AM Player's Handbook, page 59 says otherwise. It's spelled out fully there.

Congratulations your looking at the -level up- guide. As opposed to the -character creation- guide. Next time read the entire section.
groveborn
03-30-08, 01:01 PM Congratulations your looking at the -level up- guide. As opposed to the -character creation- guide. Next time read the entire section.

Why in the world would you start from scratch to multiclass? This doesn't make sense.

You are wrong, live with it.
Baninor
03-30-08, 01:10 PM Do you even understand what your are arguing against? I was saying the first level gave you full, not a first level of a class gave you full.

"the "regular" way to increase hp during level ups is 1/2 HD + con. But at first level its full. So a rogue 1/Fighter 2 will be different from Fighter 2/rogue 1."

See my example supports what I said of only first level gives you full HP, StevenO clearly understood what I said and showed it with the math.

So either
A: Your too dense to understand what I'm saying
B: You just realised you were wrong and deliberatly pretended to misinterpret what I said.

Your choice.

EDIT: Oh it looks like its B
This is addressed immediately after the classes in the player's handbook. You only gain the x4 skill points at first character level, not class level. Also, you do not gain full hit points, it's rolled as normal (or averaged). So far as I can think, you gain all other benefits.

If you read this it looks like you were arguing that at first character level (not class) you don't gain full HP

Well I got slightly off-topic. But for the original question, the only time you get class (skills + int) x 4 is at first character level. The PHB has everything for characters. Rules for creating a character on page 6 and leveling up a character on page 59. Hope that answers your question.
BugHunter
03-30-08, 01:15 PM deleted
groveborn
03-30-08, 04:22 PM Do you even understand what your are arguing against? I was saying the first level gave you full, not a first level of a class gave you full.

"the "regular" way to increase hp during level ups is 1/2 HD + con. But at first level its full. So a rogue 1/Fighter 2 will be different from Fighter 2/rogue 1."

See my example supports what I said of only first level gives you full HP, StevenO clearly understood what I said and showed it with the math.

So either
A: Your too dense to understand what I'm saying
B: You just realised you were wrong and deliberatly pretended to misinterpret what I said.

Your choice.

EDIT: Oh it looks like its B

If you read this it looks like you were arguing that at first character level (not class) you don't gain full HP

Well I got slightly off-topic. But for the original question, the only time you get class (skills + int) x 4 is at first character level. The PHB has everything for characters. Rules for creating a character on page 6 and leveling up a character on page 59. Hope that answers your question.

As the original post was questioning multiclassing, it would be unreasonable to misinterpret my posts as anything but an answer to it. Thus, when I am told I am wrong in my posts, but I am in fact correct, I find it reasonable that the person who argues against me to be incorrect. So, call me dense and stupid if you like, but none of my posts in this thread are wrong. Have a nice day.
Baninor
03-30-08, 08:41 PM Well after polling my gaming group, it seems about half take your side. But everyone agreed our original posts were both right if slightly unclear. So I'll apologize for misinterpreting your post.
groveborn
03-30-08, 10:58 PM No problem. English, being a natural language, isn't always crystal clear. If only one could convey thoughts and images when speaking.....

Oh wait, one could, it's just limited to one's drawing ability. And since there is no set universal emotional color coding system, it'd be rather mixed up anyway.
Jaxgaret
03-30-08, 11:08 PM since there is no set universal emotional color coding system, it'd be rather mixed up anyway.

Turquoise bicycle shoe fins actualize radishes greenly.
strenoth
03-30-08, 11:46 PM Yeah.. *ahem* anyway, the rules are clear.

You get full HP and 4x skills at first character level only.

As per the leveling up section, your roll your HP and gain normal SP when multiclassing into a new class.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kernith 03-29-08, 02:41 PM	When you multiclass with a character, do you get the bonus for being level one with that new class (Skill points x4) or does only apply when your character level one. Both answers, yes and no, create problems with the system. I think the best way to present the problem is a hypothetical scenario. Let's say I am making a Fighter2/Rogue1. We'll give him 10 intelligence for simplicity. The 2 situations: a) Only get the x4 bonus at first character level The amount of skill points you would get would be very dependent on what class you took first. If you took rogue first you would get 32, 2, and 2 skill points for each of the 3 levels. If fighter was first, you would get 8, 8, and 2 skill points. This means that for characters identical in every aspect at third level, one has two times the number of skill points. Another problem with this situation is that whichever class was not taken first is always going to be behind on his/her skills. b) you get the x4 bonus for taking the first level in a class The problem presented by this situation is that one could easily stack up on skills by taking a level in an extra class or 2. Wizards does account for taking a bunch of multiclasses by the exp penalty, but if you are not planning on multiclassing otherwise, one level is rogue and net you an extra 30 skill points. I've looked through the DM's guide and other resources, but nothing really seems to define well, so I was wondering what the boards thought of skills and multiclassing.
Baninor 03-29-08, 02:58 PM	I'm fairly certain they address this in the 3.5 faqs, it's "a". As for the same, the "regular" way to increase hp during level ups is 1/2 HD + con. But at first level its full. So a rogue 1/Fighter 2 will be different from Fighter 2/rogue 1.
groveborn 03-29-08, 03:26 PM	This is addressed immediately after the classes in the player's handbook. You only gain the x4 skill points at first character level, not class level. Also, you do not gain full hit points, it's rolled as normal (or averaged). So far as I can think, you gain all other benefits.
Baninor 03-29-08, 06:05 PM	You do gain full. Look at page 6 under Record Combat numbers
StevenO 03-29-08, 11:10 PM	Rogue 1 plus Fighter 2 has 36 skill points and averages 17 hp. Fighter 2 plus Rogue 1 has 18 skill points and averages 19 hp. If looking for skill points take the high skill class first. One advantage to starting Fighter over Rogue is that you immediately qualify for feats that have a +1 BAB requirement (like Weapon Finesse) which you may not be able to get so quickly otherwise. That may not make up for having only half the skill points at 3rd level but don't forget that Ftr1 is generally more survivable that Rog1.
groveborn 03-30-08, 01:38 AM	You do gain full. Look at page 6 under Record Combat numbers Player's Handbook, page 59 says otherwise. It's spelled out fully there.
Baninor 03-30-08, 09:22 AM	Player's Handbook, page 59 says otherwise. It's spelled out fully there. Congratulations your looking at the -level up- guide. As opposed to the -character creation- guide. Next time read the entire section.
groveborn 03-30-08, 01:01 PM	Congratulations your looking at the -level up- guide. As opposed to the -character creation- guide. Next time read the entire section. Why in the world would you start from scratch to multiclass? This doesn't make sense. You are wrong, live with it.
Baninor 03-30-08, 01:10 PM	Do you even understand what your are arguing against? I was saying the first level gave you full, not a first level of a class gave you full. "the "regular" way to increase hp during level ups is 1/2 HD + con. But at first level its full. So a rogue 1/Fighter 2 will be different from Fighter 2/rogue 1." See my example supports what I said of only first level gives you full HP, StevenO clearly understood what I said and showed it with the math. So either A: Your too dense to understand what I'm saying B: You just realised you were wrong and deliberatly pretended to misinterpret what I said. Your choice. EDIT: Oh it looks like its B This is addressed immediately after the classes in the player's handbook. You only gain the x4 skill points at first character level, not class level. Also, you do not gain full hit points, it's rolled as normal (or averaged). So far as I can think, you gain all other benefits. If you read this it looks like you were arguing that at first character level (not class) you don't gain full HP Well I got slightly off-topic. But for the original question, the only time you get class (skills + int) x 4 is at first character level. The PHB has everything for characters. Rules for creating a character on page 6 and leveling up a character on page 59. Hope that answers your question.
BugHunter 03-30-08, 01:15 PM	deleted
groveborn 03-30-08, 04:22 PM	Do you even understand what your are arguing against? I was saying the first level gave you full, not a first level of a class gave you full. "the "regular" way to increase hp during level ups is 1/2 HD + con. But at first level its full. So a rogue 1/Fighter 2 will be different from Fighter 2/rogue 1." See my example supports what I said of only first level gives you full HP, StevenO clearly understood what I said and showed it with the math. So either A: Your too dense to understand what I'm saying B: You just realised you were wrong and deliberatly pretended to misinterpret what I said. Your choice. EDIT: Oh it looks like its B If you read this it looks like you were arguing that at first character level (not class) you don't gain full HP Well I got slightly off-topic. But for the original question, the only time you get class (skills + int) x 4 is at first character level. The PHB has everything for characters. Rules for creating a character on page 6 and leveling up a character on page 59. Hope that answers your question. As the original post was questioning multiclassing, it would be unreasonable to misinterpret my posts as anything but an answer to it. Thus, when I am told I am wrong in my posts, but I am in fact correct, I find it reasonable that the person who argues against me to be incorrect. So, call me dense and stupid if you like, but none of my posts in this thread are wrong. Have a nice day.
Baninor 03-30-08, 08:41 PM	Well after polling my gaming group, it seems about half take your side. But everyone agreed our original posts were both right if slightly unclear. So I'll apologize for misinterpreting your post.
groveborn 03-30-08, 10:58 PM	No problem. English, being a natural language, isn't always crystal clear. If only one could convey thoughts and images when speaking..... Oh wait, one could, it's just limited to one's drawing ability. And since there is no set universal emotional color coding system, it'd be rather mixed up anyway.
Jaxgaret 03-30-08, 11:08 PM	since there is no set universal emotional color coding system, it'd be rather mixed up anyway. Turquoise bicycle shoe fins actualize radishes greenly.
strenoth 03-30-08, 11:46 PM	Yeah.. ahem anyway, the rules are clear. You get full HP and 4x skills at first character level only. As per the leveling up section, your roll your HP and gain normal SP when multiclassing into a new class.