Multiple AoOs against a single target [Archive] - Wizards Community

Multiple AoOs against a single target [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Orenmir
12-11-07, 12:26 AM Is there a feat that allows multiple AoOs against a single target per round?
Salla
12-11-07, 12:31 AM Combat Reflexes.

There's no way to get more than one AoO per provocation, however.
Tordak
12-11-07, 08:19 AM Combat reflexes gives you additionnal AoO, which can be use against the same opponent (or against different opponents).

If you have T-W fighting, you can take the feat double hit (Miniature Handbook) which allow you to make one attack with each weapon against the same opponent at the same time (so on the same occasion), but you take the regular penalties for fighting with two weapons. The feat does not specify however if this counts for 2 seperate AoOs against your maximum AoOs for the round.
Orenmir
12-11-07, 10:39 AM Sorry, I thought even with Combat Reflexes you were only allowed 1 AoO per creature per round. I'm not sure why I thought that. I gotta stop posting questions when I'm sleepy.

Cheers,
Big O
Eogan
12-11-07, 10:59 AM Sorry, I thought even with Combat Reflexes you were only allowed 1 AoO per creature per round. I'm not sure why I thought that. I gotta stop posting questions when I'm sleepy.

Probably you thought so because that was the rule in 3.0. That's one of the things that were changed in 3.5. ;)
Tordak
12-11-07, 11:36 AM Actually, this is a misconception; the only mention of one per enemy was in the 3.0 PHB in the combat reflexes and was provided to clarify the example in the combat reflexes feat description, and even then it did not said one per enemy per round. The example went something like :" if four goblins move and pass by the character, and the character as a +2 dex bonus, he can make 3 AoOs. He can still only make one per enemy." They put it there to specify that you can only make one attack per enemy on that opportunity, because the way the example was made makes it look like this was one opportunity. In 3.5, they clarified the definition of opportunity, and each of the goblin movement in the above example provide one opportunity, and since you're allowed only one AoO per opportunity (in general, unless specified otherwise), it's clear that you can only make one AoO per enemy.
All that of course unless there's as been an errata or a feat that says you get one per enemy per round.
Eogan
12-11-07, 12:06 PM Now that you point it out: Agreed. I just checked the wording in the book and must agree that Tordak is right. My bad...
:surrender
Knightblde
12-11-07, 12:44 PM Also in 3.5, it is important to note, that you can only get one per enemy per round for them moving out of a threatened square. IE, if someone ran a circle around you, leaving 9 threatened squares, you would only get 1 AoO. This is where most people get the misconception of 1 AoO per opponent/round.

If that same enemy then casts a spell he would in fact provoke another AoO.
Legdiwena
12-11-07, 01:40 PM Also in 3.5, it is important to note, that you can only get one per enemy per round for them moving out of a threatened square. IE, if someone ran a circle around you, leaving 9 threatened squares, you would only get 1 AoO. This is where most people get the misconception of 1 AoO per opponent/round.

If that same enemy then casts a spell he would in fact provoke another AoO.

Where do you get that from? Each square he leaves is a different cause for an AoO.
Kheldren
12-11-07, 04:08 PM Where do you get that from? Each square he leaves is a different cause for an AoO.
That's in the PHB and FAQ I think (apologies for not checking sources). It follows because any one action can only provoke one AoO for the same reason - and the movement is one action so it only grants one AoO (though the person being moved round can take it for any of the threatened squares left.
The one time a single action can provoke more than one AoO would be if the mover then entered the opponent's square as entering an occupied square provokes from the occupier separately to leaving a threatened square...
(Yes at this level is does start making the head hurt.)
Legdiwena
12-11-07, 04:43 PM Moving

Moving out of a threatened square usually provokes an attack of opportunity from the threatening opponent. There are two common methods of avoiding such an attack—the 5-foot step and the withdraw action.

Since each square is moving out of a threatened square, each one would provoke an AoO.
Howie23
12-11-07, 05:33 PM Since each square is moving out of a threatened square, each one would provoke an AoO.

Movement is an explicit exception. See the top of the left column on PHB 138.
Legdiwena
12-11-07, 06:39 PM PHB 138 is talking about actions in combat, nothing about AoO.
Howie23
12-11-07, 06:50 PM PHB 138 is talking about actions in combat, nothing about AoO.

Maybe there are different editions. Mine has five lines of text finishing the section Attacks of Opportunity. If yours is about "Actions in Combat," then try p. 137. :)

From the SRD: "Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent."

David
Legdiwena
12-11-07, 07:00 PM Ah, I missed that clause.
DastardlyDan
12-12-07, 12:41 PM You can only get one AoO per opponent for any single action. Keep that in mind. If an enemy moves through a square I threaten, I get one AoO against him. If an enemy casts a spell while in a square I threaten and doesn't make his concentration check to cast defensively, I get one AoO.

If I have a weapon with reach, I threaten squares 10' away from me. If an opponent moves from one square I threaten into another, I get one attack of opportunity. If I have combat reflexes, and he THEN takes another action (that isn't movement), I get an additional attack of opportunity against him.

This is where I've been having fun with my Spiked Chain tripper. They move from 10' to 5' from me, I get an AoO. They get to 5' from me and cast a spell, I get an additional AoO because it's a different action.

If your DM is like mine and allows you to make trip attacks with an AoO, then it gets even more fun. They move from 10' to 5' away, I get an AoO, and I trip them. If I succeed, and they take another move action to stand up (standing up from prone provokes an AoO), I get another AoO because it's a different provoking action.

So, it's easier than it sounds. Read it as "limit of one attack of opportunity per provoking action" instead of "limit of one attack of opportunity per opponent per round" and it makes a bit more sense.
Orenmir
12-12-07, 12:47 PM If an enemy casts a spell while in a square I threaten and doesn't make his concentration check to cast defensively, I get one AoO.

Is that true? I thought if you cast defensively and fail your concentration check, the spell fails -- yet, you still don't provoke.
Knightblde
12-13-07, 11:52 AM It depends on what the poster means. If he is saying the caster doesn't try to cast defensively, then yes he gets an AoO. If he fails the check, than no, he just loses the spell.

Rules Compendium pg 133 paraphrased.
Knightblde
12-13-07, 11:58 AM A lot of the movement actions listed in above posts are incorrect. It is important, very important to note that LEAVING a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity.

Things that do NOT provoke -
Entering a threatened square
Moving through a threatened square (this would indicate in and out, and out is all that matters.

Also, with reguard to Combat Reflexes and AoO, Moving OUT of a threatened square and moving into a threatened square are two completly different things. Of course, most of the time this does not matter, but there are feats (Hold the Line) that make moving into a threatened square provoke an AoO (Yes, only in some cases). That is why it is VERY important to understand that the clause about moving out of a threatened square IS NOT the same a movement.

This is made a little more clear in the Rules Compendium Pg 18.
Mikron
12-14-07, 04:33 AM So if any colossal opponent would have combat reflexes, he could get 5 AAO while any PC is trying to get within melee reach?!?!:eek:
runestar
12-14-07, 05:47 AM There is a feat in an issue of dragon which lets you make up to 3 attacks per AoO, but each subsequent hit suffers a -5 to-hit penalty.
BugHunter
12-14-07, 09:12 AM So if any colossal opponent would have combat reflexes, he could get 5 AAO while any PC is trying to get within melee reach?!?!:eek:

If you are talking about 5 AoOs against one PC moving in to be able to attack the colossal opponent the PC would only take one AoO for moving out of a threatened square.
Knightblde
12-14-07, 10:18 AM So if any colossal opponent would have combat reflexes, he could get 5 AAO while any PC is trying to get within melee reach?!?!:eek:

No, that is exactly what I am not saying. BugHunter is correct.

My point was that there are other things that can provoke AoOs and the word 'moving' is not one of them. If that colossal opponent has Hold the Line, and the PC charges him, the PC provokes two attacks of opportunity. One for ENTERING a threatened square and one for LEAVING a threatened square.

If you say 'moving' only provokes one attack, you are incorrect. That is why you must understand 'leaving a threatened square' only provokes 1 attack and is COMPLETELY different than saying 'movement' only provokes one attack.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Orenmir 12-11-07, 12:26 AM	Is there a feat that allows multiple AoOs against a single target per round?
Salla 12-11-07, 12:31 AM	Combat Reflexes. There's no way to get more than one AoO per provocation, however.
Tordak 12-11-07, 08:19 AM	Combat reflexes gives you additionnal AoO, which can be use against the same opponent (or against different opponents). If you have T-W fighting, you can take the feat double hit (Miniature Handbook) which allow you to make one attack with each weapon against the same opponent at the same time (so on the same occasion), but you take the regular penalties for fighting with two weapons. The feat does not specify however if this counts for 2 seperate AoOs against your maximum AoOs for the round.
Orenmir 12-11-07, 10:39 AM	Sorry, I thought even with Combat Reflexes you were only allowed 1 AoO per creature per round. I'm not sure why I thought that. I gotta stop posting questions when I'm sleepy. Cheers, Big O
Eogan 12-11-07, 10:59 AM	Sorry, I thought even with Combat Reflexes you were only allowed 1 AoO per creature per round. I'm not sure why I thought that. I gotta stop posting questions when I'm sleepy. Probably you thought so because that was the rule in 3.0. That's one of the things that were changed in 3.5. ;)
Tordak 12-11-07, 11:36 AM	Actually, this is a misconception; the only mention of one per enemy was in the 3.0 PHB in the combat reflexes and was provided to clarify the example in the combat reflexes feat description, and even then it did not said one per enemy per round. The example went something like :" if four goblins move and pass by the character, and the character as a +2 dex bonus, he can make 3 AoOs. He can still only make one per enemy." They put it there to specify that you can only make one attack per enemy on that opportunity, because the way the example was made makes it look like this was one opportunity. In 3.5, they clarified the definition of opportunity, and each of the goblin movement in the above example provide one opportunity, and since you're allowed only one AoO per opportunity (in general, unless specified otherwise), it's clear that you can only make one AoO per enemy. All that of course unless there's as been an errata or a feat that says you get one per enemy per round.
Eogan 12-11-07, 12:06 PM	Now that you point it out: Agreed. I just checked the wording in the book and must agree that Tordak is right. My bad... :surrender
Knightblde 12-11-07, 12:44 PM	Also in 3.5, it is important to note, that you can only get one per enemy per round for them moving out of a threatened square. IE, if someone ran a circle around you, leaving 9 threatened squares, you would only get 1 AoO. This is where most people get the misconception of 1 AoO per opponent/round. If that same enemy then casts a spell he would in fact provoke another AoO.
Legdiwena 12-11-07, 01:40 PM	Also in 3.5, it is important to note, that you can only get one per enemy per round for them moving out of a threatened square. IE, if someone ran a circle around you, leaving 9 threatened squares, you would only get 1 AoO. This is where most people get the misconception of 1 AoO per opponent/round. If that same enemy then casts a spell he would in fact provoke another AoO. Where do you get that from? Each square he leaves is a different cause for an AoO.
Kheldren 12-11-07, 04:08 PM	Where do you get that from? Each square he leaves is a different cause for an AoO. That's in the PHB and FAQ I think (apologies for not checking sources). It follows because any one action can only provoke one AoO for the same reason - and the movement is one action so it only grants one AoO (though the person being moved round can take it for any of the threatened squares left. The one time a single action can provoke more than one AoO would be if the mover then entered the opponent's square as entering an occupied square provokes from the occupier separately to leaving a threatened square... (Yes at this level is does start making the head hurt.)
Legdiwena 12-11-07, 04:43 PM	Moving Moving out of a threatened square usually provokes an attack of opportunity from the threatening opponent. There are two common methods of avoiding such an attack—the 5-foot step and the withdraw action. Since each square is moving out of a threatened square, each one would provoke an AoO.
Howie23 12-11-07, 05:33 PM	Since each square is moving out of a threatened square, each one would provoke an AoO. Movement is an explicit exception. See the top of the left column on PHB 138.
Legdiwena 12-11-07, 06:39 PM	PHB 138 is talking about actions in combat, nothing about AoO.
Howie23 12-11-07, 06:50 PM	PHB 138 is talking about actions in combat, nothing about AoO. Maybe there are different editions. Mine has five lines of text finishing the section Attacks of Opportunity. If yours is about "Actions in Combat," then try p. 137. :) From the SRD: "Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent." David
Legdiwena 12-11-07, 07:00 PM	Ah, I missed that clause.
DastardlyDan 12-12-07, 12:41 PM	You can only get one AoO per opponent for any single action. Keep that in mind. If an enemy moves through a square I threaten, I get one AoO against him. If an enemy casts a spell while in a square I threaten and doesn't make his concentration check to cast defensively, I get one AoO. If I have a weapon with reach, I threaten squares 10' away from me. If an opponent moves from one square I threaten into another, I get one attack of opportunity. If I have combat reflexes, and he THEN takes another action (that isn't movement), I get an additional attack of opportunity against him. This is where I've been having fun with my Spiked Chain tripper. They move from 10' to 5' from me, I get an AoO. They get to 5' from me and cast a spell, I get an additional AoO because it's a different action. If your DM is like mine and allows you to make trip attacks with an AoO, then it gets even more fun. They move from 10' to 5' away, I get an AoO, and I trip them. If I succeed, and they take another move action to stand up (standing up from prone provokes an AoO), I get another AoO because it's a different provoking action. So, it's easier than it sounds. Read it as "limit of one attack of opportunity per provoking action" instead of "limit of one attack of opportunity per opponent per round" and it makes a bit more sense.
Orenmir 12-12-07, 12:47 PM	If an enemy casts a spell while in a square I threaten and doesn't make his concentration check to cast defensively, I get one AoO. Is that true? I thought if you cast defensively and fail your concentration check, the spell fails -- yet, you still don't provoke.
Knightblde 12-13-07, 11:52 AM	It depends on what the poster means. If he is saying the caster doesn't try to cast defensively, then yes he gets an AoO. If he fails the check, than no, he just loses the spell. Rules Compendium pg 133 paraphrased.
Knightblde 12-13-07, 11:58 AM	A lot of the movement actions listed in above posts are incorrect. It is important, very important to note that LEAVING a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity. Things that do NOT provoke - Entering a threatened square Moving through a threatened square (this would indicate in and out, and out is all that matters. Also, with reguard to Combat Reflexes and AoO, Moving OUT of a threatened square and moving into a threatened square are two completly different things. Of course, most of the time this does not matter, but there are feats (Hold the Line) that make moving into a threatened square provoke an AoO (Yes, only in some cases). That is why it is VERY important to understand that the clause about moving out of a threatened square IS NOT the same a movement. This is made a little more clear in the Rules Compendium Pg 18.
Mikron 12-14-07, 04:33 AM	So if any colossal opponent would have combat reflexes, he could get 5 AAO while any PC is trying to get within melee reach?!?!:eek:
runestar 12-14-07, 05:47 AM	There is a feat in an issue of dragon which lets you make up to 3 attacks per AoO, but each subsequent hit suffers a -5 to-hit penalty.
BugHunter 12-14-07, 09:12 AM	So if any colossal opponent would have combat reflexes, he could get 5 AAO while any PC is trying to get within melee reach?!?!:eek: If you are talking about 5 AoOs against one PC moving in to be able to attack the colossal opponent the PC would only take one AoO for moving out of a threatened square.
Knightblde 12-14-07, 10:18 AM	So if any colossal opponent would have combat reflexes, he could get 5 AAO while any PC is trying to get within melee reach?!?!:eek: No, that is exactly what I am not saying. BugHunter is correct. My point was that there are other things that can provoke AoOs and the word 'moving' is not one of them. If that colossal opponent has Hold the Line, and the PC charges him, the PC provokes two attacks of opportunity. One for ENTERING a threatened square and one for LEAVING a threatened square. If you say 'moving' only provokes one attack, you are incorrect. That is why you must understand 'leaving a threatened square' only provokes 1 attack and is COMPLETELY different than saying 'movement' only provokes one attack.