Multiweapon/Multiattack and a Thri-kreen Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Multiweapon/Multiattack and a Thri-kreen Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ulandorf_TheBlue
03-28-07, 04:48 PM I've been scanning through some of the race forums and came upon a post about thri-kreen monks with multiweapon fighting and multiattack feats along with flurry of blows having insane amount of attacks at little penalty. I'm pretty sure imp. and greater is needed as level increases, but just not entirely understanding how many attacks one such monk would have at any given lvl...anybody help break this down for me?
tarkin
03-28-07, 05:24 PM Officially monk flurry stacks with the natural attacks/TWF/MWF feats, as long as the monk has some limb open for using his flurry stuff.

A 15th level monk (max # of attacks) has 5 attacks when flurrying, no penalties: +11/+11/+11/+6/+1

He could use all his natural attacks, assuming the DM did not rule that his natural attack did not use all his limbs up That is, a monk with a bite (head), two claws (arms), and a rake (two legs) would have to sacrifice one set of natural attacks to give him a a limb to do the monk flurry with.

But assuming you are just using a bite attack, that works fine. You are sacrificing your claws to gain the extra weapon attacks anyway. So one arm with monk flurry, 3 with MWF weapons, and a bite. The bite in as a secondary natural attack (even if normally it is a primary attack), at -5.

11/11/11/6/6(bite)/1

(Note, a feat could move that -5 penalty to -2, and another could move it to -0, if you were willing to spend feats for that).

Now you have 4 arms and Multi-weapon fighting feat.

That adds 3 extra attacks (first is used for the monk flurry), but puts in a penalty of -2 to all your attacks, you are now at:

9/9/9/9(o)/9(o)/9(o)/4/4(b)/-1

Now add in Improved Multi-weapon fighing feat (found in Epic handbook, but not an epic feat).

9/9/9/9(o)/9(o)/9(o)/4/4(b)/4(o)/4(o)/4(o)/-1

That is 12 attacks.

Now, once you hit a BAB of 15 (5 more monk levels or take 4 levels of fighter) then you can add in Greater Multi-Weapon Fighting for 3 more off hand attacks (15 total)

13/13/13/13(o)/13(o)/13(o)/8/8(b)/8(o)/8(o)/8(o)/3/3(o)/3(o)/3(o)

Get a weapon of Speed for ONE extra attack = 16 total. (A Power DM might let you use 4 of them and get four extra attacks, but lets be conservative here).
13/13/13/13(s)/13(o)/13(o)/13(o)/8/8(b)/8(o)/8(o)/8(o)/3/3(o)/3(o)/3(o)

Also, if you take Rapid Shot, you can use one of your off hand attacks to throw a dagger, adding one extra attack, but at a -2 penalty to all your current attacks (probably not really worth it, but lets do it anyway), for 17 total attacks.

11/11/11/11(s)/11(o)/11(o)/11(o)/11(r)/6/6(b)/6(o)/6(o)/6(o)/1/1(o)/1(o)/1(o)

P.S. Also, if dealing witha Power DM, and you also happen to be a 1/2 Dragon, you could take the feat Rapid Strike twice, and claim it lets you get two more claw attacks, but most DM's will not let you do that, as you are not using claws, but instead are using off hand weapons.

Including the 3 additional Weapons of speed, and if your DM ruled that you can do the monk flurry with your elbows/knees so your main hand can ALSO be used for off hand attacks, that would be +6 more attacks or 23 total, if your DM was very generous.
Ulandorf_TheBlue
03-28-07, 05:36 PM awesome thanks for the breakdown...
tetebetson
03-28-07, 08:34 PM but monks have no off hand penalties there is no such thing as off hand for a monk so you dont need multy wepon fighting
Xavon
03-28-07, 09:42 PM but monks have no off hand penalties there is no such thing as off hand for a monk so you dont need multy wepon fighting

Incorrect. The default assumption is that the flurrying Monk is using all available limbs, but that is fluff, not crunch. By crunch, the Monk could be making all his flurry attacks with one hand, one foot, or even his head. The FAQ and a strict reading of RAW both allow Flurry of Blows and TWF/MWF to stack.
Zumarai
03-29-07, 04:03 AM 18th level Thri-Kreen Monk with a 10 Str, Greater Multi-Weapon Fighting, and Multiattack.

Full Attack: flurry of blows +13/+13/+13/+8/+3 and unarmed strike +13/+8/+3 and unarmed strike +13/+8/+3 and unarmed strike +13/+8/+3 and bite +13.

15 attacks per round.
Ulandorf_TheBlue
03-31-07, 10:30 AM where's the -2 penalty Zumarai?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ulandorf_TheBlue 03-28-07, 04:48 PM	I've been scanning through some of the race forums and came upon a post about thri-kreen monks with multiweapon fighting and multiattack feats along with flurry of blows having insane amount of attacks at little penalty. I'm pretty sure imp. and greater is needed as level increases, but just not entirely understanding how many attacks one such monk would have at any given lvl...anybody help break this down for me?
tarkin 03-28-07, 05:24 PM	Officially monk flurry stacks with the natural attacks/TWF/MWF feats, as long as the monk has some limb open for using his flurry stuff. A 15th level monk (max # of attacks) has 5 attacks when flurrying, no penalties: +11/+11/+11/+6/+1 He could use all his natural attacks, assuming the DM did not rule that his natural attack did not use all his limbs up That is, a monk with a bite (head), two claws (arms), and a rake (two legs) would have to sacrifice one set of natural attacks to give him a a limb to do the monk flurry with. But assuming you are just using a bite attack, that works fine. You are sacrificing your claws to gain the extra weapon attacks anyway. So one arm with monk flurry, 3 with MWF weapons, and a bite. The bite in as a secondary natural attack (even if normally it is a primary attack), at -5. 11/11/11/6/6(bite)/1 (Note, a feat could move that -5 penalty to -2, and another could move it to -0, if you were willing to spend feats for that). Now you have 4 arms and Multi-weapon fighting feat. That adds 3 extra attacks (first is used for the monk flurry), but puts in a penalty of -2 to all your attacks, you are now at: 9/9/9/9(o)/9(o)/9(o)/4/4(b)/-1 Now add in Improved Multi-weapon fighing feat (found in Epic handbook, but not an epic feat). 9/9/9/9(o)/9(o)/9(o)/4/4(b)/4(o)/4(o)/4(o)/-1 That is 12 attacks. Now, once you hit a BAB of 15 (5 more monk levels or take 4 levels of fighter) then you can add in Greater Multi-Weapon Fighting for 3 more off hand attacks (15 total) 13/13/13/13(o)/13(o)/13(o)/8/8(b)/8(o)/8(o)/8(o)/3/3(o)/3(o)/3(o) Get a weapon of Speed for ONE extra attack = 16 total. (A Power DM might let you use 4 of them and get four extra attacks, but lets be conservative here). 13/13/13/13(s)/13(o)/13(o)/13(o)/8/8(b)/8(o)/8(o)/8(o)/3/3(o)/3(o)/3(o) Also, if you take Rapid Shot, you can use one of your off hand attacks to throw a dagger, adding one extra attack, but at a -2 penalty to all your current attacks (probably not really worth it, but lets do it anyway), for 17 total attacks. 11/11/11/11(s)/11(o)/11(o)/11(o)/11(r)/6/6(b)/6(o)/6(o)/6(o)/1/1(o)/1(o)/1(o) P.S. Also, if dealing witha Power DM, and you also happen to be a 1/2 Dragon, you could take the feat Rapid Strike twice, and claim it lets you get two more claw attacks, but most DM's will not let you do that, as you are not using claws, but instead are using off hand weapons. Including the 3 additional Weapons of speed, and if your DM ruled that you can do the monk flurry with your elbows/knees so your main hand can ALSO be used for off hand attacks, that would be +6 more attacks or 23 total, if your DM was very generous.
Ulandorf_TheBlue 03-28-07, 05:36 PM	awesome thanks for the breakdown...
tetebetson 03-28-07, 08:34 PM	but monks have no off hand penalties there is no such thing as off hand for a monk so you dont need multy wepon fighting
Xavon 03-28-07, 09:42 PM	but monks have no off hand penalties there is no such thing as off hand for a monk so you dont need multy wepon fighting Incorrect. The default assumption is that the flurrying Monk is using all available limbs, but that is fluff, not crunch. By crunch, the Monk could be making all his flurry attacks with one hand, one foot, or even his head. The FAQ and a strict reading of RAW both allow Flurry of Blows and TWF/MWF to stack.
Zumarai 03-29-07, 04:03 AM	18th level Thri-Kreen Monk with a 10 Str, Greater Multi-Weapon Fighting, and Multiattack. Full Attack: flurry of blows +13/+13/+13/+8/+3 and unarmed strike +13/+8/+3 and unarmed strike +13/+8/+3 and unarmed strike +13/+8/+3 and bite +13. 15 attacks per round.
Ulandorf_TheBlue 03-31-07, 10:30 AM	where's the -2 penalty Zumarai?