Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Celas Evriamytholin 05-05-07, 03:11 PM	Hey all! One of my characters is going to take some ranks in Knowledge (Local), and we are playing in a few hours. I was just wondering if you had to take different Knowledge (Local) skills for various regions. For example, we spent most of our adventures in Sharn, a few in Zilargo and now we're on Lake Galifar at the port town of Xandrar (In Eberron). If I wanted to take Knowledge (Local), would I have to take ; 4 ranks in Knowledge (Sharn), 4 ranks in Knowledge (Xandrar)... Or do I just take 8 ranks in Knowledge (Local), and it works for any locality I am in?
AtmaWeapon 05-05-07, 03:17 PM	Hey all! One of my characters is going to take some ranks in Knowledge (Local), and we are playing in a few hours. I was just wondering if you had to take different Knowledge (Local) skills for various regions. For example, we spent most of our adventures in Sharn, a few in Zilargo and now we're on Lake Galifar at the port town of Xandrar (In Eberron). If I wanted to take Knowledge (Local), would I have to take ; 4 ranks in Knowledge (Sharn), 4 ranks in Knowledge (Xandrar)... Or do I just take 8 ranks in Knowledge (Local), and it works for any locality I am in? Generally, it works subject to however your DM decides it works. I didn't find anything in my ECS that suggested it behaved differently then the PHB.
EvilVegan 05-05-07, 03:19 PM	Yes, but how it works in the PHB is the question. . . The rules don't specify that you have to pick a Locality. I have seen at least one example NPC with "Knowledge (Local: Thay)" which leads me to believe that at least one person thinks it should be specific.
Celas Evriamytholin 05-05-07, 03:21 PM	Lol! I was using Eberron cities as examples... I am indeed wondering how the basic mechanics of it work for the PHB. I think in 3.0 you had to choose different skills per region, and in 3.5 it doesn't specify. I have also seen many NPCs with specified localities, but only in 3.0 books. (But I haven't seen many NPC stat blocks for 3.5 either) Please shed some light on this =)
AtmaWeapon 05-05-07, 03:29 PM	Yes, but how it works in the PHB is the question. . . The rules don't specify that you have to pick a Locality. I have seen at least one example NPC with "Knowledge (Local: Thay)" which leads me to believe that at least one person thinks it should be specific. That is because in FR, Knowledge(Local) does work a bit differently. I didn't bring it up because of potential confusion In FR, 2 ranks in Knowledge(Local-Region) entitles you to take regional feats from that location without having your PC actually originate there. Again, it depends on the campaign. In Living Greyhawk, you have to pick a region. In FR, you have to pick a region. I can't find anything in the PHB or ECS that says you do at a casual glance, so I'd assume you do not. It's probably assumed that your PC is somewhat of a "social butterfly" and picks up on the local customs quicker then others.
MCage 05-05-07, 04:19 PM	Personally i think it shouldnt apply to a region or if it does the knowledge for Humanoids should apply elsewhere, cause if i want to know how many toes a man has i have to have either knowledge local or arguably heal (as you would know about toe related injuries)
EvilVegan 05-05-07, 04:20 PM	Or you could look at your feet.
ScipioX 05-06-07, 02:07 AM	The skill itself doesn't say that you have to pick a specific region. Some of the writers of campaign sourcebooks seem to have assumed that you pick a region, but you really shouldn't. Just compare it to other similar skills. When you take knowledge (planes) do you have to specify a particular plane? Of course not. The breadth of knowledge covered by a skill is enourmous. There's little reason to gimp the knowledge local skill when none of the other knowledge skills are similarly handicapped. Basically, if you do limit it, nobody will ever take it, except as a flavor or if your campaign is very limited in geographic scope.
Vegepygmy 05-06-07, 12:28 PM	The skill itself doesn't say that you have to pick a specific region. Some of the writers of campaign sourcebooks seem to have assumed that you pick a region, but you really shouldn't.They may assume it because they're used to playing in the Forgotten Realms, where it is explicitly called out as working that way. Or maybe they're writing sourcebooks specifically for the Forgotten Realms. But I agree that it's a lousy way to handle Knowledge (Local).
Gnarl 05-06-07, 03:16 PM	They may assume it because they're used to playing in the Forgotten Realms, where it is explicitly called out as working that way. Or maybe they're writing sourcebooks specifically for the Forgotten Realms. But I agree that it's a lousy way to handle Knowledge (Local). Does it say so in a 3.5 book or only in the FR Campaign Setting?
Grave_Accomplice 05-07-07, 12:08 AM	Just compare it to other similar skills. When you take knowledge (planes) do you have to specify a particular plane? Of course not. The breadth of knowledge covered by a skill is enourmous. There's little reason to gimp the knowledge local skill when none of the other knowledge skills are similarly handicapped. Knowledge is a matter of degrees though. Knowing about various planes might not let you in on the details of the City of Brass' political climate. If anything, those with Know (local [city of brass]) would be allowed a lower DC for the check. A character with Knowledge (USA) will be able to tell you a variety of useful things about said area, including when Hawaii was annexed, some history of it before and during it's occupation, etc. Those with Know (Hawaii) would know more about its past culture and how it effects its current climate.
Vegepygmy 05-07-07, 02:07 AM	Does it say so in a 3.5 book or only in the FR Campaign Setting?It says so in the Player's Guide to Faerun (a 3.5 book), if I'm not mistaken.
Nadaka 05-07-07, 02:32 AM	I never liked knowledge local. In 3.0 it was pointless except for FR regional feats, and in 3.5 it treads on the toes of bardic knowledge. I have removed it from my game and replaced it with knowledge civics, this covers law, punishment, govornment, legal system, etc. You take a modifier on your skill check depending on your familiarity with the area.
Luis_Dragunov 05-07-07, 03:33 AM	I'd rather do a Gather Information when I arrive to a locale than spend countless skill points on a Knowledge (Local) when my DM might just say "And you finally slay the Troll Lord! now, you head off to XYZville!" and my skill is rendered useless.
Grave_Accomplice 05-07-07, 04:54 AM	I'd rather do a Gather Information when I arrive to a locale than spend countless skill points on a Knowledge (Local) when my DM might just say "And you finally slay the Troll Lord! now, you head off to XYZville!" and my skill is rendered useless. Gather Info won't work if the locals can't or won't talk to you. It also takes a day. Know (Local) can be used without the wait. There's a reason I don't use Common in my games. :) The skill meshes well with certain campaigns, especially those that cross several specific borders. Knowledge (local) can help suppliment a rangers specialization in favored enemy, as one example. Playing a Birthright campaign (there are several non-WotC conversions) is another. In my campaign we use it for large ships and space stations, as many are cities in their own right. It's not a useless skill, just one that requires more role playing involvement than actual mechanics to be effective. Besides, per the SRD Know (local) gives you a +2 synergy bonus to Gather Info.
Luis_Dragunov 05-07-07, 06:01 AM	Well, the skill Knowledge (Local) is useless in any way you can think of it. If the single skill can give you information about any locale you go to, makes you wonder how is it that, any town or region you go to, you suddenly know it as if you had lived there your whole life. If you take separate skills, it makes your 12 ranks on Knowledge: Kingdom A as soon as you move to the next region.
Vaelan 05-07-07, 07:28 AM	If the single skill can give you information about any locale you go to, makes you wonder how is it that, any town or region you go to, you suddenly know it as if you had lived there your whole life. No, it doesn't make me wonder because I bothered to read the description of Knowledge skills before shooting my mouth off about them. I would recommend that you do the same. Also, you're grossly overstating the knowledge that is granted by the skill. You also don't seem to know the difference between Knowledge(Local) and Gather Information. Once again I would recommend that you actually bother to read the skills before making any judgments.
Luis_Dragunov 05-07-07, 08:43 AM	No, it doesn't make me wonder because I bothered to read the description of Knowledge skills before shooting my mouth off about them. I would recommend that you do the same. Also, you're grossly overstating the knowledge that is granted by the skill. You also don't seem to know the difference between Knowledge(Local) and Gather Information. Once again I would recommend that you actually bother to read the skills before making any judgments. Whoa, it seems that the Knowledge (Local) skill is your boyfriend, seeing how fiercely you defend it's absolute usefulness. But, very well, I went and double-checked, just in case I was wrong, and all it says under "Knowledge (Local)" skill is that it refers to local legends, personalities, customs and, for some reason, stuff about humanoids. Now, it seems that it is clear to you that the Knowledge (Local) skill has an obvious reason to cover ALL the regions of ALL the land, all such information a mere DC10~15 away. How? It says nothing of such justification in the Knowledge skill entry. And if you apply it only to specific places, then Gather Information skill cuts it because all you have to do is spend a single day asking about local stuff around town and you can use this skill ANYWHERE with the added bonus of having other uses.
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Nadaka 05-07-07, 10:55 AM	OMG! That has to be the first Octo-Post I have ever seen.
Luis_Dragunov 05-07-07, 11:03 AM	Ack! Thanks for noticing. And that, kids, is why you don't hit refresh when your posting crashes mid-way.
Witch 05-07-07, 11:11 AM	Knowledge (Local) applying everywhere would be the most stupid, senseless thing ever, contrary to the very nature of the word "local".
Vegepygmy 05-07-07, 01:00 PM	Knowledge (Local) applying everywhere would be the most stupid, senseless thing ever, contrary to the very nature of the word "local".That's why calling the skill Knowledge (Local) was pretty stupid.
Vegepygmy 05-07-07, 01:03 PM	But, very well, I went and double-checked, just in case I was wrong, and all it says under "Knowledge (Local)" skill is that it refers to local legends, personalities, customs and, for some reason, stuff about humanoids.So now do you see what was wrong with your statement that "you suddenly know it as if you had lived there your whole life"?
Grave_Accomplice 05-07-07, 01:44 PM	Well, the skill Knowledge (Local) is useless in any way you can think of it. If the single skill can give you information about any locale you go to, makes you wonder how is it that, any town or region you go to, you suddenly know it as if you had lived there your whole life. If you take separate skills, it makes your 12 ranks on Knowledge: Kingdom A as soon as you move to the next region. Not all camapigns move on to another kingdom.
Grave_Accomplice 05-07-07, 01:48 PM	And if you apply it only to specific places, then Gather Information skill cuts it because all you have to do is spend a single day asking about local stuff around town and you can use this skill ANYWHERE with the added bonus of having other uses. Again, this is not an absolute. Using Gather Info in a lizard man's swamp village when you can't speak to them doesn't work. The ranger with Know (local [name of area]) doesn't have this limitation. Again, it's a roleplaying (ie DM) specific skill. It's the same with auto cannon toting street sams in Shadowrun; yeah, it's better than a pistol, but there are times you simply can't use it.
RobertDD 05-07-07, 06:06 PM	The way we play it: be somewhere for about 60 days, really live in the place, walk the markets, eat in the inn, you get the feel, and then you get the right to make the die roll to see if you happen to know something that is considered local knowledge, DM's discretion if it makes sense at all. It gives an abstact way to differentiate between the observant, always listening and interacting character and the quiet introvert, or whatever other reason your characters might have to pick up or not pick up some local knowledge. Works for us....
Gold Halberdier 05-08-07, 03:23 AM	Yes, I should think. Though exactly how 'local' is 'local' will vary depending on your DM. 'Local' in some campaigns might be a whole kingdom, while in others it may be just a town and the surrounding countryside. YDMMV And it definitely isn't useless if you're playing a local campaign. Knowledge of the personalities, relationships, and quirks of notable people in your hometown can be quite powerful if applied properly. But putting skill ranks into it is a commitment- it means that you actually pay attention to the stories, legends, and people around you. If you don't care about the townspeople, you might know (DC 10) the Innkeeper is a Wizard. If you pay attention you might know that (DC 15) the Innkeeper is a wizard, and the fat cat that's always lazing on the end of the bar is his familiar, and that anything you say in it's presence may be held against you later. If you are a curious bastard you might know (DC 20) that the cat loves fresh-caught herring, and that in exchange for a small plate of said still-twitching fish the Kitty will put in a good word for you with it's master. And if you roll well (DC25) (or were present for said conversation) you may also know that the reason Sgt. Bryant of the Watch is afraid of to look at the Innkeeper's daughter is that said Innkeeper once threatened to turn him into "a pile of Ambulatory Goo that remembers it's previous life." Ah, those were the days. Flesh to Goo, the ultimate threat. I had a rather obsessive DM once that actually wrote up different background sheets on the town's inhabitants depending on the level of local knowledge the character had. And since he would include the other PCs if they were 'Notable' enough, if was pretty sweet. My overly curious Rogue/Bard- wannabe knew everybody, and it seemed, damn near everything that went on in that village.
Adamaro23 05-08-07, 03:39 AM	just thought i might point out, on the Eberron official character sheet theres a place for the region you're from: ______________ region of origin
Celas Evriamytholin 05-08-07, 11:58 AM	Thanks for the input everyone. My DM decided to just leave it at one skill, saying that since its more of a roleplaying skill than anything, and since I bothered to take it, I should be rewarded for it. Its just another way for him to reward Roleplaying. As a sidenote, a knowledge (local) can also be used to give yourself a general outlook of a little town or village before you actually get near it. Or of a person before you go meet them, if you don't want to go around gallivanting and pumping information out of people. I personnally took gather info AND knowledge local. No biggie. Diversifies it a bit. To each their own. Have a good one yall! Thanks again!
Orange20SiderOfDeath 05-08-07, 01:23 PM	My opinion, knowledge local can be used in any area freely unless stated otherwise, like forgotten relms. Reason being if you cut one kind of knowledge then you have to start second guessing alot of other knowledge skills. Example, If you go to another local that has odd buildings you "never seen" before, you couldnt make a Arch & Engineering check? What if it was your first time in a big city and you see a aqueduct for your first time, whould a character just stare at it and scratch there head if he had ranks in Architecture & engineering, sounds off. Lets try Geography, so all you are good at is knowing whatsoever is immediately around you? Sounds off considering you use it to navigate a boat over hundress of miles of flat open oceans. Lets try history now: If this skill was tied down to one place the whole world wouldn't know anything about there neighbors past, again very odd. Now nature: Lets say you lived in a plains grassland area all your life up to the point before you became an adventurer and now you have to go into some far off woods to take care of a green dragon. All the way to the woods you could tell fellow party members anything about the plains but soon as you step foot inside the forest everything becomes alien knowledge? Again, seems off. O.k. how about Nobility? Now nobody knows who rules where. Say goodbye to warring city states and what-have-you. Every king would think they ruled the entire planet. Religion: its easy to see how changes in religion relate to changes in the environment. I'll finish up by saying this, knowledge is what you know and if your character is a anthropologist, shown by his ranks in knowlege local skill, he/she shouldn't be penalised for it being a new area. After all in the D&D world books are filled with spells, one hopes that some books are filled knowledgeable facts.
Kursk 05-08-07, 02:15 PM	I was just wondering if you had to take different Knowledge (Local) skills for various regions. If it applied to ALL localities it would be called, Knowledge (global).
hiryuu 05-08-07, 02:46 PM	It should more properly be called Knowledge (streetwise), considering the uses it gives you.
balard 05-08-07, 02:54 PM	I agree with Orange 20 Sider of Death. All teh other skills are abrangent. If you prefer just tag Know(civilization) e be happy. Im my game Local is for the whole word and even than PCs dont get it.
SolkaTruesilver 05-09-07, 07:14 PM	My DM and I came up with a much more useful variation of this skill. I was a dwarf, and we created the Knowledge (Dwarf) skill. So I could use that skill for anything (geography, religion, history, nobility, etc...) that is related to dwarves. Much more fun to use, and more RP-flavored. I'm the Dwarven Encyclopedic :cool:
CryoSilver 05-09-07, 07:25 PM	I never felt bad about taking 1 rank in Knowledge (local) for five or six regions. That's all I ever really needed. FR had that spell that gave you +10 on a skill check, and I'd just use that.
neilthrun 05-09-07, 08:38 PM	The skill itself doesn't say that you have to pick a specific region. Some of the writers of campaign sourcebooks seem to have assumed that you pick a region, but you really shouldn't. Just compare it to other similar skills. When you take knowledge (planes) do you have to specify a particular plane? Of course not. The breadth of knowledge covered by a skill is enourmous. There's little reason to gimp the knowledge local skill when none of the other knowledge skills are similarly handicapped. Basically, if you do limit it, nobody will ever take it, except as a flavor or if your campaign is very limited in geographic scope. I once tried to argue my ranks in Knowledge(The planes) could tell me things about the material plane, its cities and general information. The DM agreed, and with my knowledge checks I learned all sorts of things about the general make up of the material plane(solar systems, stars, planets, earth is a planet with lots of water) but nothing, to my chargrin, about the large metropolis I had just entered. It was good for a laugh. "Quaezoar, what do you know about *large town*?" *rolls knowledge the planes check* "The earth is a small planet, that is made up of mostly water, and orbits around a sun. Living creatures live on it aswell." The party wasn't too impressed.
CryoSilver 05-09-07, 10:08 PM	Btw, Solka, I was not the one to invent the Ego Pad. I just happened to be the most arrogant jerk (other than V_T perhaps) at the time the issue of them came up. I most certainly remember several members with them before me.
dmg_roller 05-10-07, 12:44 AM	Didnt read the rest of the responses, so if someone already suggested it sorry...I allow it for any locality, provided the character can make a gather information check at an appropiate dc for the temperment of the locals. Always worked for me.
Fiddletink 05-10-07, 04:25 AM	I have to agree that Knowledge (Civilization) or Knowledge (Streetwise) would have been better terms for how the skill actually works. But as Written No, it is not region-specific unless in a specific setting that states otherwise. Gather Info as repeatedly stated, only works when you have a day, and the ability to communicate with the locals. Additionally, if trying to find about things like say... the lycanthropes that are rumored to be secretly controlling the town you just came to, Gather Info is a Great way to ensure your party gets ambushed while they sleep (note- Epic Gather Info... +20 to the DC to not draw attention to yourself for snooping around)